#meta 2018-01-04

2018-01-04 UTC
[eddie], tantek, sebsel, [mrkrndvs], [miklb] and tantek_ joined the channel
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tantek I think if someone uses jargon in the main channel, and you're able to successfully ask 3 "what is" questions in a row from their jargon that have no wiki answer, you should win a badge or something :)
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matienzo.org edited /Template:anarchivist (-6) (view diff)
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schmarty aaronpk: for IWC Baltimore we discussed coordinating the intros and demos so folks with established indieweb sites are demoing some of the most compelling features
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aaronpk yes probably a good plan!
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schmarty i was thinking about starting /2018/Baltimore/Intros and add a #Planning section. how's that sound?
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aaronpk perfect
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aaronpk there should be some old introduction pages to copy from
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aaronpk https://indieweb.org/2016/Nuremberg/Introductions
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schmarty also, i'd like to nominate you to lead the building blocks time, if you are willing
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aaronpk hm not sure which is actualyl the latest iteration https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?search=Introductions&title=Special%3ASearch&fulltext=1
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aaronpk building blocks as an early session?
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schmarty i see 2017/Austin/Introductions in the list as a summary of the notes from the session
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schmarty https://2018.indieweb.org/baltimore#schedule shows 10am intros + demos followed by 10:45 IndieWeb Building Blocks before session planning at 11:30.
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Loqi Digital Harbor Foundation Tech Center
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aaronpk oh we can do that :)
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schmarty i think it makes sense as a way to explain what folks just saw in the demos, and cover important things that weren't in the demos. hopefully as a way to drive ideas for sessions.
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aaronpk yeah for sure
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aaronpk oh look I have an outline already :) https://indieweb.org/2017/Austin/building-blocks
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[kevinmarks] I like the idea of doing the demo then showing what is going on in protocols, but I haven't found a good way to do that yet.
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schmarty aaronpk: ha, that outline is a mix of past years' Introduction session outlines + building blocks content.
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aaronpk yep lol
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aaronpk I can clean it up a bit for an actual building blocks session
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Zegnat That Nuremberg intro page looks pretty good.
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Zegnat Though something sknebel and I discussed after Berlin: somewhere very much at the start of the intro a photographing policy needs to be included.
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Zegnat Berlin had at least 1 visitor who asked not to be in focus (accidental background captures in photos was fine), and we weren’t sure there was ever a clear enough mention of the equipment in the room. E.g. jkphl had a GoPro running to timelapse the entire event and that was never specifically called out.
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aaronpk oh yeah, along with our video/irc stuff early on. I always forget to mention that until later in the intros
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aaronpk ha I didn't see that video!
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GWG The policy should be: If you are at the event, it is assumed you consent to being photographed in attendance unless you specifically ask.
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martymcgui.re created /2018/Baltimore/Introductions (+2097) "create from a mix of past IWC Introductions and Demos pages" (view diff)
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Zegnat I am not sure the timelapse was actually published.
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Zegnat But it made sknebel and I think about the event policy globally in any case.
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schmarty okay, initial introductions page created, including Demos section and a Demos Planning.
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schmarty !tell aaronpk,gwg,gRegorLove please take a look at /2018/Baltimore/Introductions#Demos_Planning and add yourself when you get a chance
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk whee
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GWG schmarty: I should demo something?
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schmarty GWG: take a look! ;}
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Zegnat https://indieweb.org/Leaders - also has a point about making sure to point out points of contact for the Code of Conduct. Happy to see that already on the Introductions page :D
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aaronparecki.com edited /2018/Baltimore/Introductions (+155) "/* Demos Planning */" (view diff)
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schmarty GWG: but in seriousness, yes, please. one thing i have noticed at past indiewebcamps is that introductory demos time is usually uncoordinated even though folks in the room have lots of compelling core building blocks working
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GWG I may bring back Abbott and Costello
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GWG http://mention2.n9n.us/
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schmarty aaronpk: thanks for adding yourself! it's an unordered list, so you definitely don't have to go first. :}
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schmarty !tell eddie please take a look at /2018/Baltimore/Introductions#Demos_Planning and add yourself when you get a chance!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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david.shanske.com edited /2018/Baltimore/Introductions (+103) "/* Demos Planning */" (view diff)
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tantek you have to practice the demo so it is super smooth, then slow yourself down so you explain with each UI step what is happening
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tantek so people are staring at the screens between steps long enough to absorb them and understand how they relate
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tantek either lots of steps, or rushing steps, loses people
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eddiehinkle.com edited /2018/Baltimore/Introductions (+286) "/* Demos Planning */ +me" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2017/Nuremberg (+89) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2017/Düsseldorf (+89) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove What is photography policy?
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Loqi gRegorLove: schmarty left you a message 3 hours, 9 minutes ago: please take a look at /2018/Baltimore/Introductions#Demos_Planning and add yourself when you get a chance
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "photography policy" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "photography policy is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek gRegorLove: do you have a specific example or is that from out of the blue?
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tantek or is it code of conduct related?
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gRegorLove https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2018-01-04#t1515079673997700
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Loqi [Zegnat] Though something sknebel and I discussed after Berlin: somewhere very much at the start of the intro a photographing policy needs to be included.
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gRegorLove http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Photography documents an example policy from WisCon
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gregorlove.com edited /2018/Baltimore/Introductions (+211) "/* Demos Planning */ +me" (view diff)
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[tantek] Was there an actual incident at Berlin or is this preventative?
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aaronpk not "incident" per se, but there was someone who requested to not be photographed
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[tantek] That counts
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aaronpk I would say there was an "occurrence" :)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2017 (+89) "/* Photos */" (view diff)
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gRegorLove I think it could be part of the CoC, yes. Updating wiki with some examples
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[tantek] I think we should capture the current culture of indiewebcamps, which is that we often/sometimes have a photographer or organizers taking photos to post of the event
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[tantek] That’s worthy of being up front about
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[tantek] And then giving people an out
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[tantek] If they don’t want to be photographed
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gRegorLove Agreed
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aaronpk +1
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gRegorLove It's probably more than we need at this point, but some events let you select a colored badge/lanyard that indicates your preference.
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gRegorLove Green = always ok, yellow = ask first, red = never ok, don't ask
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aaronpk i've been to a few events like that
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Zegnat I like colour code things. I think I recently saw colour coded badges from an event to communicate whether people were welcome to approach you out of the blue or not.
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Zegnat Don’t remember from where.
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Zegnat [tantek], for more context, jkphl had a GoPro mounted to timelapse/something the entire event in Berlin, and sknebel and I weren’t actually sure that was ever disclaimed.
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Zegnat The person who asked not to be in focus on photos didn’t have any actual issues that I know of. They took the group photo so weren’t on there.
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Zegnat Most of the time IndieWebCamps make it pretty clear when something is being streamed and what is visible. But it really should be explicitly called out :)
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gRegorLove Probably the most important thing that sticks out to me is that everyone gets a designation, not just those that don't want to be recorded. No scarlet letters, heh.
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sknebel yeah
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sknebel also agreed with tantek on "capture the current culture" - e.g. streaming is important to how the events work
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sknebel So I'd go with something like: call this out at the start/have it on event pages, inform if you do not want to be recorded, be obvious when taking pictures (when in doubt ask) or point it out beforehand (e.g. "this laptop is streaming this room"), don't publish dumb photos without asking, don't raise a fuss if you are asked to delete something someone is uncomfortable with.
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tantek gRegorLove: not sure about that "most important thing" - from experience with folks at Mozilla events that don't want to be photographed (they can opt to have a red lanyard holder), it's never come up. More an appreciation that there *is* an option just because conference culture is so typically default photos ok
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tantek never heard the scarlet letter concern in practice in those situations, curious if that's something others have heard / seen in other conference situations
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tantek (or is it just anticipatory?)
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gRegorLove anticipatory, so yeah take with a grain of salt. I've not been to an event that has them.
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Zegnat https://alterconf.com/news/introducing-color-communication-badges - is an interesting one on colours for approachability
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Zegnat They mention Wiscon too
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Zegnat Though I could swear I first saw it on Twitter
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Zegnat (Not saying we need approachability-badges at IWC, we might be too informal of a gathering for them to really work, but they are nice.)
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tantek I feel like there's quite a stark difference between events where appearance is *a* focus (dress-up / cosplay etc.) like Wiscon, and conferences in general where there is some aspect/area of knowledge or practice that is the subject, and photography is incidental, it's about people at a conference rather than focused on some particular person or behavior
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tantek in reviewing the "avoid" item in https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct#Respect I'll note that there is an absence about anything about "unwanted attention", and that may be something worth adding as it seems to be a common theme (problem-case to avoid) among other technology conferences/incidents (even though I don't think it's happened at an IWC)
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tantek unwanted photography seems like a particular instance of unwanted attention
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schmarty aaronpk: looking to pick up some microformats and IWC stickers for IWC Baltimore per /IndieWebCamp_kit
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aaronpk I think I have enough I can bring
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schmarty aaronpk: /swag has a great list of stickers but the direct links to stickermule no longer work.
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aaronpk uh
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aaronpk weird
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aaronpk stickermule must have changed something
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aaronpk hey
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aaronpk https://www.stickermule.com/marketplace
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aaronpk that just redirects
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tantek it's interesting when even when there's a direct profit motive to not breaking links, sites still break links
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aaronpk it looks like they don't have a marketplace anymore
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aaronpk I can't find any references to it when i'm logged in either
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schmarty yeah i think they just pulled the functionality :|
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aaronpk they just got back to my support email
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aaronpk "Our marketplace has recently been discontinued. Sadly, we're not able to give it the support that it needs"
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tantek I suppose that's a good reason
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tantek too bad though, because it should have been one of those "print money" type business models
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aaronpk that's too bad though. I thought it worked well enough
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aaronpk well in that case, I will definitely bring a bunch to baltimore
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schmarty sweet, thanks! i guess those are small enough not to impact your luggage too much :}
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tantek aaronpk any thoughts on how to re-organize /100DaysofIndieWeb for the present (and to stay more 'current' over time) ?
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tantek some goals would be things like, keep lists of successfully completed 100days of indieweb (-like) projects, keep lists of brainstorming ideas
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tantek maybe even keep lists of which ideas were tried but no one completed? not sure if that is helpful (sets expectations) or too discouraging
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aaronpk definitely list completed ones
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tantek mostly I want to help motivate folks to start some
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aaronpk I think keeping track of failed attempts is also good, especially if that can be expanded with a little about why it failed
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aaronpk to help people better define future ones
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tantek I want to avoid any kind of shaming
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aaronpk yeah, I was more thinking I would like to warn future optimistic people about how hard it actually is
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tantek we need more than that we need some way to be supportive of folks documenting incomplete 100days attempts as factual and ok
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aaronpk true
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[kevinmarks] Like me.
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tantek maybe we can apply the glass half full approach?
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tantek e.g. document 100days attempts that were "successfuly 30 days projects"
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tantek (insert whatever round number works instead of 30)
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tantek and then use that as an example to encourage people to sign-up for alternative numbers of days (besides 100)