#meta 2018-05-31

2018-05-31 UTC
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dougbeal.com edited /events/2018-05-30-homebrew-website-club (+15) "/* Virtual Americas */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2018/Planning (+67) "/* Invitations */ Thanks j12t for inviting Doc Searls!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2018/Planning (+232) "/* To Be Invited */ Tristan, Aza, Mamie" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /2018/Planning (+15) "Added Klint" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /2018/Planning (+56) "/* To Be Invited */" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /2018/Planning (+1) "/* To Be Invited */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-06-13-homebrew-website-club (+56) "link to local event" (view diff)
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upon2020.com edited /events/2018-06-13-decentralized-web-meetup (+11) "/* Participating */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-06-13-decentralized-web-meetup (+262) "add discussion session with Slack access" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-06-27-homebrew-website-club (+13) "/* San Francisco */ cancelled this week - we'll be in Portland!" (view diff)
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gRegorLove GWG: Since you spurred this, should probably add yourself as interested :) https://indieweb.org/Planning#Online
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Loqi [superfeedr] "IndieWeb-ifying ColoradoBoulevard.net" by Khürt Williams on 2018-05-31 https://islandinthenet.com/indieweb-ifying-coloradoboulevard-net/
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tantek.com edited /Events (+140) "/* October */ MozFest" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+110) "/* December */ mozallhands" (view diff)
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tantek_ performance << https://danluu.com/web-bloat/
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Loqi ok, I added "https://danluu.com/web-bloat/" to the "See Also" section of /performance https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=48137&oldid=44432
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2018-150-hwc-sf.jpg]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2018-150-hwc-sf.jpg"
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs () "(-595) update from /Events" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-05-30-homebrew-website-club (+145) "/* Photos */ SF!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Events (+195) "IWC Berlin planning, BT Berlin" (view diff)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Wow will have to look it up." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://medium.com/@jgmac1106/wow-will-have-to-look-it-up-5487ee40cf22?source=rss-be51ee086a18------2
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Wow will have to look it up. Been buggin me. Especially in Open Source. I have been doing some UX interviews..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/3009-2/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@iamjessklein @toolness @GregorLove @t @araonpk @wiobyrne @zegnat @chrisaldrich @gwg Many of us have..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/3007-2/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@chirsaldrich @Drupal will have a much steeper learning curve then @WordPress but I already know it will..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/3011-2/
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[jgmac1106] so something to think about for vHWC, maybe we should have the "newest attendee" present first. My student came but left immediately after feeling intimidated. She said d everyone was taking about technical stuff she couldn't understand and wanted to know how to put a "picture on top of her blog"
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[jgmac1106] Going to just do one hour open drop in design studios for basic questions
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Zegnat The virtual meetings, especially when they attract some big contributors, do sometimes have the tendency to get overly technical. Same with chat, at times. And while most people more than welcome getting called out for it, it is always hard for newcomers to step up and do the calling out.
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Zegnat definitely something to think about, [jgmac1106]!
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sknebel with newcomers it's always a good idea to do an introductions round at least
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[jgmac1106] Yeah and we ended up with two college administrators rolling out #doo projects and wanted to make it #indieweb friendly. We got too technical by second sentence for norms
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readwriterespond.com edited /User:Readwriterespond.com (+1652) (view diff)
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readwriterespond.com edited /User:Readwriterespond.com (-86) (view diff)
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readwriterespond.com edited /User:Readwriterespond.com (-10) (view diff)
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readwriterespond.com edited /User:Readwriterespond.com (+0) (view diff)
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Loqi [superfeedr] "For everyone who attended the #IndieWeb vHWC last night here is an example of a user page on the…" by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://medium.com/@jgmac1106/for-everyone-who-attended-the-indieweb-vhwc-last-night-here-is-an-example-of-a-user-page-on-the-a099a6346db6?source=rss-be51ee086a18------2
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petermolnar [jgmac1106]: re vHWC I agree with Zegnat, it's harder, than IRL, especially because you can't start p2p conversations simply
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petermolnar an alternative approach is to nominate a "moderator" who leads the discussion and polls the ones not speaking/not spoken yet
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jgmac1106 [chrisaldrich] did a good job moderating. We didn’t know expertise of users who would show up. Here is what my student wrote: My apologies professor, I was thinking it was something else. I thought it was more like learning on blogging and i am not even close to already setting up my blog like you guys.
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jgmac1106 I think I may play with the quiet hour and make it either quiet hour or “Drop in 1:1 Basic Support” The fault is mine. I should have prapred people for the types of conversations that occur. I think the first demo started with , “I went into the mySQL database…”
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sknebel which is why the intro round is important, to get a sense of where people are coming from
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sknebel (for in-person meetups too)
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jgmac1106 yeah I might even do an emoji liker scale vote, or a classic put thumb up if you are a beinnger, thumb down if you are an expert, and anywhere in between to match where you think your blogging/website making skills lie
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sknebel and we certainly had issues like that also at in-person HWCs that there's someone new and others really want to talk about something really technical - at least an in-person meetup then is easily split if necessary
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jgmac1106 MIT used to use google hangouts for their unconferences. Now I see this https://unhangout.media.mit.edu/ and want to go play
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aaronpk Mumble makes it easy to split out to new voice chat rooms so that's always a possibility too. Not quite as natural as in person tho
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sknebel true
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sknebel I'd have to check to make sure, but I don't think I restricted the ability to create rooms on my server
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sknebel (in Berlin we tried topical events, but it didn't quite work with our crowd)
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aaronpk Unhangout looks neat too
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aaronpk built in etherpad lol
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[jgmac1106] https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T03QR2B2T-FAYQ850BT/screenshot_2018-05-31_09.44.32.png?pub_secret=cef70d2fa0&name=Screenshot 2018-05-31 09.44.32.png yeah looks real cool, each breakout room gets a new video feed
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jgmac1106 https://unhangout.media.mit.edu/event/blogging/
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Zegnat I wonder what the tech is, and if my internet can handle it.
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Zegnat clicks link
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jgmac1106 https://gitlab.com/unhangout/reunhangout
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Zegnat jgmac1106, is there an option to allow anonymous users, or must I sign-up?
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jgmac1106 i dunno
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Zegnat “sign up with Twitter”. That’ll do.
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Zegnat waits for “doors open”
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jgmac1106 changed start time
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jgmac1106 doors open
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jgmac1106 I see you as soon as I opened the,
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jgmac1106 this is really cool. I didn’t knwomeidalab continued work after HoA shut down unhangouts
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aaronpk What's running the video stream under the hood?
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aaronpk Is it webrtc or are they running a video server somewhere?
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[jgmac1106] jitsi
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Zegnat The breakouts definitely loaded stuff from meet.jitsi, although it gave me an inbrowser error instead of showing something.
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Zegnat The video on the main session wasn’t jitsi. But my connection couldn’t keep up with it. Sound was almost completely incomprehensible.
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[jgmac1106] @zegnat just hopped in and he could kinda hear me, worked better in Chrome than FF. The breakout room required a jitsi chrome extension for screenshare and calendar updates
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Zegnat I think for the main video it is just one of those streaming solutions that assumes everyone can consume it at the same speed and bitrate that the provider is uploading at.
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aaronpk Doesn't jitsi use webrtc?
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aaronpk I see, so really this is just like making a web page that has two iframes, one is jitsi and the other is etherpad
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Zegnat For the breakouts, yes
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[jgmac1106] yeah, but then you can have 10 breakout rooms with 2-10 people in them yes
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Zegnat Really it is what the IndieWebSummit does: separate live streams for separate sessions, and an etherpad to match ;)
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Zegnat Catch up MIT, we were doing this last summer!
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aaronpk we should embed the stream and etherpadon the session's wiki page and then we're set
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Loqi [superfeedr] "For everyone who attended the #IndieWeb vHWC last night here is an example of a user page on the wiki..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/3013-2/
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Loqi I agree
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Zegnat Not sure that can be done? Weren’t the streams (at least the session) only available through that conference platform Mozilla uses?
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sknebel there was also youtube versions of some sessions
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sknebel I think
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jgmac1106 but I wonder if it could be a vHWC solution
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jgmac1106 vidyo?
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Zegnat Could’ve been VidYo. I completely forgot...
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Zegnat What is IWS 2017?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "IWS 2017" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "IWS 2017 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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jgmac1106 or MozillaAir if that is still a thing. Beyond Firefox I don’t trust Mozilla to support any tool they launch for that long. Everything will get shut down
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aaronpk Yea Mozilla uses Vidyo
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Zegnat IWS 2017 is /2017
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Loqi ok
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aaronpk I think MozillaAir is just a web page wrapper of their Vidyo system anyway
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Zegnat Vidyo worked pretty good. Lots of options to limit bitrates, which made it possible for me to keep pretty solid connections. And because several separate small meeting rooms were used you could connect to any of the sessions whenever you wanted to
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sknebel yeah
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sknebel haven't seen any web-based solution come close to dedicated conference systems like that, sadly
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Zegnat Google hangouts lets you do slight tweaking. E.g. you can request only 360p video streams.
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Zegnat My eyes have definitely been opened to a lot of products that really assume certain availability of internet
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Zegnat IRC - on the other hand - just works ;)
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sknebel oh right, hangouts doesn't rely on plugins anymore?
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sknebel I'd guess the best web-tech based solution probably would be to use WebRTC, but only talking to a server
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sknebel instead of P2P
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Zegnat Uuuh. Hangouts I think works without plugins in Chrome?
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Zegnat I honestly don’t recall which browser I used. I did my job application interview over Hangouts, because the company uses it internally
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sknebel something that only works in chrome isn't "web" :P
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sknebel but I think they fixed Firefox early this year
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aaronpk WebRTC to a server that is transcoding to multiple bitrates sounds ideal
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Zegnat Probably what Google is doing.
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Zegnat Not a trivial thing to do yourself though. Or at least, feels nontrivial.
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[jgmac1106] @sknebel yes you are correct and I can open hangouts in FF, fixed two updates ago I think, but Chrome still handles pages that are massive resource hogs better than FF for me
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[jgmac1106] totally unrelated but I find MoFo primarily uses Hangouts cuz they live la vita Google and MoCo uses Vidyo cuz they live open or die
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GWG I am fine with using whatever works.
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jadin.me created /User:Jadin.me (+60) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">[https://jadin.me/ Taylor Jadin]</span>"" (view diff)
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Zegnat Same. It just turns out a lot of the flashy new tech doesn’t actually work once you get to the type of connection I am on :(
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Zegnat And I am definitely not on the worst connection in the world.
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jgmac1106 yeah it was a total rabbit hole. I remembered doing an “unhangout conference” googled it and found out project still live and no longer using hangouts
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jgmac1106 I probably have one of the worst. My last mile sucks,
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Zegnat jgmac1106: https://wiki.zegnat.net/connection
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jgmac1106 no cpas, 2.5 gigs a day? I wouldn’t get through my first coffee
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jgmac1106 no caps for me
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Zegnat Ha, I just noticed I wrote that “2017-07-16”. And talked about maybe getting the connection “before winter comes”. I should update that.
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Zegnat The ETA is still before-winter, except now it is winter 2018.
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jgmac1106 doing 57.8 up/ and 5.9s down right now, but if it is raining I get about half that
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Zegnat When I was seeing you on video, my connection was maxing out at ~175kbps. So I can download things at 0.02 MB per second.
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jgmac1106 I would take the country side over internet any though, my ex-pat friends in Costa Rica set up a mesh network in their neighborhood that ain’t too bad…but ex-pat usually don’t have to worry about money
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petermolnar Zegnat: 2.5GB per day, that's not much. I have a story when we had to test if an uplink we found in our DC was 1G or 10G in 2013; saturating 10G over the internet is not as simple as it sounds, so we ended up parallel pulling the biggest, baddest linux distro images we were able to find from mirrors - I think each 4.7GB. Yes, it was 10G, but I think we ate through that 2.5GB in seconds.
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Zegnat One part we have been finding very annoying is that everyone conserves their internet usage. So suddenly you are barely using 1GB/day/person. Then you get to the final week of the month, and want to really burn through what you ended up saving, but you can’t actually use it all anymore because of the limited network speed
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@wiobyrne @chrisaldrich Going to run an #IndieWeb Blogging 101 session next few Wednesdays got a couple..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/3015-2/
jgmac1106_, [jgmac1106], [cleverdevil], [tantek], mandy and [Mandy_Honeyman] joined the channel
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Hello #doo #digped #edtechchat #ds106 #clmooc #engchat #literacies @scsu #ctu friends I am going to be..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/3017-2/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Here is the link to the Blogging 101 session: https://hangouts.google.com/call/pRm93gz9NbjSve1YAjD6AAEE..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/blogging101-1/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Reads, Listens, Watches, and Editable Webmention Types and Avatars in the IndieWeb WordPress Suite" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-05-31 https://boffosocko.com/2018/05/31/reads-listens-watches-and-editable-webmention-types-and-avatars-in-indieweb-wordpress-suite/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "Reply to Greg McVerry about Hypothesis" by Chris Aldrich on 2018-05-31 https://boffosocko.com/2018/05/31/reply-to-greg-mcverry-about-hypothesis/
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Loqi [superfeedr] "@chrisaldrich Wouldn’t it be neat if @hypothesis was also a micropub client or used the API so I could..." by Greg McVerry on 2018-05-31 https://jgregorymcverry.com/3026-2/
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www.boffosocko.com edited /events/2018-05-30-homebrew-website-club (+139) "photo for virtual meetup" (view diff)