#meta 2018-09-05

2018-09-05 UTC
Hobbyboy14, vivus, Zegnat, eli_oat, benwerd, [tantek], salamanderrake, [eddie] and [dougbeal] joined the channel; vivus left the channel
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[dougbeal] "We will have a meetup at social! Cup and bar, 10am-noon"
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gRegorLove woot!
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Loqi 😄
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gRegorLove adds to the wiki
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gregorlove.com edited /events/2018-09-06-xoxofest (+575) "/* IndieWeb Related Sessions Meetups */ XOXO IndieWeb Meetup" (view diff)
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aaronpk 11 hours until remind aaronpk to post indie events for the webdensday and Friday xoxo meetups
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2018-09-05 8:51am PDT (#6362)
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[kevinmarks] Where's the Wednesday one? I'm not sure if I will have mobile data when I land
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[dougbeal] I don't think we have decided yet.
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[kevinmarks] OK, well I have mobile data now in theory, we'll see. I land about 3:30pm so I'll have time to find out. Let me know
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aaronpk Let's do Von Ebert Brewing again since I know they have plenty of non table seating
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Loqi remind aaronpk to post indie events for the webdensday and Friday xoxo meetups
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Loqi Countdown set by aaronpk on 2018-09-04 at 9:51pm PDT
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gRegor-mobile sgtm aaronpk. What time?
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aaronpk tantek isn't getting in til late right? but others will be here earlier?
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aaronpk shall we say starting at 7pm?
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gRegor-mobile 👍
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2018/09/05/5/
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Loqi IndieWeb Pre-XOXO Meetup https://aaronparecki.com/2018/09/05/5/map.png
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aaronpk omg that venue search makes this so much easier
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aaronpk why didn't I do that ages ago
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2018/09/07/1/
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Loqi XOXO #indieweb Meetup https://aaronparecki.com/2018/09/07/1/map.png
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2018-09-05-homebrew-website-club (+735) "add portland meetup" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /events/2018-09-06-xoxofest (+112) "add indie event links" (view diff)
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tantek__ aaronpk++ awesome! Hopefully I can meet y'all after the meetup tonight!
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Loqi aaronpk has 59 karma in this channel over the last year (312 in all channels)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+51) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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[dougbeal] I'm going to be working/indiewebbing Courier at 2 pm
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gRegor-mobile 👋 Portland
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aaronpk 👋
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gRegor-mobile Trying to add Indieweb Slack on my phone... Did we use special email addresses for that? It can't seem to find the workspace with my email.
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gRegor-mobile domain at indieweb.org, or something?
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aaronpk we used to, your account might be old enough that yours is like that
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aaronpk I can check what email you used
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gRegor-mobile Thanks
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aaronpk gregorlove.com at indiewebcamp.com
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[gregorlove] That worked, thanks.
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aaronpk 🎉
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aaronpk you should be able to change the email on your account to your own email now
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Loqi it is probable
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[dougbeal] 👋
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tantek__ Would be interesting to evaluate how indieweb as a community does regarding the points of discussion in this post: https://anna.flourishing.stream/2018/09/04/open-code-is-not-working-open/
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Loqi Open code != working open
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tantek__ And in particular, what are the ways that we could do better?
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tantek__ (do better than our present/past selves that is, not setting up any kind of competition/comparison with Mastodon)
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aaronpk I saw that
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aaronpk it seems like most of the problems stem from a single person having authority over what gets accepted into the project
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aaronpk since we don't have just one project, the closest analogy would be specs I guess? possibly the wiki since that can be seen as an "authoritative" source?
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Zegnat Hmm, in part I might have done something like that. I think there have been feature requests for selfauth that simply weren’t an itch of mine or something I would use, which I have then not worked on because I wouldn’t be eating that dogfood.
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Zegnat In a way that is the same thing right? Gargron not wanting to share decision-making (point 1) could be because he is first and foremost building for himself?
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aaronpk yes, it seems there is some line between building for yourself and having a responsibility once other people start using the software
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Zegnat I do like those 3 points of working open, and I can totally see them apply to general community efforts and not just code. That third point is one we were discussing not long ago, visavis the use of the wiki and who would contribute to it
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[jgmac1106] I think it is the federated nature. City states and nation states find themselves in competition in federalist systems
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[jgmac1106] When you concentrate power in a few without clear paths to mobility the masses suffer
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[jgmac1106] [aaronpk] Loqi needs a response when someone doesn't have a chat name
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aaronpk hmm maybe. I was worried about false positives
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[jgmac1106] Something like, "Hmmm, we aren't friends yet. You should send them these directions to create a chat name"
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AngeloGladding *cough* reference implementation *cough*
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AngeloGladding right now it's uniquely akward navigating "IndieWeb source code"
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AngeloGladding awkward* :)
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AngeloGladding it's just various individuals' usually unpolished github repos
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AngeloGladding it makes sense but it's different than the rest
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tantek__ variety and diversity is better than /monoculture in the long run, always
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tantek__ AngeloGladding: that being said, acknowledged that we can do better about navigating IndieWeb *projects* and in particular, I still have lots of clean-up to do on the /projects page
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AngeloGladding iif success is achieved
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tantek__ AngeloGladding: that's the beautify of indieweb approaches, success is achieved if even you yourself use your software regularly for your primary web identity
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tantek__ hard to beat that
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tantek__ also exceptionally resilient
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AngeloGladding ah is there anything else like it!?
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AngeloGladding where each network user writes their own client/server?
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AngeloGladding if there isn't a precedence then i can see how it'd be even that much more difficult for outsiders to appreciate
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aaronpk "reference implementation" is exactly the kind of thing I want to avoid
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AngeloGladding me too
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AngeloGladding but it's certainly the expectation
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AngeloGladding aaronpk i'd much rather publish canopy code and have someone yank the bootstrap utility and create their own simplified tor-based implementation with it
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AngeloGladding evolutionary
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aaronpk at the building block level, sure
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AngeloGladding aaronpk you mention the "authority" of spec writer -- what about the de facto authority of majority implementation?
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AngeloGladding i wonder if there's any ways that could go sour. one idea comes to mind: