#meta 2018-11-16

2018-11-16 UTC
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j12t So I am waiting in the Mozilla lobby in Mountain View today, and I idly gaze over their monitor installation there, and aaronpk's and tantek's names run by. Did not expect that. May have been from the IndieWebCamp Berlin @ Mozilla feed or so.
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Loqi j12t: tantek left you a message on 2018-07-09 at 10:26pm UTC: FYI I added my proposals for lightning talk / workshop to https://indieweb.org/events/2018-08-01-decentralized-web-summit#IndieWeb_Related_Sessions - go ahead and add yours too if you submitted any!
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j12t Hmm, Loqi, perhaps you need an expiration date, or I need to say something more often in this channel.
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sknebel There's of course also the option of doing what jgmac does, and use a different solution on a subdomain for the more microbloggy parts
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[tantek] welcome back j12t 🙂
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[tantek] sknebel - that sounds like more moving parts to maintain
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sknebel Depends
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sknebel Micro.blog takes care of the Microblog parts quite well and hopefully requires little to no maintenance, while at the same time keeping the longform blog on WP means using the already set up, familiar solution there
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[chrisaldrich] tantek, perhaps I'm missing some context, but what is the need for [sdepolo] to want to move from a self-hosted wordpress solution to micro.blog? It's probably easier for her to continue publishing on her site and syndicate into micro.blog and participate that way.
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jacky ^
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] as above, more moving parts to maintain.
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[tantek] The need is illustrated by the fact that adding more indieweb functionality is just harder (more steps, easier to get wrong) in WordPress than in micro.blog, the specific example above is setting up Aperture.
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[tantek] Thus for someone who is primarily looking to replace their social media usage with indieweb usage on their own domain, that use-case is currently better (fewer setup steps, less maintenance over time) solved with micro.blog
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jacky does [sdepolo] identity as a gen4/gen3 user?
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[chrisaldrich] Given where things are some of that is true, but simultaneously a lot of the maintenance bar has been coming down over time (with respect to WordPress), and possibly with a WordPress microsub server on it's way shortly....
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GWG Micro.blog doesn't have that
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[tantek] jacky, it's not clear the gen4/gen3 categorizations are that helpful any more - we've had discussions about this at the Summit and since
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[tantek] If OTOH for example you're looking to do cutting edge indieweb experiments like new post types, then WordPress allows you the most power, flexibility, experimentation (short of DIY)
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jacky ohh (at the portland summit or a more recent one)
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GWG I have a lot to improve
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] yes the maintenance tax of WordPress has been reduced over time, and that's great progress. It's still more than setting up / maintaining micro.blog
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[tantek] we can re-evaluate when said WordPress microsub server is available for setup
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[tantek] [chrisaldrich] I think it's important to get a setup that works for you personally first, then have something that you can use to illuminate any self-hosting for day job etc. second.
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[chrisaldrich] I also suspect that [sdepolo] may want to keep her day job in mind with respect to the calculus of self-hosting, though the draw to less maintenance can certainly be a siren song.
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[tantek] What's clear is that [sdepolo] has tried repeatedly to use her WordPress instead of social media but, her words, keeps *checking* social media - that directly implies a need for an indieweb social reader to replace that, hence Aperture, hence where we ended up in our discussion.
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GWG We will get there
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jacky bet bet
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jacky yeah social readers have been an ask even in mastodon circles
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[tantek] That's great GWG. However, one must not compare "option A 'coming soon' with option B what you can use today"
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[tantek] that's a flawed comparison
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aaronpk "coming soon" is a dangerous trap
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[tantek] something you can use today > coming soon > nothing > handwaving on email (an actual negative time suck)
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[tantek] the only possible exception to that is if you are building you're own coming soon that will satisfy your needs better than the things you can use today
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aaronpk i fall into the "coming soon" trap for things I am even planning on building myself lol
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[tantek] "coming soon" AKA "working on" 😄
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aaronpk "oh yeah im totally going to build this thing" becomes "this thing is coming soon" and then I realize 2 years later that i havent even started
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[tantek] I think I have a few 5+ years things in /Falcon#Working_On
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GWG jackjamieson and I are actively working on it
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GWG He is doing the endpoint and I am doing the Parsing
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GWG I am tempted to help with the endpoint
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GWG I want it too
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GWG Indieauth took 4 gears
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GWG years
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[chrisaldrich] Given the issues with import/export versus the trap of coming soon, my personal strategy would probably be to try out paid micro.blog to see if it actually suits my needs and then deal with importing data later.
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[chrisaldrich] That pesky import/export piece is a major barrier for many people. Attempting the import/export first to find the solution doesn't work at all can be an even deadlier trap.
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[tantek] aaronpk, fortunately when it's personal, those "traps" are just the side-effect of prioritizing more important things, not actually letting anyone down
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aaronpk true true
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aaronpk only myself
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[tantek] no you didn't even let yourself down, because you prioritized something more important! that's a good thing!
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GWG I think WordPress has a growing robust system that grows every month
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[tantek] I think so too
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GWG And even I can be critical of it sometimes, but I like it
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[sdepolo] Thanks [chrisaldrich] and [tantek] I’ll get on aperture after checking out micro.blog that I just signed up for. To do self hosted micro blog I think I need another domain if I wanna keep wp at my main .com for now, right? Maybe I Can use a sub domain like micro.staceydepolo.com?
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GWG [sdepolo]: You should.
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GWG And we'll get on that social reader
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GWG Actually, already on that
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GWG My Indiewebcamp badge showed up.
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[chrisaldrich] [sdepolo] that sounds about right. If I recall it's the path that Dan Cohen took a while back: https://dancohen.org/2018/06/26/going-indie-on-social-media/ if you want to see how he thought about it.
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[sdepolo] Thanks
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[tantek] Yes [sdepolo] a subdomain like that 🙂
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[chrisaldrich] [sdepolo] In addition to the /Micro.blog page on the wiki and their own help page, Eli also has lots of compiled resources as you start down that path: https://eli.li/entry.php?id=20180523034719
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Loqi [Eli Mellen] Oat note, posted May 23, 2018
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[manton] [sdepolo] Thanks! Let me know if you have any questions or feedback about Micro.blog.
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[manton] Using a subdomain like micro.staceydepolo.com is a great place to start.
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[manton] [tantek] 🌮 for Austin is perfect. Love it.
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aaronpk eats enough tacos to put portland on the taco map
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aaronpk well maybe anomalily+me combined anyway
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aaronpk that's 6 tacos a day right there
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[tantek] ah, but do you have http://tacocopter.com/ service?
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[tantek] (a bit # chat offtopic 🙂 )
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aaronpk is it on topic if she posts about it on her website? https://www.ohmydollar.com/2017/02/08/breakfasttacos/ :D
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[tantek] needs h-recipe 😄
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loqi.me created /taco (+17) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] taco << 2018-02-08 {{anomalily}} [https://www.ohmydollar.com/2017/02/08/breakfasttacos/ My protein-packed vegan breakfast costs me 60 cents a day]
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Loqi ok, I added "2018-02-08 {{anomalily}} [https://www.ohmydollar.com/2017/02/08/breakfasttacos/ My protein-packed vegan breakfast costs me 60 cents a day]" to the "See Also" section of /food https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=54004&oldid=50112
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-11-16.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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aaronpk wow great turnout in SF!
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[tantek] yeah it was great!
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[tantek] maybe once a month does work better?
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Micropub-extensions (+789) "/* Query for Category/Tag List */ add further description and add eddie's implementation" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Micropub-extensions (-30) "/* Query for Category/Tag List */" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Micropub-extensions (+41) "/* Query */ move other query ideas into section below ones with actual implementations" (view diff)
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jgmac1106 [chrisaldrich] [gwg] using 2016-IndieWeb requires installing a theme from GitHib...and then knowing how to makre a child theme, and then be able to install updates to the master theme froma GitHub repo….not for the feint of heart
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@garrettc ↩️ I use them to cache the facepile avatars from web mentions (https://polytechnic.co.uk/blog/2018/09/indiewebcamp-oxford-day-1), love them. Really easy to work with. (twitter.com/_/status/1063398081536888832)
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jgmac1106 good mornign Juan
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jgmac1106 addad a page to track 100 days of IndieWeb https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/pages/100daysofindieweb
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@jgmac1106 Day three of a 100 days of #IndieWeb added a CC license to the footer on staging and links to popular feeds in my h-card. I also added a page to track the challenge: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/pages/100daysofindieweb (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1JrulU) (twitter.com/_/status/1063413359477956608)
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@jgmac1106 @miklb was talking to @arush during vHWC-Americas about #IndieWeb and WordPress. She kind of agreed that starting new themes only way to really get it right. Adapting existing themes almost impossible. #mb (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1VubEw) (twitter.com/_/status/1063430936816218113)
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@jgmac1106 Everyone still stands in awe at @dshanske 2016-IndieWeb commit messages. A novel of skill and persistence, but a task few theme maintainers will ever be willing to undergo. #mb (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/KUqFn) (twitter.com/_/status/1063431316706869253)
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www.svenknebel.de created /events/2018-11-14-virtual-homebrew-website-club-americas (+1409) "create a page for vHWC Americas so it ends up in the newsletter" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Events (+59) "/* November */ link virtual americas to individual page" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /events/2018-11-2nd-week-meetups (+131) "autogenerated with 6 entries" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page (+3) "/* Homebrew Website Club */ replace picture with SF 2018-11-14" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 Hey folks at #ncte18 who were asking how I am able to do all this stuff from my own website I made a quick recording of my mobile #IndieWeb blogging tools: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwECN4uVuHg (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/27rvsK) (twitter.com/_/status/1063480552173522944)
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gRegorLove tantek: Re: https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2018-11-15#t1542317166440700 The template puts u-url around the event link, so there shouldn't be implied url, regardless of nowiki.
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Loqi [[tantek]] only one link works for implied u-url
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gRegorLove Tested and <nowiki> doesn't appear to work like that in the template. I can still wiki link in the description.
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gRegorLove I wanted 2 u-urls on that event, so I'm still not clear on the problem.
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Zegnat Ooh, I see jkphl had coloured lanyards for the Accessibility Conference! :D
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@xolotl ↩️ paging #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1063513590194290688)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-11-16.html
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@jgmac1106 Fore Ways #IndieWeb is #SocialJustice #ncte18: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/11/16/fore-ways-indieweb-is-socialjustice-ncte18 (twitter.com/_/status/1063539410157867008)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-11-16.html
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@til_mb ↩️ A day later Manton revealed the new structure for usernames in http://Micro.blog, enabling improved interaction between the platform and the Open Web; this involves Mastodon and IndieWeb-friendly domain names specifically: https://manton.org/2018/11/08/usernames-on-microblog.html (twitter.com/_/status/1063554266101633030)
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@indiewebcamp This week in the #indieweb https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-11-16.html https://t.co/aj7MmAm0IO (twitter.com/_/status/1063556080897118208)
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[tantek] gregorlove the problem was the "external" class mis-semantically applied to a non-external link because Mediawiki's backend logic on this is faulty
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gRegorLove ahh
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[tantek] the only current mediawiki workaround for that is to use a native wiki link [[pagename|label]] and then hope it gets picked up as an implied u-url because mediawiki by default does not let you add class attributes to any links it generates via [[ ]] or [ ] or auto-linking
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[tantek] but that requires both simpler markup and only one a href hyperlink inside the h-event (for the implied u-url to work)
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gRegorLove I should test now that we're on newer MW. There was some limitation with templates before that kept me from just wiki linking the event page directly.
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[tantek] I checked the docs - still can't do it
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[tantek] need an extension called LinkAttributes which is very cool and let's you do things like [[pagename|label|rel=alternate]]
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gRegorLove yuck
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Loqi agreed.
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gRegorLove The other option is the <span class=u-url> hack
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[tantek] why yuck? at least it is *a* way rather than it being impossible
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[tantek] no that still generates the mistaken "external" classname on the auto-linked URL
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gRegorLove Around a wiki link?
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gRegorLove "yuck" probably too strong a reaction. Just more plugins to manage.
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[tantek] that won't work. <span class=u-url>[[pagename|label]]</span> will put "label" in the u-url, not the linked pagename URL
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[tantek] u-url only pulls out the href, src etc. attribute on the exact element it is on
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[tantek] (deliberately)
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[tantek] not on child element(s)
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[tantek] and unfortunately that LinkAttributes extension has an allow-list of attributes which does not include 'class' or 'property' 😞
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[tantek] so I wrote this: https://github.com/rotsee/LinkAttributes/pull/11
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Loqi [tantek] #11 allow class and property attributes
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gRegorLove you're right, I'm mentally mixing it up... we've only used the spam with external links, like on /2018
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gRegorLove *span
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[tantek] anyway experiment failed, rolled back. 💁‍♂️
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[tantek] aaronpk - looks like Loqi is still acting like he's in DST?
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gRegorLove what time is it for Loqi?
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Loqi In Loqi's timezone, America/Los_Angeles, it is currently 2:59pm on November 16
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[tantek] Except: https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2018-11-16/1542405043423500
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Loqi [Loqi] Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2018-11-16.html
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gRegorLove gives Loqi DST
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[tantek] that was time stamped 2018-11-16 America/Los_Angeles # 13:50
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[tantek] so Loqi is still in DST
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[tantek] as far as newsletter messaging
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[tantek] and the time testing conditional (since Loqi sent out the newsletter at 2pm Pacific Time, not "at 3pm Pacific time" like he claimed he would)
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tantek.com edited /100DaysOfIndieWeb (+223) "note a 2018 100 Days of IndieWeb start by jgmac1106, document 8 days completed of t's 100PDPD attempt at year start" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-11-14-homebrew-website-club-sf (+5) "🌁" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-11-14-virtual-homebrew-website-club (+3) "🇪🇺 EU" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2018-11-14-homebrew-website-club-sf (+14) "h1 San Francisco" (view diff)
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[tantek] too late for newsletter but curious if Kaja will now update https://indieweb.org/events/2018-11-2nd-week-meetups#Wednesday.2C_14th accordingly (can we pick a URL design that doesn't require funky escaping side-effects?)
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sknebel it'll if I press the button
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[tantek] model subscriptions as "person / aspect" not, "feed: URL"
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[tantek] oops wrong chan 😂
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seblog.nl edited /Shortcuts (+431) "add IndieAuth flow" (view diff)
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