#meta 2018-12-15

2018-12-15 UTC
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@jsonbecker Indieweb should absolute have a reference open source blogging engine. I don’t want to use Wordpress. I prefer a static site, but there are limitations (lack of Micropub endpoint for one) https://ramblinggit.com/2018/12/blog-engines-and-indieweb-controlling-upstream/ (twitter.com/_/status/1073737856747753472)
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aaronpk noo
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aaronpk there need to be *multiple* *good* blogging engines, not a *reference* one
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@EddieHinkle ↩️ @jsonbecker One of the important aspects of the IndieWeb is plurality (which is what that article talks about) (https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/12/14/16/reply/) (twitter.com/_/status/1073741171900469249)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @EddieHinkle It's not a single engine but a set of open protocols and standards. Folks can bring their own engine.. I am lodged in between a static site and an IndieWeb CMS... (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/10dHXo) (twitter.com/_/status/1073744389862842368)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ But the beauty of it is because most tools require microformats and the majority of tools have both self hosted and third party options anyone who can write a tiny bit of HTML can #IndieWeb others can join as well at their level (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1I2S69) (twitter.com/_/status/1073744915287457793)
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@jsonbecker ↩️ The reality right now is that most reference Indieweb compatible blogs require too much expertise or Wordpress. IMO, ideally the community defining API standards and micro formats should do their own FOSS reference implementations AND Wordpress. (twitter.com/_/status/1073747633737555969)
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aaronpk not sure i follow this logic
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ really though 94.327% of #IndieWeb is getting your own place online not under corporate control, and even better if it's your own Domain. The other 17.4367% just cool geeky tools to #BeYourOwnSocialNetwork Get online, write yourself onto the… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/15/jsonbecker-really-though-94327%25-of-indieweb-is (twitter.com/_/status/1073748566118752256)
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@EddieHinkle ↩️ I am inclined to agree, as you mentioned implementations (plural). The build for yourself solutions we currently have were a good starting point but I do believe we need to have more readily accessible and customizable (via UI) tools for the IndieWeb. (https://eddiehinkle.com/2018/12/14/17/reply/) (twitter.com/_/status/1073748889948303360)
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aaronpk i'm all for having a bunch of good tools, but the fact is we're not a formal organization and we can't just pay people to build stuff, and even if we did, then we would be anti the very goals we're going for
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[eddie] I think he is just advocating for easier onboarding based on easier software. I agree. That won’t be solved tomorrow and not paying people obviously makes that more challenging
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[eddie] But I think having several easy to start IndieWeb software tools matches the goals of the IndieWeb
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aaronpk yeah it definitely does, but actually making those happen is the challenge
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aaronpk it's not something any of us can just decide to do and then suddenly is done
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ right WP a beast. You can do your best for semantic HTML but too many themes/plugins conflic NOT #IndieWeb specific. Customer support for WordPress has always been turn off every plugin.. Then turn them on one hy one until you find… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/15/eddiehinkle-right-wp-a-beast (twitter.com/_/status/1073750046695415808)
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[eddie] Definitely, that is the challenge. I don’t think he necessarily has some expectation that we deploy it tomorrow. But I think he is advocating that is a good next step
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[eddie] It’s also based on his reading of https://ramblinggit.com/2018/12/blog-engines-and-indieweb-controlling-upstream/
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aaronpk tbh there isn't much point in advocating for it unless you're willing to take part in making it happen ;-)
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[eddie] Sure, that makes sense
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[eddie] 🙂
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[jgmac1106] Easier software and I want a static site don't go in the same sentence... Shows why words like easy and hard never belong in coding and the web
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk micro.blog has done a pretty good job of making static sites easy
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aaronpk to the point of people not even knowing that it's a static site, or even needing to know what that means :)
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[eddie] That is very true
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[eddie] Microblog++
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Loqi Microblog has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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[jgmac1106] Yeah nobody knows... It's just (like it's just should be said lightly) a Jekyll site
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[jgmac1106] I guess that's the point on #IndieWeb everyone's site is the reference site
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[jgmac1106] And we can DO a WordPress theme... Doing ALL the themes impossible
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[eddie] I’ve thought about trying to spin my site into a more readily accessible piece of software. My challenge is that Node.js isn’t very accessible. So I started looking into PHP frameworks. But The two front runners I saw (Laravel and Symfony) don’t seem to run on shared hosts very easily. Is there something I missed, aaronpk, or is this a known drawback of the more popular PHP frameworks?
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aaronpk what about them led you to that conclusion?
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aaronpk i haven't actually tried running a laravel app on a shared host, but once it's packaged up and built, and as long as you aren't using features that are difficult to run on shared hosts, i don't see why they wouldn't run
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[eddie] I saw a bunch of command line stuff on Laravel and then I googled it and people seemed to run into a lot of issues
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aaronpk wait that's not true, I have run a couple laravel apps on dreamhost
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[eddie] Hmm okay. So you haven’t found any major issues with that
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[eddie] Maybe people just haven’t packaged them up properly
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aaronpk yeah for development you often need command line, and if you're going to run background worker stuff
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aaronpk but once you write it it's just a bunch of php files that run like normal
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[eddie] Ahh okay. That encouraging. I’ll have to look back into it then if you haven’t found those issues
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[eddie] Thanks 🙂
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aaronpk laravel in particular does a really good job of providing multiple options for things like background workers where you can even run a minimal version on a shared host, and doesn't require changing any code
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aaronpk all the components are configurable with different "drivers" so you can have like a storage driver that stores files on disk or in s3 and the app gets to treat them the same way
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[eddie] Oh cool. That’s good. Laravel was looking pretty good when I was looking into it
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aaronpk so if you're careful about how you build your app and stick to these interfaces, you can actually make an app that can run on shared hosting that can also be configured to be even faster/better/stronger on a more complex deployment, but it's all the same code
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[eddie] Awesome. I did notice it had different interfaces and that seemed super useful
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[tantek] eddie, why do you need a PHP framework?
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[tantek] actually this is more dev - sorry I'll ask there
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@megarush1024 ↩️ @Cambridgeport90 Here you go: https://github.com/dshanske/twentysixteen-indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1073779030862766080)
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@megarush1024 ↩️ Most support microformats 1. The one I sent supports microformats 2 along with the indieweb plugins more completely, plus works with Bridgy and creates cleaner output for shorter posts when syndicating. (twitter.com/_/status/1073779944948449280)
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[eddie] Anyone have anything for today's IndieWeb challenge?
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GWG Still work in progress
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@miklb Sad to say that the #indieweb part of my WordPress site is woefully broken. Time to accelerate v5 as I’m not inclined to figure out what’s broken at this point. (twitter.com/_/status/1073791376796672002)
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[eddie] GWG as in "still work in progress for another day" or "work in progress finished in the next 30 minutes"?
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[eddie] :D
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GWG [eddie]: That might be a -dev conversation
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[eddie] lol I guess to keep it Meta for now, I'm wondering if I should work on a short wiki project that I have on my list to ensure we have something
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[eddie] 🙂
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[eddie] I think i'll go ahead and do it
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[eddie] That said, happy to hear about you in progress over in -dev!
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eddiehinkle.com edited /IndieAuth (+481) "/* FAQ */ Add webfinger question from aaronpk's presentation" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /IndieAuth (+719) "/* FAQ */ Add openid 1 question from aaronpk's talk" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /IndieAuth (+584) "/* FAQ */ Add question about client id from aaronpk's talk" (view diff)
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aaronpk [eddie]++ thanks!!
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Loqi [eddie] has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (84 in all channels)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /IndieAuth (+1018) "/* FAQ */ Add pre-registration question from aaronpk's talk" (view diff)
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[eddie] My pleasure ;)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /2018-12-indieweb-challenge (+120) "Added today" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /to-do (-255) "Removed completed task" (view diff)
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[tantek] Eddie++ crushing it!
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Loqi Eddie has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (85 in all channels)
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[eddie] Thanks 😁
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+330) "/* Twitter hashtags */ updating hashtag" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 Starting the arduous process of turning my 10 year old CV into an h-resume, while also building a resume template on @Glitch for my students. Someone do me a favor and just add all the #IndieWeb building blocks to @staeiou: https://academicpages.github.io/ then… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/15/starting-the-arduous-process-of-turning-my (twitter.com/_/status/1073930012032712704)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ ooh Garteh there are a few community members who added the #IndieWeb building blocks to Ghost: https://twitter.com/_gw/status/1073231199571767296 I wonder if we can do the same on the @glitch Ghost installs wonder if @RealGuerillero or @iamjohnellison could help (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/SArxZ) (twitter.com/_/status/1073990908738199553)
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jgregorymcverry.com uploaded /File:toolbuilderbadge.png "prototype of a community badge https://indieweb.org/File:toolbuilderbadge.png"
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jgregorymcverry.com created /toolbuilder-badge (+768) "Protoype Tool Builder Badge Template" (view diff)
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[tantek] On the topic of mission statements, I found this particularly inspiring: https://www.fastcompany.com/90280950/exclusive-patagonia-is-in-business-to-save-our-home-planet
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[tantek] What parallels can we draw to "saving the internet / web" and how might we better align and express indieweb /principles accordingly?
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[jgmac1106] it is an equity issue for sure
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[tantek] equity?
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[jgmac1106] it is protecting indigenous cultures and language....yes, balancing of removing friction for people while providing scaffold for under represented people
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[jgmac1106] #DiversifyMyFeed
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[jgmac1106] I need to get better at that, we were just talking on micro.blog about this..but mainly we have two billion people online now, for the last 1.5 billion there is no web for facebook, these prescriptive silos reinforce gaps of access and skills among rich and poor, global north v global south, etc
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[tantek] While I don't disagree with that summary and conclusion, I found this quote from the article particularly relevant to consider: "We were supporting too many causes that were working on symptoms and not actual causes and solutions."
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[tantek] Good to be aware of symptoms for sure, yet better to take a step back and understand / work on "actual causes and solutions"
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[jgmac1106] You know me, I would advocate that Designing for Diversity and Inclusion was a principle NOT included in the original web, and it should be included as an IndieWeb principle...
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[jgmac1106] ...but yes not a problem a bit of code can solve
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[jgmac1106] ...but inviting people to play with code....maybe we have a shot
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[tantek] yes to being *actively* inclusive
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jgregorymcverry.com created /toolbuilder-badge-jgmac1106 (+860) "prototype badge" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] showdonttell++
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Loqi showdonttell has 1 karma over the last year
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jgmac1106 will had the discussion of badges and permalinks after I play with the kids
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@jgmac1106 If you are a #designer looking to add some open source love to your portfolio just found out our buttons need updating to our new logo: https://indieweb.org/buttons #mozillians #IndieWeb #OpenDesign (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/SRUC5) (twitter.com/_/status/1074029362700279813)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /toolbuilder-badge (+151) "/* Recipients */ added recipient" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /badge (+325) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ added examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /rel-me (+155) "/* Service Support */ IndieLogin" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /XFN (+345) "clean up see also, add Rel-me examples summary" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /badge (+1076) "added my brainstorming" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /badge (+1) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (-10) "replace with re-cut version" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk++ thank you!
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Loqi aaronpk has 52 karma in this channel over the last year (283 in all channels)
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[tantek] aaronpk, the re-cut video is enough of a nice republication that it may be worth listing it for today's IndieWeb Challenge box (15) if nothing else is there
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[tantek] or even if other things are added, may be worth keeping it as a secondary thing for today
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tantek.com edited /reply-context (+358) "/* Why in-stream */ add another screenshot from schmarty of just 👍" (view diff)
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@mickael Getting up to speed with IndieWeb principles and specs… Expecting to code on this in the coming days. https://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1074061489185656833)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ @mickael welcome!! If you like Elixir check out Koype https://indieweb.org/Koype (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1DV6Pc) (twitter.com/_/status/1074067701973295105)
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