#meta 2018-12-16

2018-12-16 UTC
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /badge (+1344) "/* Other Examples */ added Open badges" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /badge (+825) "added benifits of webmention badges, question about third party endorsement" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /toolbuilder-badge-jgmac1106 (+8) "adding the u-reply-to to both the badge hosting page and the evidence page" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2018-12-indieweb-challenge (+130) (view diff)
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aaronpk tantek++ good idea
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Loqi tantek has 19 karma in this channel over the last year (82 in all channels)
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aaronpk I didn't even think of that while I was doing it
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[jgmac1106] might just have to make a 🎁 badge and give one out to anyone who has a gift on the calendar
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aaronpk [jgmac1106]: I just switched your aperture account to https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com
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[jgmac1106] Yipeee!!
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[jgmac1106] No more opening source, open in FF, copy url, go to Known, and publish..
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[jgmac1106] Though both Known and micro.blog function as decent PWA like sites... Though tinyMCE mobile experience leaves much to be desired
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@Kyuu9sha Getting deep into the rabbit hole of #indieweb. Will take a while before I get my webpage to work with the rest of the network. Amazing initiative I must say! https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/1074142247946457093)
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[tantek] aaronpk your good instincts are rewarded!
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[tantek] and now we're almost halfway through December! Nice work everyone! https://indieweb.org/2018-12-indieweb-challenge
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[tantek] also new consecutive days record. last year we only hit 14 days in a row before we missed one: https://indieweb.org/2017-12-indieweb-challenge
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[eddie] Uh oh! Pressure is on not to break the chain! Haha
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[eddie] Hmmm chat.indieweb.org search seems to be down
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[eddie] It’s not returning any results
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "last one of 2018!" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next hwc" (view diff)
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[eddie] is very impatiently waiting for a nearby Drupal Camp to choose their speaker list so he knows if his IndieWeb talk got accepted or not
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notiz.blog edited /User:Notiz.blog (+1) (view diff)
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@PPellenaars ↩️ Misschien dat ik in 2019 wat meer tijd ga steken in het begrijpen van waar jij op jouw blog regelmatig over schrijft => indieweb. (twitter.com/_/status/1074243257423618048)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Events (-42) "fix links to IWC wiki pages" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Events (-21) "/* May */ same" (view diff)
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sknebel [jgmac1106]: is IWC new haven fixed now? (updating IWC list on front page)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page (+242) "/* IndieWebCamp */ add future IWCs" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page (-2) "/* Upcoming IndieWebCamps */" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] [sknebel] yes.. Except for semester breaks...I will note when winter hiatus over
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sknebel IWC, not HWC
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[jgmac1106] Ohh yes, that is set... I messed up naming a file in repo need to fix
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Main_Page (+224) "/* IndieWebCamp */ new haven" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de edited /Organizers/event_pages (+59) "/* ToDos */ maybe relevant extension" (view diff)
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@cswordpress ↩️ Do you know specifically which #indieweb functionality isn't working? That would be a useful place to start so that others can help figure out what's not working and how to fix. (twitter.com/_/status/1074319891132485632)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ We know that SemPress is compatible with Gutenberg and 5.0, 2016-IndieWeb as well. The post-kind plugin is 5.0 compatible but does not work with Gutenberg. You have to use the classic editor. #IndiWeb (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1dgAFF) (twitter.com/_/status/1074320852102057984)
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@jgmac1106 Is anyone else hanging #IndieWeb style powered by @grabaperch? Looks like no native micropub support, and would need some love to connect to microsub readers but I just want a box where I type HTML and it becomes a post. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/gbfj9) (twitter.com/_/status/1074344115578507265)
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[tantek] Aaronpk, check out these buttons that are like the badges for social interaction that a11yconf had: https://www.instagram.com/p/BnkCGS3B2_s/
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Loqi [Affect] In case you don’t follow our Twitter, we now have templates available so you can make your own Color Communication buttons! affectconf.com/resources And if you live in the US and want a red or yellow button in general for FREE, tell us a good mail... https://scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/6d67b3563ae72df70b4cb98b91be32c7/5CA43232/t51.2885-15/e35/40230001_468997706927964_4267428804814376421_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.cdninstagram.com
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Except I will have to keep one version of any working #IndieWeb theme for making tutorials and helping out community so I will still have to get my hands dirty. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1YehPX) (twitter.com/_/status/1074346031003959302)
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[tantek] jgmac1106++ for posting his thoughts out loud on his own site !
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 38 karma in this channel over the last year (92 in all channels)
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[tantek] Also the affectconf code of conduct has very nice short & direct writing that is even mobile readable: https://affectconf.com/coc/
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[jgmac1106] except I am not doing what I sat down to do...layout an h-resume in css grid for my students to remix next semester...just wanted to do a like post......shutting everything down until the h-resume is done...just as I layout what I am calling my "few" static pages I want moar...need to learn to be happy with I have enough
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[tantek] Jgmac1106 how did you put it? Just want a box to type in some HTML?
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[tantek] Do you have a post / summary of just that feature / user request?
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[tantek] I’d like to include it explicitly on /create#Brainstorming
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[jgmac1106] yes I want a blank box for HTML, Known as a rich text edior, I publish stuff as post that shouldn't be articles simply as that is only route to HTML
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[tantek] (Incidentally “just type / copy paste some HTML” is a lot like how I blog in /Falcon so I’m hoping to understand broader needs better through your example)
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[jgmac1106] if I syndicate a note from a micropub client it publishes in plain text
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[jgmac1106] yeah its neat, but I also worry nobody elese really wants to publish that way..but what i want...its the plumbing I can't do
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[tantek] Ooh like a micropub client that lets you enter HTML!
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[tantek] It may be a small use case but it’s definitely not “nobody else”
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[jgmac1106] all I want box->html->post the title no title field be something to figure out..but if h1 reserved for title maybe doable
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[jgmac1106] I would just keep every post type as a template in sublime, image uploads of course get tricky...requires a bit of UI
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[jgmac1106] but maybe try to leverage pixelfed or some other third party, the reason I am, doing this: https://jgmac1106homepage.glitch.me/articles.html is becuae I got sick of a CMS telling me how my CSS must look. i want to do stupid and ugly stuff like http://walkmyworld.jgregorymcverry.com/ and other CSS poetry projects
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Zegnat So would you want an HTML editor for entire pages/URLs, or does it still apply some sort of templating around what you put in the box?
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[jgmac1106] then I saw...I add h-feed...my site is in my social reader with me doing nothing...I could design a page for my photos, likes, all the post types...CSS Grid brings design to everyone
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[tantek] Like do you explicitly put in the h-entry or does the CMS add that wrapper for you?
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[jgmac1106] for my long form writing I will just start with a blank HTML field...but I am spending too much time trying tofiugre out simple problems...
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[jgmac1106] I do that now because I have no CMS, but it takes 17 files in the Known plugin to inject an h-cite and a u-like-of....that seems wrong
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[jgmac1106] I huess the CMS should handle the top h...but the more CMS handles..the more that breaks and the more I can't do...
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[tantek] Yeah “17 files” is the kind of thing that can happen when a developer “refactored” code and/or uses a bunch of OOP
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[jgmac1106] microformats is easy enough for anyone who knows HTML that just doing plain HTML easiest approach...it's a community plugin as well....so noboidy to blame people helping each other, just feels like too much overhead
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[tantek] Even simple things (user features) end up requiring touching lots of files :(
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[tantek] Yes the # of files problem is what turns me off from most OSS
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Zegnat My blog is built around an HTML field. But I definitely had problems there with figuring out how much wrapping the CMS should do. I started with h-entry+e-content wrapping. Then dropped the e-content when I noticed I wanted to be able to add metadata that shouldn’t be in there. Then dropped the h-entry when I also wanted to start posting events.
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[tantek] as in actually trying to contribute to and or use OSS libraries or frameworks
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[tantek] Actually even directories in a Github repo are a turnoff.
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sknebel yeah, I post a bunch of not-ideal markup because my site works similarly
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sknebel keep meaning to have it look in the content in more detail, but haven't gotten around to it yet, always other things more interesting :D
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[jgmac1106] which is where I think I would end up back at empty HTML box....but also thinking about students...they would need a UI....but micrpub clients can be the UI
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[tantek] Not sure why there’s such a pattern / habit of complexity (hierarchy of folders, lots of files, lots of micromanaged mini OOP classes) among what seem to be majority of OSS devs & projects
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[jgmac1106] a note is easy: https://indiewebcoursetemplate.glitch.me/updates.html I can layout every page the way I want..what i don;'t know is post type discovery..if HTML contains X dispaly on page Y...and have no idea how to get webmentions to display...need all the plumbing
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Zegnat You could do what tantek (and I think kevinmarks?) is doing and load the webmentions from off-site. No need to have that implemented yourself
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] it is interesting...I think one distinction OSS as part of a company...you nee to justify your salary
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[jgmac1106] been thinking there are three types of OSS a company that releases OSS (Ghost) , a company that works openly and releases OSS (Mozilla...though working openly getting reduced), company who dominates an Open Source space (Automattic)
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[tantek] Few OSS projects should need to be more than just one folder of flat files, and even then only a few files
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[jgmac1106] Few OSS are just community supported and the focus on show not tell has help to protect against that influence
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] there are many more types of OSS projects / companies - see if you can find the Mozilla “Open Innovation” report on this - pretty sure it’s a public PDF somewhere.
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[tantek] They did a lot of formal measuring, research, and analysis on this
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Zegnat I like it when there is a separate folders for the source and tests. Beyond that I am pretty ambivilant to folders
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[tantek] Would love to chat more with you about that
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sknebel that's how you get the JS ecosystem on NPM: tons of tiny projects instead of larger-sized groupings? :D
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[jgmac1106] watching how ClassicPress is growing, committees, steering committees, marketing channels...all the stuff around the product before the product....there is a large Moz Rep influence...the structure you folks buuild into people gets reflected
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[jgmac1106] I was involved with the research on Open Innovation tangentially familiar
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[tantek] Zegnat I hate “source” folders. No, the top level folder / Github project repo *is* the source folder. Quit hiding the important stuff in nested folders!!!
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[jgmac1106] okay back to the h-resume....could just find a CSS grid aleady done...bu t wha'ts the fun...
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Zegnat I disagree. Because when I want to just checkout the files I need, I can much easier just grab the source folder and leave the test folder behind. If tests are interwoven with actual source things get murky real quickly.
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Zegnat At least in my experience with PHP
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[tantek] and if I have to click more than one folder deep I just close the project. Not interested in something that complex. Less work to write it myself than understand someone’s else’s rando overly complex folder hierarchy.
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[tantek] Excess folder hierarchy = murky. That’s the problem. Deep folder hierarchy is literally murky, you cannot easily see beyond just one layer
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[jgmac1106] that being said, I like the modular vision Known went for...a small core with all the plumbing and a ton of compatible community plugins is a good design....in theory...if it was summer and not winter break I might take the steps of trying top make a minimal CMS
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[jgmac1106] just need an engine to and the hooks, have fun all be back later
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Zegnat “you cannot easily see beyond just one layer” - that is exactly my point with the source and test folder divide though. You do not need to see the 26 txt files and the PHPUnit TestCase if you are interested in the source of my library. Just read the source folder.
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Zegnat (I am noy advocating for more subfolders beyond that. As I said, ambivalent on that point.)
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[jgmac1106] I have about 2 million dolalrs in grants pending if any of them hit I get to build whatever we want
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[tantek] Zegnat no because everyone names “source” differently and you have to hunt anyway. Or they make one source folder then they split that into more. Includes, templates, etc etc
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[tantek] Yes to subfolders for the extra min-source stuff like tests, any project dependency stuff, documentation
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[tantek] But no source subfolders. Just keep all source at the top level where it is directly visible
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[tantek] extra non-source* stuff. Darn autocorrect
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Zegnat I already have 6 configuration files that go into almost all my git repos’ root. I am happy to put the actual project sources in a source directory, haha
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /create (+475) "/* Brainstorming */" (view diff)
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Zegnat looks at https://github.com/Zegnat/php-innertext and shakes head at all the config files he drags along
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Loqi [Zegnat] php-innertext: 🏃🐉 Run. Here be dragons.
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Zegnat sknebel++ the python repo is a lot cleaner
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Loqi sknebel has 18 karma in this channel over the last year (89 in all channels)
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sknebel sknebel--
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Loqi sknebel: You can't karma yourself!
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sknebel wtf Loqi
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sknebel Zegnat: not for good reasons
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Zegnat Lol
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[tantek] Hah
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[tantek] Zegnat why not stick the config files in a “config” folder instead?
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[tantek] This is UX 101 IMO. Put the commonly used things (actual source files) as top level “options” (flat in the repo folder), then put less used options (config, tests, docs) in submenus/folders
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Zegnat Because that is not where the tools look for them. You’d then have to go into the config folder to have composer grab dependencies or for PHPUnit to know where to find the tests.
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[tantek] Fix the tools
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[tantek] Folder hierarchy for the devs first, machines second
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Zegnat But as I said, I am actually pretty happy with the tools and also this hierarchy, so no reason for me personally to fix the tools ;)
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[tantek] Perhaps a reason I don’t bother with such tools either
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[tantek] I’m not going to pollute my top level repo for poorly designed tools
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[tantek] I think I have allowed others to do so though in some cases like CASSIS
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Zegnat The ease of running phpunit without any extra command line options to specify far outweights it adding an extra file to my repo, for instance.
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Zegnat And I don’t even run that many default files. Just look at https://github.com/thephpleague/skeleton for what the PHP League thinks of as an “empty” starter repo.
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Loqi [thephpleague] skeleton: A skeleton repository for League Packages
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Zegnat I just realised this whole conversation ended up in meta, woops!
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[kevinmarks] [jgmac1106] have you tried inkstone as a more configurale micropub client?
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jgmac1106 no, and hard to believe anything is swentel configurable, usually you ask for somethign and ten mintues later it is pushed
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jgmac1106 What is inkstone?
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Loqi InkStone (formerly MobilePub) is a web app for posting various items to your website using micropub https://indieweb.org/inkstone
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jgmac1106 ohh web, I don’t really micropu on the web, usually just in the cms
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jgmac1106 …of course if I went no cms I would need to figure out a web micropub client….never thought about that…if there are third parties to handle webmentions and stuff mayve I can get a blank box by not really using a CMS at all
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sknebel arg, custom <div> on /Events. how did I miss that...
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sknebel is wrangling wikiediting code
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Loqi misses that too
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tantek.com edited /dweb2018 (+222) "update video link, thanks aaronpk!" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 Really my "box" I want for #IndieWeb publishing should be your browser. Why File>New>Type some HTML>Publish isn't a feature of modern day browsers boggles my mind. Always the dream @toolness @iamjessklein and I shared in the hackasaurus days (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/zJpnn) (twitter.com/_/status/1074386194727788545)
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[tantek] set your browser homepage to your site /create UI and that's exactly how it works today 🙂
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[tantek] type some ... stuff at least 😉
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[jgmac1106] yeah...I can do that...so I guess I mean a littl ebit more..we had no idea what we were doing and visions of this big remixable web
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tantek.com edited /multi-photo (+408) "/* Instagram */ no longer requires square multiphotos, just all items having the same aspect ratio, and that ratio is still capped a bit" (view diff)
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jgmac1106 but why isn’t the create UI native rethink the space as both a pallete and a browser
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sknebel Beaker does that the most right now
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jgmac1106 yeah I like playine with Beaker….and that’s what Atul keeps telling me to try
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[tantek] !tell aaronpk I think there have only been tweets/notes requesting IndieAuth in Mastodon, still waiting for an issue to be filed (and linked from https://indieweb.org/Mastodon#IndieAuth_Provider ) <-- maybe existing links there can help?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] what is 2018-review
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2018-review" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "2018-review is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] 2018-review is a list of indieweb and indiewebcamp accomplishments for all of 2018, as well as indieweb-related news in 2018. See [[2017-review]] and start copying/filling out sections from there!
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /2018-review (+224) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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calumryan.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+243) "/* 2018 */ Blogging and me by Ana" (view diff)
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www.svenknebel.de created /User:Www.svenknebel.de/emojitest (+238) "🤦‍♂️" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /silo-quits (+459) "/* Silo quitters 2018 */ Instapundit Glenn Reynolds quit Twitter / link to USA Today article." (view diff)
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sknebel I think I now got the difficult bits of the code for editing /Events figured out
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@JosephRooks ↩️ I am quite fond of the IndieWeb crowd even though I haven’t had time to do much. Glad there are still some factions of people fighting the good fight. (twitter.com/_/status/1074441335472562177)
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@vincentlistens ✅ Micropub ✅ Send webmentions ✅ Receive webmentions ✅ Media endpoint Just syndication to go now before I’m doing all the basics! #indieweb #webmention (twitter.com/_/status/1074450054927302657)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /webmention.io (+38) (view diff)