#meta 2018-12-20

2018-12-20 UTC
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@bradenslen Indieweb, Old Stuff and Google https://indieseek.xyz/2018/12/19/indieweb-old-stuff-and-google/ (twitter.com/_/status/1075546712784203776)
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loqi.me edited /event (+418) "[tantek] added "https://twitter.com/mspowahs/status/1075209376950935552" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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GWG I really want an IWC LA plus Disneyland experience right now.
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@smerrill ↩️ Used to use TT-RSS but the lead dev was pretty toxic. Turned me off from the project. Suspect you'd be interested in https://indieweb.org/reader (see also https://aaronparecki.com/2018/03/12/17/building-an-indieweb-reader), and the broader Indieweb effort. (twitter.com/_/status/1075554597723389954)
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GWG That's why I left TT-RSS also
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Yes! Let's bring back blog discovery!! I added a following page to my blog I am building on @glitch https//jgmac1106homepage.glitch.com/following. And @grantcoxes built an IndieWeb directory on @Glitch. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/hJ0uF) (twitter.com/_/status/1075563512955584512)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ You mean like these on https://microcast.club/ and the #IndieWeb ring @schmarty build you can find that on @glitch here: https://steady-sundial.glitch.me/ We have a team going here: https://glitch.com/@indieweb We want to make 2019 the year of the web… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/20/faeruntheworld-you-mean-like-these-on (twitter.com/_/status/1075566449043886080)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ The goal is to get all the #IndieWeb building blocks up on @glitch so people can spin up any blogging platform they want or use the awesome one push Ghost blog feature... We don't need to talk about a better web. We need to build it. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/PIoGh) (twitter.com/_/status/1075566786664390661)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ If you do end up quitting facebook ( I believe we now have a moral obligation) please reach out so we can add you here: https://indieweb.org/silo-quits (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1zd36O) (twitter.com/_/status/1075567713207103488)
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jgregorymcverry.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:nofacebookbadge.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:nofacebookbadge.png"
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jgregorymcverry.com created /nofacebook-badge (+923) "added a no facebook webmention badge" (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ If @basecamp or your personal website accepts webmentions we can give you a no facebook badge from the #IndieWeb wiki https://indieweb.org/nofacebook-badge (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1RVIjd) (twitter.com/_/status/1075571259960901632)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ If you do do it we can even award you a verifiable No Facebook Badge from the #Indieweb.org wiki https://indieweb.org/nofacebook-badge (you need to accept webmentions or otherwise manually add it) Happy to help. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/gy5Az) (twitter.com/_/status/1075571852142104581)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /nofacebook-badge (+8) (view diff)
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@jgmac1106 Hey if anyone is around and wants to learn more about #IndieWeb @dshanske and I are going to start up an impromptu virtual Homebrew Website club in like five minutes...I will post a link in a few #literacies #IndieWeb #DoOO #digped (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/jFv1M) (twitter.com/_/status/1075581210645143552)
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@jgmac1106 Here are the details for the virtual pop up homebrew website club: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/20/virtual-homebrew-website-club (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/1Stwzw) (twitter.com/_/status/1075584610464137216)
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[jgmac1106] back
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david.shanske.com edited /2018-12-indieweb-challenge (+122) (view diff)
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mlncn.withknown.com edited /Drupal (+226) "make clear connection to the transformative Indieweb module" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG++ nice work!
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Loqi GWG has 13 karma in this channel over the last year (160 in all channels)
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@asuh ↩️ Have you heard of @indiewebcamp? This is a growing community of web folks eager for your same hopes trying to recapture an independent web outside of social media (https://asuh.com/communities/) (twitter.com/_/status/1075627118426353664)
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chrisaldrich jgmac1106 Basecamp cc'd a Facebook Free badge at: https://basecamp.com/nofu/fb-free-badge.png
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[Vincent] awesome!
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@HiMYSYeD We Should Replace Facebook With Personal Websites. Personal websites and email can replace most of what people like about Facebook—namely the urge to post about their lives online. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbanny/we-should-replace-facebook-with-personal-websites?utm_source=vicetwitterus | #blogging #indieweb #posse #DeleteFacebook (twitter.com/_/status/1075668981497749504)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Webmention (+526) "added information about my usage of webmention" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz created /User:Beesbuzz.biz (+1385) "a bit about me" (view diff)
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beesbuzz.biz edited /Webmention (+22) (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:fb-free-badge.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:fb-free-badge.png"
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /nofacebook-badge (+1) "switched image" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com edited /Special:Log/upload () "uploaded a new version of "[[File:fb-free-badge.png]]"" (view diff)
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jgregorymcverry.com deleted /File:fb-free-badge.png "Deleted old revision 20181220102916!fb-free-badge.png: too big"
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jgregorymcverry.com deleted /File:fb-free-badge.png "need new size"
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jgregorymcverry.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:fb-free-badge250.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:fb-free-badge250.png"
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[jgmac1106] !tell chrisaldrich now with our color scheme: https://indieweb.org/nofacebook-badge
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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@petermolnar ↩️ there's a lot more, than that. See https://indieweb.org/Webmention , https://indieweb.org/WebSub , https://indieweb.org/Micropub and https://www.activitystream.com/ for a start. (twitter.com/_/status/1075706299374075904)
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@jgmac1106 Hey everyone we remixed the badge from dhh and if your website receives mentions, and you meet badge criteria listed on https://indieweb.org/nofacebook-badge just let me know and we can isuue you a verifiable http://IndieWeb.org “no facebook badge” (twitter.com/_/status/1075740213828292613)
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@jgmac1106 Remixed the @dhh no @facebook badge and you can be issued one from the #indieweb wiki let me know if interested https://t.co/PtRcQqzBxL (twitter.com/_/status/1075740533975339008)
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@thalidanoel ↩️ As someone who never gave up my personal domain, I think it'd work well for those who like talking into the void AND have the wherewithal to setup and manage their own domain #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1075745127791034369)
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@tylerpmorley ↩️ This sounds like a great time to mention @indiewebcamp, which is a movement to make personal websites more convenient to use as social networking nodes. (twitter.com/_/status/1075770481159036928)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ And we already brought back the webring! You can find them on most #IndieWeb sites like https://martymcgui.re (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/sCUwy) (twitter.com/_/status/1075771817292312577)
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@petermolnar ↩️ there's a lot more, than that. See https://indieweb.org/Webmention , https://indieweb.org/WebSub , https://indieweb.org/Micropub and https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/ for a start. (twitter.com/_/status/1075780975357976581)
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tantek.com edited /Microsub-spec (+30) "float the TOC left since it is so wide" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Microsub-spec (+129) "dfn here includes spec, quick call out at top for users in case they wind up here, and are just looking to get started" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Microsub (+277) "move indieweb examples after clients (for users wanting to get started right away, preview screenshots closer to the top), put iOS and Android side by side for mobile folks, spec is not main, but rather a callout for devs, move Together after screenshots" (view diff)
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[tantek] Did another presentational (and somewhat semantic) update to /Microsub to hopefully appeal to more folks that might land there directly (from Twitter etc.)
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[tantek] Please take a look and review: https://indieweb.org/Microsub
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[tantek] I emphasized mobile clients, showed iOS & Android side by side, and put anything without screenshots below those with screenshots
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[jgmac1106] bumped from chat: nope, I am going to have something by Jan, bc it can be self contained
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[jgmac1106] for students I started on WP I will keep on WP but moving forward I think I can layout a platform in Glitch and just give kid a tempalte folder and say...copy post type X, add your content and you are done
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[jgmac1106] making a platform for my student with article, note, reply, photo and then using @mblaney's unicyclic for our social reader
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[jgmac1106] next semester is a push I have a book and a grant to finish
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[grantcodes] There are a bunch of recent good looking together screenshots that could be added [tantek]
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[tantek] Please do!
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[jgmac1106] grab them right from [eddie]'s website
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[jgmac1106] one from monocole, one from unicyclic
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[tantek] I still think it's correct to emphasize and lead with mobile screenshots
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[tantek] as I think most users will be most compelled by that
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[jgmac1106] agree all CTA need to mobile first...i want to kick myself for saying that, sounds so SEO
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[tantek] lololol
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[tantek] what is CTA
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "CTA" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "CTA is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[eddie] grab what from my website? lol
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[eddie] is confused
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[grantcodes] [jgmac1106] yes I suppose it depends what the goal is. I guess your system is going to involve people copying files and manually writing html with mf2?
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[grantcodes] That was RE glitch indieweb stuff
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[jgmac1106] yep, and then they can all sign up for unicyclic and I have a class reader...though this would require micropub so I couldn't do that ye either
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[jgmac1106] I mean let's get to the smallest HTMl file blog there..I may not make it for Jan but I can layout a template in a way to help kids grow into HTML and CSS
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[jgmac1106] Keep saying the dumbest lesson we learned from web 2.o as teachers was, "now we can all be online without knowing HTML (opr insert Grant's this will be better than HTML flavor of the month) instead of , "Ohh shit now everyone better know HTML if we want them to know how any of this works"
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[jgmac1106] Call to Acrtion, sorry
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eddiehinkle.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+126) "/* 2018 */ add video of swentel's talk" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /reply (+68) "/* Post a reply */ repair fragment How_to_markup" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /u-reply-of (+33) "r because jgmac1106 used this unused classname in chat" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks] Call to Acton? https://acton.org/research/lord-acton-quote-archive
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[jgmac1106] where do I find img to building blocks: https://indieweb.org/Category:building-blocks
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[jgmac1106] we should add img here, I can't find it
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Loqi agreed.
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[jgmac1106] quick with the puns that one, but great reminder for IndieWeb as well
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] who would such an image serve? and why?
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[tantek] part of what we have deliberately avoided is such marketecture diagrams that turn out to be nearly useless, and almost always deceiving
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[tantek] what is marketecture?
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Loqi marchitecture is a term for architecture-like diagrams that contain lots of jargon, buzzwords, or marketing phrases for sales or political reasons yet make little actual sense, especially if you look at the apparent or implied relationships therein https://indieweb.org/marketecture
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[jgmac1106] it has all the building blocks in a hexagon shape, it would serve us making these presentations
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[tantek] you just want something pretty to look cool?
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[jgmac1106] "make little sense" is dependent on the author, not I want to present information in multiple modalities so it is learned through repeated exposure.
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[tantek] Aside: we have only 12 days left in the IndieWeb Challenge! Congrats to all the contributors so far for 19 contiguous days of IndieWeb presents for the community!!!
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Events (+16) "/* November */ Update drupalcamp ghent stub" (view diff)
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] what's the information you're trying to present?
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[jgmac1106] I am just looking for the building block images with all the parts...I want to be able to explain indieweb in an elevator speech
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[tantek] image != speech
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[jgmac1106] speech + img > speech
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[tantek] in an elevator? lol
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[tantek] is this the kind of marketing image you're looking for? (see if you can spot what needs improving 🙂 ) https://indieweb.org/images/8/88/BuildingBlocks.svg
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[jgmac1106] found it: https://indieweb.org/2019/Vlissingen
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swentel ah I used that one in my presentation
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[tantek] so I suppose having an inaccurate image is motivation to make a better one
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swentel this is also a good one for building blocks :) https://realize.be/presentations/indieweb-drupalcampgent-2018/#/5
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swentel everyone was looking at me like 'oh no, this is going to be hard to follow' :)
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[tantek] hey [jgmac1106] if you want to make it actual clickable / search engine friendly HTML instead of dead-end static SVG, feel free to copy some code from my very very old CSS hexagons 🙂 http://tantek.com/map.html
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[tantek] swentel, they were not wrong. there's lot of buzzwords & jargon there
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gkbrk.com edited /chat-names (-1) (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com created /events/2018-11-24-drupalcamp-ghent (+883) "Add event page for Drupal Camp Ghent" (view diff)
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[tantek] eddie++
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Loqi eddie has 10 karma in this channel over the last year (86 in all channels)
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swentel hmm, it's belgium, not germany :)
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realize.be edited /events/2018-11-24-drupalcamp-ghent (+0) "Belgium" (view diff)
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[eddie] oops!
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[eddie] sorry about that swentel 🙂
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swentel heh, no worries
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[tantek] swentel, this slide so much: https://realize.be/presentations/indieweb-drupalcampgent-2018/#/9
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[jgmac1106] ..dang no microsub logo in that pic
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[eddie] swentel++ for a great presentation
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Loqi swentel has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (35 in all channels)
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swentel first parts is heavily inspired by chris aldrich's presentation
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[eddie] ohh very cool. I haven't gotten a chance to see his
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[jgmac1106] gonna just turn the websub up side down...it is such a good talk!!
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[jgmac1106] in reality microsub sending info down to...and a W upside down is an M
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swentel this one: https://boffosocko.com/research/presentations/wordpress-and-indieweb/
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swentel not sure if there's a video though
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[eddie] ahh nice
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[tantek] we should have a topical wiki page that corresponds to each of these slides
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Loqi definitely
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[tantek] e.g. # 5 is https://indieweb.org/building-blocks
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[tantek] # 7 is /silos
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tantek.com edited /silo (+29) "like most social media" (view diff)
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[eddie] I'm pretty excited that we have only 12 days left in the IndieWeb challenge and have 19 contiguous days!!
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[eddie] That is awesome
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[eddie] I still have a couple bigger lifts I'm trying to finish up so we can include them in the challenge
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[eddie] I fear one won't make it though, because Indiepaper for iOS in the App Store requires Apple's approval and I'm thinking we might be near a point of no return on that one with the holiday breaks in the App Store
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tantek.com edited /algorithmic (+44) "grammar" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /algorithm (+276) "add indieweb relevance to dfn, silos, negative connotations" (view diff)
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[tantek] Updated definition in particular for common indieweb and related usage:
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[tantek] Please review:
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[tantek] what are algorithms
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Loqi An algorithm in general is a series of steps used to to automatically perform computations and other operations to produce a result; on the IndieWeb many standards have user-centric algorithms for peer to peer site interactions; social media silos have user-exploitative algorithms for advertising and reinforcing addictive behaviors https://indieweb.org/algorithms
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[tantek] hopefully appropriate for # 11 in swentel's slide deck: https://realize.be/presentations/indieweb-drupalcampgent-2018/#/11
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@AlfonsoRomay Con cada tarascada de las redes sociales, volvemos a la vieja idea de la #indieweb que proponía @t hace años y que comparto al 100% https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/vbanny/we-should-replace-facebook-with-personal-websites (twitter.com/_/status/1075808910211198977)
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tantek.com edited /algorithm (+501) "describe what social media algorithms do and their goals, add YouTube Up Next" (view diff)
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@AlfonsoRomay ↩️ Escribí sobre la #indieweb hace mucho tiempo: http://alfonsoromay.com/2012/07/movimientos-hacia-una-web-independiente/ (twitter.com/_/status/1075810442763743232)
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[eddie] Yep, that seems good
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@jgmac1106 My Attempt at Representing #IndieWeb in an Image. https://t.co/HdgSTa1PGh (twitter.com/_/status/1075815293354688512)
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[jgmac1106] [tantek] going to steal tha hex hnav menu for sure!! Have so many use cases for it
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[grantcodes] Oh cool, spanish speaking indieweb! I need to figure out something about multiple languages on my site!
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loqi.me created /GraphQL (+371) "prompted by KartikPrabhu and dfn added by [grantcodes]" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /GraphQL (+40) "[grantcodes] added "https://graphql.org/" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[tantek] Wow [jgmac1106] that’s a pretty impressive diagram! Especially for a first draft!
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[tantek] The only thing that threw me is Isabel syndicating her *comment* to social media sites when the original was not. That’s a bit odd and I don’t think anyone actually does that?
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[tantek] What if Janice syndicates her cat picture to social media instead?
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[tantek] And Isabel only replies directly to the original post?
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Loqi http://meme.loqi.me/m/4y5BydhY.jpg
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[eddie] [jgmac1106]++ Great first draft of the diagram!
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Loqi [jgmac1106] has 40 karma in this channel over the last year (95 in all channels)
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[eddie] This might be too complicated for the diagram, but the one thing that throws me is Microsub is set as coming FROM janice.com TO isabel's phone.
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[eddie] I'm not sure if there is a simple way to depict what is actually happening, which is isabel's website (or external service, but we can keep it as her website for now) reads janice's website and then the arrow would go from janice's website to her phone
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[eddie] That said, for laypeople maybe the current arrow direction is the best? Just wondering if it will cause any confusion that the reader is actually interacting with janice.com (which it's not)
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[tantek] the POSSE arrow is my only big concern, as noted
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[tantek] the rest is allowable simplification for the sake of general communication
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tantek.com edited /GraphQL (-265) "rm marketing sentence, dupe see also" (view diff)
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[tantek] do we need @ indiewebcampes ?
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[tantek] !rt https://twitter.com/AlfonsoRomay/status/1075808910211198977
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Loqi Thanks! We need one more person to confirm the retweet!
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[tantek] what are benefits?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "benefits" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "benefits is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] benefits are /why
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /benefits (+16) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] swentel, closest to # 16 is https://indieweb.org/why
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[tantek] for # 17 too
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[tantek] 18 is clearly indieweb.org 🙂
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[tantek] 19 is /principles
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[tantek] 20 is /HWC
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swentel hmm adding links to those slides is probably a good idea for the next talk
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swentel should write that down
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[tantek] swentel WDYT of [jgmac1106]'s diagram https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Du4QTsXWsAAw95y.png ?
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[tantek] do you think that's better / worse / or just different from a "stacked (hex) blocks" diagram of building blocks? at least for presentation / slide purposes
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[tantek] also can't believe how fast [jgmac1106] whipped that up
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[tantek] jgmac1106++
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Loqi jgmac1106 has 41 karma in this channel over the last year (96 in all channels)
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swentel the steps are fine (although I think 2 and 3 can be combined, you don't really post into the reader right)
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@Codango IndieWeb with Wordpress Tutorial: Themes and Microformats - https://codango.com/indieweb-with-wordpress-tutorial-themes-and-microformats/ https://t.co/ErPRBfgxUJ (twitter.com/_/status/1075839034335801344)
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swentel I would also start the syndication arrow from janice.com
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[eddie] That's a good point, swentel. Step 2/3 would be something like "Janice uses her social reader to publish a post over a standard called micropub to her website" (might be able to be shortened, but something to that effect
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swentel same with 5 and 6 no, they can be combined again?
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[eddie] yep
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swentel maybe we can make multiple diagrams
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swentel one with only site-to-site interaction
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swentel another one where a post gets syndicated to twitter
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swentel and then a backfeed comes back
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swentel makes it clearer I think
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[eddie] Look what you started, [jgmac1106]! hahaha 😉
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Loqi awesome
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swentel well, that makes simpler diagrams, at least in my head :)
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swentel you can tell different stories then during a talk
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swentel second story is an effective demo too then
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swentel which I did in my talk
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[tantek] I think there are benefits both to simpler diagrams (one per protocol?) to illustrate what it is doing, and to an overall ecosystem diagram that shows how the indieweb building blocks fit together to create a complete system interaction
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[jgmac1106] I tried to design it so the text can be leveled for audience
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[jgmac1106] One is wrong is that you do not log into phone.
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[tantek] The latter is what I think [jgmac1106] was doing and I think is (likely) more beneficial than just abstract building blocks as squares / hexes IMO
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] one is not really wrong. you do have to sign-in to a reader on your phone using your indieauth
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[tantek] it's explainably correct
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[jgmac1106] Yeah might just log into app
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[tantek] but again, using IndieAuth
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[jgmac1106] Gotta go son woke up
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[tantek] and that graphic should say IndieAuth not just "Auth"
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[jgmac1106] It's just a Google draw will share and people can play to hearts content
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[tantek] still quite impressive
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[tantek] is it something we can collaboratively edit?
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grant.codes edited /GraphQL (+111) "Add basic indieweb usecase" (view diff)
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@jalbertbowdenii ↩️ owning your data is much more than that limited definition https://indieweb.org/own_your_data (twitter.com/_/status/1075844136606068747)
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cleverdevil.io edited /GraphQL (+173) (view diff)
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@HiMYSYeD "How I Quit Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, and Amazon." "A reflection on my month without Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, and Amazon, plus a how-to guide if you want to quit the biggest companies in tech. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ev3qw7/how-to-quit-apple-microsoft-google-facebook-amazon | #DeleteFacebook #indieweb #posse (twitter.com/_/status/1075845006898823168)
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[jgmac1106] public edit google doc: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1N6Tpyw310D_2kRK9UQncnvJHPUnbkAFB6cAQ3qQJn1s/edit?usp=sharing
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[jgmac1106] sorry for those with no access, I will lay it out in CSS Grid if I get the chance
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[jgmac1106] @swentel I would say for most users they would report they are writing in their reader...if Indigenous ends up labeled as a social reader.
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[jgmac1106] https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1tHQsbRqOKhJZQm0C1-2x79uWBQEvXPxD7KqtsSFW8bY/edit?usp=sharing
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[jgmac1106] Here is one with no comments and a linear description: https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1tHQsbRqOKhJZQm0C1-2x79uWBQEvXPxD7KqtsSFW8bY/edit?usp=sharing
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jacky nice!
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[kevinmarks] Google draw exports svg
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@jgmac1106 Revisions to Demonstrating How #IndieWeb Works Images: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2018/12/20/revisions-to-demonstrating-how-indieweb-works-images (twitter.com/_/status/1075886415135817730)
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[jgmac1106] yeah it does but my audience deals in pings..still be a fun CSS Grid challenge, kind of make a circle unwind as a display shrinks.
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@JamieTanna We should replace Facebook with personal websites - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18725413 sounds like a great conversation opportunity for the #IndieWeb http://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1075899259139035138)