#meta 2019-01-22

2019-01-22 UTC
#
[eddie] I think every gave a 👍 to 8:30 EST
#
GWG Ok
#
[eddie] [jgmac1106] We’re confirmed for 8:30PM EST
#
jgmac1106 I am cool with that + - “roll the dice bedtime routine” start without me if I am not on time
#
[eddie] Sounds good 👍
#
GWG I'm waiting for the Indieweb version of Goodnite Moon
#
jgmac1106 will hop on as soon as they are all down
#
jgmac1106 ha ha..I did a version of If you gvie a mouse a domian
#
jgmac1106 don’t think I finished itr
[davidmead] joined the channel
#
jgmac1106 https://mouseadomain.glitch.me/#p8 ran out of slides never stopped to figure out how to add new ones…digital storytelling for other time
#
jgmac1106 but I want to turn it more postive rather than history of blogging make the mouse an important engineer of a better futur
#
tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "023" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "HWC 023" (view diff)
[voss] and dmcweeney joined the channel
#
dmcweeney Does anyone know how to get a bootstrap github template to glitch?
j12t and chrisaldrich joined the channel
#
[eddie] !tell GWG any idea what app/service we should use to chat tonight? Google Hangouts (is that still functional?)? Slack? Skype? other?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
GWG Hangouts is still functional.
#
GWG Did you want video or just text?
#
GWG I'm fine with just typing
#
[eddie] That's true, text is fine for me too
#
GWG We just need everyone reading and interacting at the same time
#
[eddie] yeah, that makes sense. That sounds good 👌 we can just take over this channel then 😆
#
jgmac1106 that works waay better for me so I don
#
jgmac1106 t have to whisper.. free in like 5-10
#
[eddie] awesome 👍
#
@ChangelingMx All right. I've decided my next project is to teach myself #IndieWeb. Looking back on it, I've basically been setting myself up ever since I bought my own domain. (twitter.com/_/status/1087527089727856640)
#
jgmac1106 okay they are all down, I can rock and roll
#
[eddie] Awesome, GWG, you here?
#
GWG Can anyone really be said to be here?
#
[eddie] touche
#
jgmac1106 what is h-card?
#
Loqi h-card is the microformats2 vocabulary for marking up people, organizations, and venues on web sites https://indieweb.org/h-card
#
jgmac1106 loqi says they can
#
[eddie] [chrisaldrich] just FYI in case you decide to peek in on us, we're just chatting via text here in meta
#
jgmac1106 but do not checkin while coaching….
#
[eddie] Correct
#
[eddie] Just during half-time 😆
#
[eddie] So first order of business, I think we're good on the dates, Mar 9-10
#
[eddie] When I reached out to the various people that expressed interest, they all seemed positive about that weekend
#
GWG I have nothing planned as of now
#
[eddie] awesome 👍 those are still looking good for you jgmac1106?
#
GWG I should be recovered from Austin
#
jgmac1106 Yes, as is I and then I have New Haven at end of month….kind of thinking about it like a three part project, just don’t know what it is
#
Loqi +1
#
jgmac1106 can we do an etherpad as well?
#
[eddie] Ah, Austin is two weeks before. That's not too bad, especially since we likely will have a different audience.
#
[eddie] Sure
#
[eddie] I don't know how to start those, but if you start one and post the link here, I'll join it
#
jgmac1106 just type a new extension, one sec
#
jgmac1106 https://etherpad.indieweb.org/onlineorganize
#
jgmac1106 taking a few seconds to jot some agenda, I liked eddies idea of starting that way
#
jgmac1106 add stuff or outcomes we can do in 45-60 min
#
[eddie] tantek's you mean? I think that's his thing
#
[eddie] :) but it's good
#
jgmac1106 I am good with that agenda you gwg?
#
GWG Yes
#
[eddie] Looks good to me
#
GWG I'm reading as you type.
#
[eddie] Alright, so first item covered :)
#
[eddie] I think one major thing is the "Welcome" and the "Demos" session times
#
GWG And how we're going to include multiple timezones.
#
[eddie] Correct. We can't get "everyone" but I think we MAY be able to find a time that works for Europe and the U.S.
#
[eddie] I saw a nice website that displayed timezones in a row display but I can't remember what it was
#
jgmac1106 good point gwg at this point we have put feelers out to to the Aussie crowd, now it is matter to see if anyone wants to organize parallel sessions, otherwise we look for times between EU and NA
#
[eddie] it was really nice for finding ideal times across timezones
#
GWG Would we consider a second intro session if we have to, or is that too much?
#
jgmac1106 four thirty UTC (11:30 us) is the bestish I found
#
jgmac1106 breakfast on west coast, lunch on east, dinner to evening in EU depending on far East
#
[eddie] I think a second intro session (while subpar) could be possible depending on who all is doing the intros
#
GWG Just to cover if we have latecomers.
#
[eddie] For example if aaronpk or tantek are doing one of their standard intros, it would depend on their availablility
eli_oat joined the channel
#
[eddie] I think recording it for latecomers could work
#
jgmac1106 yeah and we put the feeelers out there if someone wants to organzie a tiem zone friendlky session during ?Online they may, but let people set and meet their own goals, make sure audience exist
#
jgmac1106 and offer async fullback option, send yopur video in-reply-to X
#
GWG We could also pre-record some things.
#
GWG Frees up time for live discussion
#
[eddie] That's true, we definitely can pre-record some things where it helps
#
[eddie] That's a good point
#
jgmac1106 we may have to split demos in two tracks, I could see shared intro, but everyone’s day ends different time
#
[eddie] Regarding time for welcome, 11am EST is 8am PST
#
[eddie] Is that TOO early?
#
[eddie] it also says 5PM in Berlin
#
jgmac1106 let’s go a little later, 9am is fair given EU members
#
jgmac1106 so 5:30 UTC?
#
[eddie] I should have added UTC to this calendar I'm looking at
#
[eddie] haha
#
Loqi yea!
#
GWG I'm willing to get up early, but not everyone can
#
[eddie] Yeah I think 9am is a standard IWC time, so that shouldn't be too difficult for PST
#
[eddie] that would be 6pm in Berlin
#
[eddie] I'm kind of using that as a Europe time point for me since I know we had enough IndieWeb people to have an IWC there
#
[eddie] Loqi what timezone is zegnat in?
#
[eddie] What time is it for zegnat?
#
Loqi In zegnat's timezone, Europe/Stockholm, it is currently 3:12am on January 22
#
[eddie] Aha! there we go
#
[eddie] 6 hours so that's the same timezone
#
jgmac1106 So if we did the intros somewhere between 5 UTC on Saturday do we do the live demos at 3 pm local timeish?
#
GWG I get the impression I'm going to stay up all weekend.
#
[eddie] haha, why do you say that, GWG?
#
jgmac1106 on. Sunday…common time for demos is hard
#
GWG Just a lot going on.
#
[eddie] Ahh gotcha
#
jgmac1106 so we just publish three times PST, EST, and Berlin and you pick one
#
jgmac1106 or do we just say “live intros” and asynch demos….beauty of online we don’t have cosntraints of being reomived of physical space but want the commuinity vibe still
#
[eddie] I think you could probably merge North America and have two demos worst case scenerio. I'm trying to think, if we have sessions / hack-day sessions start at 5 UTC on Saturday, Europe will have a couple hours, go to sleep and then start in the morning.
#
[eddie] aaronpk mentioned, async demos will likely be scary for people
#
jgmac1106 just say post your demo here by?…maybe both be fun to do some live remote demos
#
[eddie] live demos are scary enough,
#
jacky very
#
jacky I'm pro-pre-record-demo-with-voiceover
#
jgmac1106 so we go with live and offer the asnyc option
#
GWG How about sessions?
#
[eddie] Yeah, I think if someone WANTS to do an async, that's totally an option
#
jgmac1106 im pro record demo and start over every time I curse…I have to redo every one of my wordpress.com tutorials after this
#
[eddie] So the thought about sessions was async around topics
#
jgmac1106 thats a cool idea
#
[eddie] so my thought was we could use something like frameadate.org/doodle
#
[eddie] oops
#
[eddie] that's not a url
#
[eddie] that was two diferent services
#
[eddie] doodle is commercial but frameadate.org is open source
#
jacky lol
#
jgmac1106 or a wiki page or an etherpad...fyi
#
jacky framadate's a scheduling tool
#
[eddie] Well the issue is how do you plan the time of the session
#
jacky https://framadate.org/
#
[eddie] yeah, so the thought is someone creates a time poll with their topic
#
[eddie] adds the link to the wiki
#
jgmac1106 make a ul of timeslots, if you want a session on an issue pick a block
#
GWG Well, last time we had one track, and did standard schedule planning.
#
jgmac1106 oohh okay so upvoting and organizring around topic rather than time?
#
[eddie] My concern with standard schedule planning is which time do we put the sessions at, good for Europe? good for NA?
#
GWG [eddie]: Split day?
#
[eddie] jgmac1106 Yeah, my idea is focus on topic, people put available times and the time that works for the organizer and the most people would win
#
[eddie] GWG so like half the sessions after the welcome, and then half the sessions in the morning in europe?
#
GWG Why not?
#
[eddie] or did I mis-interpret split day?
#
[eddie] It's possible
#
jgmac1106 that is a session grid…its just spread over way more hours
#
jgmac1106 no the session time is good for the proposer …scratch that session window, then go with the time most people sign to
#
jgmac1106 So it would be like hey everyone I want to talk about YAML and Grav, I am available from 10-4, mark the hours you are available, meet the majority of someone available in your time slot if you like the topic too
#
[eddie] GWG do you prefer the standard grid because it's what we've always done in person or because you have reservations about the async sessions?
#
jgmac1106 eddie I just don’t want online to be alone,
#
[eddie] That's fair jgmac1106
#
[eddie] haha
#
[eddie] I guess I do see how it could be an issue, say three people suggest the hours from 10-4
#
[eddie] then a handful of people select their availability, and then two or three sessions all end up with the best time being in the same timeslot
#
jgmac1106 so eddie wants to propose a session on automation, he lists it as a possible topic on wiki page and hours available, people check out the board ans say I liek automoation too, and I am available for an hour at same time
#
[eddie] Then that's not true, because every session that someone decides to attend modifies their availability
#
GWG I'm confused now
#
GWG You are suggesting we grid in advance or day of?
#
GWG Just checking.
#
jgmac1106 ahh okay…yes you need to be able to choose
#
GWG I'm fine with advance.
#
GWG If it works
#
[eddie] So I thought advance
#
jgmac1106 no advanced totally makes sense, I have to check sports schedules, shift coaching around etc
#
[eddie] that could be a challenge for people who are new to IWCs if they get an email in advance asking them to put their interest in for sessions or propose sessions
#
GWG I'd like to try advance. We can't do that at an in-person event
#
GWG [eddie]: What if we leave space for impromptu ones?
#
[eddie] Yeah I think that would be good
#
GWG A mix?
#
[eddie] Totally, impromptu "bird of a feather" are great
#
jgmac1106 but it only takes two eople and an etherpad to make a session so if it happens let it, just won’t be my style...maybe
#
jgmac1106 jinx on impromptu all around
#
[eddie] So we do session planning in advance. We would provide written details for people to explain what is going on, and refer them to chat if they have questions
#
[eddie] so the days leading up to it, we'd want to keep an eye on chat and help direct any people who get confused, but I think that's great
#
jgmac1106 and we should continue letting the idea of never run a session feel free to propose…which may mean etherpad easier than wiki for lower barrier…
#
jgmac1106 actually should add a presession if anyone wants help joining wiki, chat-names, etc
#
[eddie] Yeah that makes sense. Definitely don't make people edit wiki, you're right
#
[eddie] So we can have a session planning etherpad.
#
[eddie] where people can suggest topics and +1 topics
#
GWG Sounds good.
#
jgmac1106 yeah that is my thinkng, break into session suggestion, propose a session,,,basically here is an idea I want or somethign I need help with versus I will run this session
#
[eddie] GWG how do you feel about the general idea of a schedule poll to determine session times or do you strongly perfer a grid?
#
[eddie] jgmac1106 I think you were comfortable with a poll? but if I mis-understood that, feel free to clarify :)
#
jgmac1106 the simple +1 we +1 we always do
#
GWG I think the grid is what we create after the poll is over, if we set cutoffs
#
GWG The poll being the +1
#
[eddie] Gotcha
#
[eddie] Yeah, I think that makes sense
#
[eddie] So we set a cutoff, allow people to suggest sessions. We can create polls and make the links available to people on the same etherpad
#
[eddie] Once people have voted, we can use the poll results to create the official session schedule on the wiki right before the welcome session
#
[eddie] How does that sound
#
[eddie] Or.... since some people at welcome might not be aware if something falls through the cracks
#
[eddie] We can have cutoff be like 30 minutes after Welcome ends
#
GWG Final chance for inspiration?
#
[eddie] that gives any last minute people to hear about it at the Welcome, enter their times and then we close the polls
#
[eddie] Yep
#
jgmac1106 look what I put on etherpad as tempalte somethign like that? eddie
#
[eddie] oops I had changed my browser tab
#
[eddie] haha
#
[eddie] the issue with that is 12 what timezone?
#
jgmac1106 always facilitator local,
#
[eddie] it doesn't seem to have timezone
#
jgmac1106 it was a two second mock up
#
[eddie] Hmmm okay you may be winning me over
#
[eddie] I really wanted use framadate
#
[eddie] haha
#
[eddie] But it's seeming to be that would be a lot of urls to juggle and we would have the same timezone issues as we would with text in etherpad
#
jgmac1106 when plain text works don’t over complciate
#
[eddie] you said to the UI Engineer
#
[eddie] haha
#
jgmac1106 yeah good meetings start to die as soon as a doodle is suggested
#
jgmac1106 simple is the most difficult of design
#
[eddie] Okay, so that is interesting, because then the etherpad would essentially have an example like you listed
#
[eddie] and it would say "to propose a session duplicate the following snippet with your information"
#
jgmac1106 yes and once it gets final time slot it gets moved to official wiki page and an ehterpad ssigned to session
#
jgmac1106 yes
#
[eddie] Yep
#
[eddie] That's pretty good, because then that gives us our official schedule on the wiki, and if two events end up overlappping that's okay people just choose between the two
#
[eddie] same as a standard IWC
#
[eddie] any final thoughts on that GWG?
#
jgmac1106 yep and vote with your feet if you don’t like one session or more likely like one more
#
GWG No, I like it.
#
[eddie] Awesome
#
[eddie] jgmac1106 you listed "revist session format"
#
[eddie] is that what we just talked about or something else?
#
jgmac1106 yeah i think so
#
jgmac1106 really what I was getting at, sync/ asnyc?
#
[eddie] Ahh gotcha
#
[eddie] so next bullet, "checkins" on hack day, what are they and what is the idea behind those?
#
GWG I was going to ask myself.
#
jgmac1106 basically a modified peer coding, not workign on the same thing, but maybe some kind of parner or gamifaction
#
[eddie] So essentially, having people working on similar things when interested?
#
jgmac1106 can be a post asking for webmentions, “Are you hacking today at IWC Online? What did you accomplist last 15/30/60 minutes
#
[eddie] hmmmm that seems like a short timeframe
#
jgmac1106 maybe, just building in community checkins,
#
[eddie] I would be hesitant about that
#
jgmac1106 yeah all hypothetical, but if you blocked out 3-4 hours to hack at an online conference “what is conference…the together part.."
#
[eddie] I think encouraging people on similar topics to group together in Hangouts or something similar, like people first getting their website set up, Wordpress *cough* GWG *cough*
#
jgmac1106 have optional video rooms always running but not required?
#
[eddie] I definitely think having a room or multiple rooms for topics always open is good
#
jgmac1106 https://unhangout.media.mit.edu/?
#
[eddie] Like if on Hackday jgmac1106 you could hang out in a getting started room, GWG could hang out in a Wordpress room and I could hang out in a Micropub/IndieAuth room or something similar
#
[eddie] for people to brainstorm or have questions while they are hacking
#
jgmac1106 …oooh I like that
#
jgmac1106 just set up one room as the “water cooler”…that is a lot of bandwidth though,
#
GWG Interesting
#
GWG I never quite saw the point of recording hack day, but having a feed open to others is nice
#
[eddie] oh cool, Unhangout looks cool
#
[eddie] yeah, especially if the feed is for the online IWC, because when I'm remote I always enjoy streaming the main room on hackday
#
[eddie] even if people aren't talking it's fun
#
jgmac1106 its basically a bunch of pages with two iframes, one for a hangout and one an etherpad, we could do the samething on the wiki
#
[eddie] the last several IWCs I've attended remotely I always have hangouts open on hackday
#
[eddie] ohhh interesting
#
jgmac1106 well not the iframes…you might have to click the links
#
jgmac1106 yeah you need the conference part….but I only have enough bandwidth to run one hangout
#
jgmac1106 need others to verify but I am finding zoom to be way less resource intensive
#
jgmac1106 but I could run one of them on hackday
#
jgmac1106 and we encourage people to start up their own and make sure someone joins mumble to talk to zegnat
#
jgmac1106 exactly eddie (callbak to pad) think in our three column worldveiw of beginner, middle, advanced
#
jgmac1106 but not call them those
#
[eddie] Yeah, that makes sense
#
jgmac1106 getting started, the garage, the engineering room
#
jgmac1106 and water cooler…or just use chat for the water cooler probably why waste bandwidth on banter
#
jgmac1106 and no not those titles just playing with metaphor
#
[eddie] I mean, I can understand people wanting to chat in person
#
[eddie] Awesome, I'm feeling pretty good about this. I can put the 2019 official RSVP page up via PR tomorrow
#
GWG Me too
#
[eddie] jgmac1106 looks like you volunteers to put the wiki page up
#
GWG I get to be inspired in my PJs
#
[eddie] hahaha
#
[eddie] nice
#
Loqi hehe
#
[eddie] Any other thoughts or questions you guys wanna discuss before we call it a night?
#
[eddie] We will still need to nail down the demos time potentially
#
[eddie] and if that will be 1, 2 or 3 sessions but I think we can think about it and come back around
#
jgmac1106 sweet, yeah I need to finish this class: https://edu407.glitch.me/ and now that my nav is so long I really need to figure out a media query to convert my nav grid area into a flexbox or add js for a collapsible menu……but for now really long list….need to redesign my tempaklte..don’t know why I can’t do grid areas as well as explicit grids and rows
#
[eddie] ohhh yeah, long navs are challenging
#
[eddie] GWG I think we should use your post as the tagline
#
[eddie] "Get inspired in your PJs"
#
[eddie] 🙌
#
GWG [eddie]: That is not a t-shirt I am proposing.
#
jgmac1106 well good night all…we can plan again in a week or two
#
[eddie] hahaha
#
[eddie] sounds good. have a good one, guys
#
[eddie] I do have some homework I have to wrap up in the next 2 hours
#
[eddie] haha!
#
jgmac1106 I curate the gwg t-shirts, not gwg
#
[eddie] 👎 college classes
#
jgmac1106 what are you studying eddie?
#
[eddie] I'm wrapping up my CS degree
#
[eddie] I never finished it when i was in Hawai'i
#
[eddie] because .... Hawai'i
#
jgmac1106 same I have to get this ready…new class they never taught and they say oh yeah make it online….it takes.a ton of work
#
[eddie] oh no!
#
[eddie] yeah that doesn't seem easy
#
jgmac1106 yeah but I enjoy it, WP.com screwed me a bit as I have to redo tutorials….the hardest lesson for the first two weeks is simpl;y learnign what is a url and how do I share the url from my post from the wp.com editor
#
jgmac1106 ./..its actually a really crappuy UI IMO
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /2019/Online/Planning (+1893) "/* Brainstorming */ add meeting notes" (view diff)
#
[eddie] I just copied the notes from the Etherpad to that page
#
[eddie] https://indieweb.org/2019/Online/Planning#Meeting_Notes
#
jgmac1106 scarcth that just got easier not sure when but went to go show you how confusing it is but it isn’t anymore
#
GWG jgmac1106: Which is, the Block Editor?
#
jgmac1106 wordpress.com gutenberg editor…it used to be yoiu had to know where to click on a link icon that had a hover state near the title….horrible hidden UI…I used to spend two weeks sorting out here is my post: https://wordpress.com/block-editor/post/drmacsthinkingspace.wordpress.com/33
[jgmac1106], [davidmead], sl007 and [eddie] joined the channel
#
@t going to @IndieWebCamp Austin 2019-02-23…24! Join us! Make 2019 the year you own your content and switch social media to just distribution. Limited $5 tickets: https://2019.indieweb.org/austin All levels! Get started, create, innovate. #indieweb #dweb More: http://tantek.com/t4yc1 (twitter.com/_/status/1087575372126916609)
#
@ChrisAldrich ↩️ Congratulations on launching into the #IndieWeb in 2019! If it helps, @mxbck recently wrote some excellent articles on using Eleventy to syndicate content to Twitter & add Webmention functionality. Both can be found at: https://indieweb.org/Eleventy #newwwyear https://boffosocko.com/2019/01/21/reply-to-feed-page-by-andy-bell/ (twitter.com/_/status/1087592422404612096)
#
boffosocko.com edited /directory (+290) "/* Examples in the Wild */ personalsit.es/" (view diff)
#
@ChrisAldrich ↩️ In addition to resources like chat-names, Indie Map's list, as well as some planets, OPML resources like my own IndieWeb list, and the IndieWeb web ring, this could be another interesting directory creation method for IndieWeb-specific websites. [more...] https://boffosocko.com/2019/01/21/personal-sites-are-awesome/ (twitter.com/_/status/1087611256259760129)
chrisaldrich and sl007 joined the channel
#
mxb.at created /User:Mxb.at (+321) "User Page for Max Böck" (view diff)
#
jacky ayeee
[pfefferle] joined the channel
#
mxb.at edited /User:Mxb.at (+419) (view diff)
#
jacky I really like mxb.at's site
#
jacky like it's pretty, functional and fast
[frank] and [Rose] joined the channel
#
@vincentlistens I've seen quite a few blogs recently linking directly to http://webmention.io for their #webmentions. This is not recommended. http://Webmention.io only holds on to webmentions for up to 30 days and there is a limit on numbers held per blog Save them somewhere! #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1087642972777312256)
#
blog.voss.co edited /Planning (+15) "/* Dusseldorf */" (view diff)
#
blog.voss.co edited /Planning (+63) "/* Dusseldorf */" (view diff)
[Dilara_Cakir], [kevinmarks] and [xavierroy] joined the channel
#
sknebel random thought from yesterday/main right now: Is Nautilus reliable enough to have the !rt and newsletter function for Activitypub too?
[Vincent], [jgmac1106] and sl007 joined the channel
#
@davidmead That's a great write-up @bridgetstewart. Have you hopped on the #indieweb Slack/IRC yet? Good resource if you have questions. (https://davidjohnmead.com/s/24Ovyj) (twitter.com/_/status/1087685306269069317)
#
@jgmac1106 Had a wonderful meeting last night with https://eddiehinkle.com and https://david.shanske.com planning @IndieWebCamp Online: https://indieweb.org/2019/Online/Planning#Meeting_Notes 3/9-3/10 Stay tuned for details #mb #literacies #DoOO #digped #edtechchat #TakeBackTheWeb… https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/01/22/had-a-wonderful-meeting-last-night-with (twitter.com/_/status/1087686308284325888)
swentel, swentie, [xavierroy] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
@jgmac1106 @LeftyWilliams42 Thanks for the follow. Super impressed by @HLWDARE2DREAM love the mission and modern hybrid approach you take to character development through sports. We should team up and encourage #IndieWeb sports blogging among your ambassadors. (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/la6H7) (twitter.com/_/status/1087713376736763905)
[kevinmarks] and [davidmead] joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /pin (+436) "/* markup details */ mastodon info" (view diff)
[voss] joined the channel
#
kevinmarks.com edited /pin (+130) "/* markup details */ add aaron example" (view diff)
#
petermolnar should we make an indieweb-glossary somehow?
#
petermolnar the "For me what it's hard is to understand all the concepts in all protocols ... for example WebSub." sentence in the main channel got me thinking
#
jeremycherfas Isn't the wiki a kind of glossary already, with all the dfns?
#
petermolnar it is, yes; what I was thinking about is kind of a cheat-sheet of indieweb terminology
#
jeremycherfas I think that would be handy, and a good start would be to scrape all dfns from the wiki onto a single page that could then be gardened.
[pfefferle] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
aaronpk What is jargon?
#
Loqi jargon is a specific unobvious word, concept, or technology (like Webmention), or re-use of a word to mean something other than its common meaning (like feed), or sometimes re-using a word as an acronym (like POSSE) https://indieweb.org/jargon
#
aaronpk what are building blocks?
#
Loqi Building blocks are key design-patterns, technologies, and methods for building and improving your independent website https://indieweb.org/building-blocks
#
aaronpk some are there already
#
aaronpk sknebel: yea it's totally ready for that. It's missing good handling for comments and replies but I used it for broadcast stuff a bunch
#
jeremycherfas Yes, what would be good would be to make them easier to find, maybe from the home page, or from the beginners' home page, when that comes into being.
[chrisburnell] joined the channel
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /story (+589) "/* Silo Examples */ add criticism and brainstorming" (view diff)
jackjamieson, [eddie], [schmarty], [smerrill] and [Vincent] joined the channel
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /story (+107) "/* Brainstorming */ add link to chat logs" (view diff)
swentel and [grantcodes] joined the channel
#
petermolnar aaaah. jargon. I looked at terminology, glossary, vocabulary, but not at jargon
[Rose] and [jgmac1106] joined the channel
#
@jackjamieson ↩️ wrote a nice review about the state of IndieWeb in WordPress. Overall, there’s been a lot of progress, and it is much simpler to set up an IndieWeb site in WordPress now than it was 1-2 years ago. Moreover, thanks largely to dshankse’s efforts, things… https://jackjamieson.net/?p=3158 (twitter.com/_/status/1087765632924438528)
jackjamieson, tomasparks and dougbeal|mb1 joined the channel
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /story (+166) "/* Brainstorming */ Add brainstorming thread" (view diff)
[davidmead] joined the channel
#
@jgmac1106 Paper Prototype of #IndieWeb Story Builder: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/01/22/paper-prototype-of-indieweb-story-builder (twitter.com/_/status/1087776611729108992)
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /story (+144) "/* Brainstorming */ add link to zuck.js JSON format" (view diff)
chrisaldrich and [schmarty] joined the channel
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /story (+569) "/* Brainstorming */ add some notable examples from Zuck.js examples" (view diff)
[chrisaldrich] joined the channel
#
@leekelleher ↩️ https://indieweb.org/webmentions https://webmention.io is a free service for it, along with https://brid.gy for monitoring platforms like Twitter, GitHub. (twitter.com/_/status/1087787211620274179)
#
[eddie] [chrisaldrich] any other thoughts on the notes from last nights meeting? Ideas, questions, concerns?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[eddie] !tell zegnat Here are some notes from a meeting about IWC Online, I'd love your thoughts, ideas, questions and concerns when you get a chance! https://indieweb.org/2019/Online/Planning#Meeting_Notes
#
[chrisaldrich] [eddie] It came out just about how I would have wanted personally. Mostly providing side spaces for people to interact, chat, and capture conversations in real time may be the hardest piece.
#
[chrisaldrich] Then building some of the additional infrastructure for people to read in advance may take some additional time, though I suspect things like how to propose sessions and do session picking for this may be useful and reusable for in-person camps as well.
#
[eddie] Yeah, that'll definitely take a little extra time to get that stuff all written up and available, but as you said, it'll be re-usable for in-person AND if it feels successful, once we have things set up in a way that we feel works, because Online doesn't take the typical resources, it could be something we could do every 6 months or something
#
[eddie] especially in the dead zones when there isn't an in-person IWC
#
[eddie] A lot of the initial setup, documentation, etc, could then be reused and future ones wouldn't take as much work
#
[chrisaldrich] [eddie] Dead zones? Who do you think you're kidding here? "Everyday is an IndieWebCamp day!" 😜
#
[eddie] definitely adding the side spaces will likely be the hardest piece, especially being able to capture those conversations, as you said
#
[eddie] 😆
#
[chrisaldrich] How do you do a good hallway track for an online camp/conference?
#
[chrisaldrich] being the key thing to capture....
#
[eddie] That makes sense
#
[chrisaldrich] another t-shirt idea for [jgmac1106]: *IndieWeb chat*: "Where every day is an IndieWeb Camp."
#
[eddie] I think one tricky thing is you can have a "hallway"/"water cooler" room but only so many people can chat in that room
#
[eddie] at an actual conference, literally two people can just walk off and have a conversation
#
[eddie] and it doesn't interfere with the other three people standing 10 feet away
#
[eddie] So I think that's the biggest thing we're have to iterate every IWC Online
#
sknebel depends on the platform how tricky adding a room is
#
[eddie] until we get it right
#
sknebel I think in Mumble I could allow people to create their own channels
#
[eddie] ohhh
#
[eddie] that's pretty cool
#
[chrisaldrich] but if those chats are so off to the side and "hidden" it's hard for someone 10 feet away to overhear the word "IndieWeb directory" and think, "I need to be in _that_ conversation!"
#
sknebel thats true
#
[eddie] So really what we need is somethign like google hangouts that allows you to click on someone's name and have all the other voices reduce in volume
#
[eddie] 😆
#
[eddie] So you can choose who you can primarily hear and other people are background audio that if you pick up on something interesting you can refocus your attention
#
[eddie] 😆
#
sknebel I feel like that doesn'T work soo well for audio chat :D
#
sknebel (this is also something where I'd support using money for something hosted if we find none of the free conference solutions work)
#
[eddie] I fear that the paid conference solutions might not have what we need either?
#
[eddie] I'm not sure
#
[chrisaldrich] I think you're probably right [eddie]
#
sknebel likely. but e.g. better video would be another thing
#
sknebel from various events it seems to me all the free P2P stuff just doesn'T quite work reliably enough for large groups
#
[eddie] That makes sense, by better video do you mean quality? quantity (# of people in room)? or control (for low-bandwidth settings)?
#
sknebel possibly all of that :D
#
[eddie] True! haha
#
sknebel it's probably not useful here, but the thing mozilla had appeared to mostly just work
#
sknebel which was a nice change
#
[eddie] was that bluejeans?
#
[eddie] or somethign like that?
#
sknebel vidyo?
#
[eddie] ohh gotcha. I feel like every IWC has used a different remote solution lately 🙂
#
[eddie] So all of that for video and something that maybe provides a Slack type interface? Where you can have pre-set rooms, where people could create new public rooms for various topics but maybe even provide optional private rooms if three people wanted to chat about something in private
#
[eddie] I don't know if any of them have things like that but I feel like that might be the closest thing. Something that allows you to say "here are all the rooms available"
#
[eddie] and if someone creates a new room you see it appear in the list
#
sknebel if we can have a stack of rooms, one could also get away with just having a bunch of rooms in reserve
#
sknebel realistically, after the first attempt we'll know more :D
#
[eddie] what do you mean by in reserve? Like for side conversations or specific topics?
#
[eddie] haha true
#
sknebel just have like 5-10 rooms, first few for big sessions and others "grab one if it is empty"
#
[eddie] ohhh true
#
[eddie] that makes sense
#
sknebel (discord doesn't do video, right? for audio + text it might ahve what we want...)
#
[eddie] hmmm that's true
#
[eddie] yeah it says "voice and text"
#
[eddie] I guess here's the question, do we use YouTube Live for broadcasting video for welcome and intros
#
[eddie] but just do voice for the collaboration sessions?
#
sknebel maybe
#
[eddie] Is trying to make video for EVERYTHING extra complicated?
#
[eddie] I know I always like to do video
#
[eddie] but 🤷‍♂️
#
sknebel I like video too, especially if it's not a static small group
#
[eddie] "In addition to being a pretty sweet voice & text chat app, Discord can offer you and up to 9 of your closest compadres an equally awesome video and screen sharing experience. "
#
sknebel ohh
#
[eddie] hmmm I'll have to read more about this real quick
#
sknebel at least a while back one could also use at least the web interface without really "signing up", just picking a username and being able to start
#
[eddie] without testing that appears to still be the case
#
[eddie] Ohhh so it seems like the video calls have to come from a private or group direct message
#
[eddie] not from a Discord room
#
sknebel as long as a session has someone responsible to start that might be viable
#
[eddie] That's true. It would limit sessions to 9 people max but .... it's interesting
#
[eddie] oh wait
#
[eddie] Note: This feature is currently only available on the Windows desktop client! It is not available on macOS, the browser, or mobile client!
#
[eddie] 😞
#
sknebel ahh...
#
[eddie] At the bottom of the article
#
[eddie] hmmm or the feature it's talking about might be screen sharing or sound sharing during video
#
[eddie] because I see another article that says mobile users ios and android can do video calls
#
[eddie] and I see this "Note for browser app users: You may need to enable camera access in your browser in order to use the device successfully. "
#
[eddie] So it seems like straight video is fine for mobile, browser and desktop app users
#
[eddie] screensharing and voice-over during screensharing is questionable
[Rose] joined the channel
#
[Rose] RocketChat or Wire might be an option
#
[Rose] We use RocketChat at work, you can create lots of rooms and add people to them, it's open source, do voice or video chat, and I think you can do screen sharing too
#
[eddie] ohhhh interesting!
#
[Rose] We were going to go with Wire, but the costs for self hosting 40,000 users were prohibitive.
#
[eddie] Interesting. RocketChat is essentially a self-hostable Slack???
#
[eddie] It supports Web, Desktop and Mobile
#
wiegand.io created /User:Wiegand.io (+283) "Created page with "= Daniel Wiegand, @wiegimania = <span class="p-summary">'''<dfn class="h-card">[https://wiegand.io/ Daniel Wiegand]</dfn>''' is a Webworker from Karlsruhe, Germany.</span> *..."" (view diff)
#
[Rose] Yes
#
[Rose] Push notifications on Android can be a bit wonky, but for free...
#
[eddie] The only downfall is having everything in one would likely lead ALL conversations around to happen there rather than in IRC, so we wouldn't have our usual historical logs unless we built some type of bridge
#
[eddie] because it would be weird to have people log on this for audio and video and tell them not to use text
#
[eddie] we COULD
#
[Rose] It has an API
#
[Rose] And stores everything in MongoDB, so we could export the logs.
#
[eddie] Ohhhh interesting
#
[eddie] That could be cool
#
[eddie] If it worked well for us, we could even use the same platform for virtual HWCs in the future potentially
#
[eddie] ah integration between RocketChat and YouTube Live!
#
[eddie] I'm thinking I'm gonna need to set up an instance of this for us to test out!
#
[jgmac1106] Chat is the water cooler room 8 thought about last night. Part of the reason I like zoom is not privileging the speaker
#
[eddie] I don't think Rocket.Chat has the idea of a speaker
#
[eddie] It looks like RocketChat uses Jitsi Meet
#
[eddie] for their video conferencing
#
[eddie] Which is a free open source video conferencing solution
#
[eddie] So we could potentially even just install Jitsi Meet
#
[eddie] ahh Matrix also uses jitsi
[tantek] joined the channel
#
[tantek] ah drat I think I messed up the dates off by one for Summit
#
[tantek] and no one caught it!
#
tantek.com edited /Planning (+60) "/* Summit */ fix off by one dates" (view diff)
#
[eddie] Alright, so jitsi meet would allow us to have "unlimited rooms" but doesn't provide an interface with a list of rooms. We could however, create a bunch of pre-named rooms on the server and link to them from the wiki
#
[eddie] So would go to the wiki page to see the schedule and the schedule would have a list of all the rooms, and we could create a couple extra "collab" rooms. Someone could also just change the url extension like Google Hangouts to enter a new room
#
[eddie] I'm thinking that might be better than having a full text/audio/video solution. What do you think [jgmac1106] [chrisaldrich] GWG?
#
[eddie] It also supports streaming to YouTube Live so we would still have that to archive the main rooms
#
[eddie] and for people who just want to view
#
[eddie] Also, jitsi has integration with Etherpad so there is a shared text document for each room
#
[eddie] Audio only option for those that dont want to do video but want to chat with the same people
#
[chrisaldrich] That could be cool. We should do a test run just to see it in action though.
#
sknebel huh, I thought we tried jitsi at some point, but if we did it didn't get captured in the notes
#
[eddie] Oh yeah test run is a must
#
[eddie] oh yeah sknebel? hmmm
#
[eddie] for a HWC?
#
[eddie] IWC Remote?
#
sknebel yeah
#
[eddie] do you remember what the experience was like?
#
sknebel but I only find a note from aaronpk that it could be worth trying, not a result, so maybe I'm misremembering
#
sknebel I associate it with "another of those WebRTC things", but I might very well be wrong
#
sknebel what is vHWC?
#
Loqi Virtual HWC is an online Homebrew Website Club for IndieWebbers who either can’t make a regular meeting or don’t yet have critical mass to host one in their area https://indieweb.org/vHWC
#
[chrisaldrich] I remember Zegnat and gang trying out several options, but I thought they at least documented sketches of them in the wiki at some point.
#
[eddie] It does seem to say it's WebRTC
#
sknebel [chrisaldrich]: yes, on thatp age :D
#
tantek.com edited /2019 (+266) "off by one dates, events week before" (view diff)
#
[eddie] Looks like I need to get jitsi meet set up on a server so we can test it out and we'll have to get Zegnat on the call to provide data usage feedback
#
sknebel I thought they have a hosted test instance too
#
[eddie] That's true, they do
#
[eddie] I didn't know if the quality would be different on our own instance rather than their test instance
#
[eddie] but I guess that would be the first place to test things out
#
GWG Want to try and use it for a Virtual HWC as a test?
#
[eddie] I'm thinking that makes sense
#
[eddie] When is the next HWC?
#
Loqi Join us for an evening of IndieWeb personal site demos and discussions! Any questions? Ask in the chatroom! More… https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
#
sknebel assuming tomorrows has attendees *cough* I can at least have everyone there join a jitsi room too
#
sknebel fwiw, it seems like it's not entirely p2p, but uses webrtc to transport data to a server, so that could be a good sign
#
[eddie] ohhhh interesting. :crossed_fingers:
[schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] yeah iirc jitsi has a coordination server
#
[eddie] sknebel the virtual HWC European Time has two hours. Is the first hour the quiet writing hour or just a two hour long HWC?
#
[eddie] I think I could join you guys for the first hour, but the second hour I might end up in a meeting
#
tantek.com edited /events/2019-01-23-homebrew-website-club (+78) "/* What */ Websub and IndieAuth anniversaries" (view diff)
#
sknebel no fixed format. sometimes it has been quiet, but often it just starts there
#
tantek.com edited /Events (+0) "/* June */ date was off by one" (view diff)
#
sknebel depends on what people are doing/interested in
#
[eddie] Gotcha, awesome. I'll plan on joining you all for the first hour
#
[tantek] !tell aaronpk,schmarty,jgmac1106,gRegorLove,cleverdevil,gwg,rose I had the planning dates for Summit mistakenly off by one - could you double check your dates preferences and update if necessary? Thanks! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[Rose] I'm still good, thanks!
[pfefferle] joined the channel
#
tantek.com edited /2019 (+112) "cite donutjs last Tuesday" (view diff)
#
[tantek] thanks Rose!
#
[tantek] !tell sl007 any update on IWW Vlissingen? Still not seeing a guest book, and its page seems to be unchanged for a couple of weeks.
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
[asuh] joined the channel
#
@jgmac1106 Creating an #IndieWeb friendly experience on @weebly: https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/01/22/creating-an-indieweb-friendly-experience-on-weebly (twitter.com/_/status/1087810769402642432)
#
tantek.com edited /2019/New_Haven (+106) "/* Organizers */ note jgmac1106 organizing!" (view diff)
#
[tantek] !tell jgmac1106 is IWC NHV a "save the dates" for now? How confirmed is venue etc.? And how are you doing with getting co-organizers?
#
Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
#
[jgmac1106] okay will do, back on campus now and we are meeting tonight to plan so will be good gardening
#
Loqi [jgmac1106]: [tantek] left you a message 19 minutes ago: I had the planning dates for Summit mistakenly off by one - could you double check your dates preferences and update if necessary? Thanks! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
#
tantek.com edited /2019/New_Haven (+9) "still a stub, lots of empty subsections to be filled out" (view diff)
#
[tantek] [jgmac1106] for now I'll tell people "Save the dates" for IWC NHV, until there's a registration link and the page is more filled out
#
[tantek] Per IWC NYC lessons learned, I strongly recommend getting at least one co-organizer who is good at making sure details are handled that you can work with
#
tantek.com created /2019/Dusseldorf (+30) "r" (view diff)
#
[jgmac1106] would happily take on some IWC NHV co-organizers, though I do have the computer science club and three other faculty members helping to plan but they aren't on wiki (yet)
[voss] joined the channel
#
[voss] are thedates for IWC Dusseldorf set for certain? I'm about to buy my tickets, and wanted to make sure I'm not throwing money out the window (:
#
[tantek] [jgmac1106] also the femhack.tech website only lists their April 16 event, do you have a link for the one day event before IWC that is mentioned on /2019/NHV?
#
[tantek] voss, we have the space confirmed for the IWC DUS dates
#
[voss] tanket - great!
#
tantek.com edited /2019/New_Haven (+0) "fix end date, presuming Saturday/Sunday usual, and per "two days" in description at top, fix presumed typo" (view diff)
#
[voss] Eh, tantek, obviously.
#
[jgmac1106] no, I need to update that site, furst day of semester just getting into the swing, launch and run first classes...back to only playing on Thurs-Fru
#
[jgmac1106] and from the ass crack of dawn until I have to feed whiny children in the morning
#
[tantek] [jgmac1106] thanks and good to know. I only made light changes to fix apparent inconsistencies
#
[jgmac1106] no worries, I totally forgot to make the wiki page, concentrated on the new website
#
[tantek] Still Saturday Sunday though for IWC NHV right?
#
[jgmac1106] yes
#
[tantek] (March 30-31)
#
[jgmac1106] yes
#
[jgmac1106] confirmed with location
#
[tantek] great thank you!!!
#
[tantek] doing a save the dates post right now
#
[tantek] voss are you coming to Beyond Tellerand also? I highly recommend it! (and they're helping us with space for IWC 🙂 )
#
eddiehinkle.com created /2019/Online (+535) "Add Save the Dates" (view diff)
#
[tantek] ooh
#
[tantek] oh yeah eddie that's soon!
#
[voss] tantek, unfortunately I can't make it to Beyond Tellerand this time around :/ - hoping to make it next year!
#
[jgmac1106] [eddie] what do you need to get you to NHV this year? I can donate hotel points or something, help with childcare if baby comes
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning (+61) "/* Save Dates */ Add Online Save the Date" (view diff)
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning () "(-1100) /* Online */ remove this because it has a date" (view diff)
#
[eddie] tantek: Yep! Time to get our wheels pumping!
#
[eddie] [jgmac1106] Hmmm not sure. Let me take a look at things
#
[tantek] great! eddie, can you move the planning notes that you removed from /Planning to /2019/Online/Planning to archive them there?
#
[eddie] The planning notes were just date choices
#
[eddie] everything else is as /2019/Online/Planning already
#
[tantek] great
#
@t Upcoming IndieWebCamps! Sign-up: 2/23-24 Austin https://2019.indieweb.org/austin Save weekends: 3/09 Online http://indieweb.org/2019/Online 3/30 New Haven http://indieweb.org/2019/NHV 5/04 Berlin http://indieweb.org/2019/Berlin 5/11 Düsseldorf http://indieweb.org/2019/Dusseldorf 6/29 ... http://tantek.com/t4yd1 (twitter.com/_/status/1087816948681977856)
#
[voss] Aaaand I have my ticket and hotel for Dusseldorf IWC.
#
[voss] Really looking forward to it. Also happy to help with organisation from remote.
#
[jgmac1106] Just need one grant to hit for Duesseldorf or Berlin next year
#
tantek.com edited /Template:IndieWebCamp (+27) "+2019 Online" (view diff)
#
[voss] Does anyone have contact to someone at Beyond Tellerand? Looks like their SSL certificate expired: https://beyondtellerrand.com/events/duesseldorf-2019
#
[voss] Yesterday
#
[tantek] oops
#
[tantek] on it
#
[jgmac1106] We will have NYC in Sept pretty sure [eddie] will get you one. Or just plan IWC-DC, I can get you venue no problem get [jgarber] and [jonathanprozzi] to help you
#
[voss] [jgmac1106] in that case I'll have to come to either Berlin or Dusseldorf again next year so we can meet IRL (:
#
eddiehinkle.com edited /Events (+357) "/* March */ Add IWC Online" (view diff)
#
[Rose] Berlin and Düsseldorf are confirmed?
#
[tantek] Venues confirmed for dates for both of them
#
[tantek] next I'm working on Summit venue...
#
[Rose] Great. I'll book flights and my hotel for Berlin!
#
[Rose] (Hotel is reserved for Düsseldorf already)
#
[tantek] Great!
#
[Rose] I look forward to meeting you. And hopefully doing some cool stuff.
#
[tantek] Same!
#
[eddie] [jgmac1106] How far is the drive from Milford? Downtown New Haven doesn't seem to have my usual hotels lol
#
@HWCLondon Homebrew Website Club London, tomorrow, Wed 23rd! https://hwclondon.co.uk/meetups/20190123 (twitter.com/_/status/1087830462435913728)
#
tantek.com created /projects... (+22) "create due to mention in chat" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /single-standard_site (+187) "shorten dfn, add examples, past lists instead" (view diff)
[schmarty] joined the channel
#
[schmarty] summit dates are still good for me
#
Loqi [schmarty]: [tantek] left you a message 2 hours, 30 minutes ago: I had the planning dates for Summit mistakenly off by one - could you double check your dates preferences and update if necessary? Thanks! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
#
[tantek] :thumbsup:
#
gRegorLove_ [tantek], still good here
#
Loqi gRegorLove_: [tantek] left you a message 2 hours, 47 minutes ago: I had the planning dates for Summit mistakenly off by one - could you double check your dates preferences and update if necessary? Thanks! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
#
gRegorLove_ Ooh, save the dates for online. Excellent.
bradenslen joined the channel
#
@EchoChamberUncu Liked State of the Indieweb in WordPress by David Shanske (http://david.shanske.com)Every year, at the Indieweb… | john https://educationechochamberuncut.wordpress.com/2019/01/22/liked-state-of-the-indieweb-in-wordpress-by-david-shanske-david-shanske-comevery-year-at-the-indieweb-john/ (twitter.com/_/status/1087851335905624064)
#
GWG I need to look for a room for New Haven
#
Loqi GWG: [tantek] left you a message 3 hours, 9 minutes ago: I had the planning dates for Summit mistakenly off by one - could you double check your dates preferences and update if necessary? Thanks! https://indieweb.org/Planning#Summit
#
tantek.com edited /Planning (+0) "another off by one" (view diff)
#
tantek.com edited /2019 (+200) "note Organizers Summit the day before" (view diff)
#
tantek.com created /2019/Organizers (+99) "stub with next action, previously" (view diff)
[voss] joined the channel