#meta 2019-04-13

2019-04-13 UTC
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tantek.com created /2019/Berlin/Project_Goals (+1339) "stub from 2019/Austin/Project_Goals, add myself, pick a couple of specific Falcon improvements to try in-person, good for in-person discussion / user feedback" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /2019/Berlin/expenses (+647) "stub from 2018/Berlin/expenses" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /events/2019-04-25-homebrew-website-club (+2897) "stub from 2019-04-18, update What" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:Homebrew_Website_Club (+54) "add 2019-04-25 for Brighton" (view diff)
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[tantek] <!here> who is going to IWC Berlin? It's in three weeks! Could you indie RSVP / grab a Tito ticket at https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin and please report back your experience? Did it work as expected? Did you show up on the page after you RSVPd (either indie RSVP and/or Tito ticket)? Thanks!
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin
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@ChrisAldrich There's an eerie & surprisingly large overlap of what @mattlumpkin said in his talk & the #IndieWeb. If you change the disease from Type 1 Diabetes to social media, there's a number of similarities [more...] cc: @annexx_studio @InnovatPasadena https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/12/55748684/ (twitter.com/_/status/1116867821269422080)
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[tantek] 163 hours until <!here> You have 90 minutes left to fix anything before Loqi *actually* generates the final version of the newsletter at 14:30 PDT (unless the weird DST bug is fixed) cc: [tantek] [gRegorLove] [schmarty] https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-04-19.html
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2019-04-19 1:00pm PDT (#6542)
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[tantek] nailed it
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tantek.com edited /Events (+14) "/* May */ Berlin ticketing is up!" (view diff)
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@tiffany ↩️ The pitch of sites like http://micro.blog and IndieWeb (and bless them) is that you can still have the interaction of social sites. Ugh. Nope. Pitch me your blocking/safety/privacy solutions. (twitter.com/_/status/1116874932464574464)
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jacky that's wild timing
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jacky I'm working on moderation right now for koype
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tantek.com edited /wikifying (+772) "/* FAQ */ Where should I add something to the wiki, and summarize points of syntax question" (view diff)
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jacky I guess a general post about how extensions to Webmention can be used to handle moderation could help?
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[tantek] jacky, start with Vouch
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[tantek] what is Vouch
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Loqi The Vouch protocol is an anti-spam extension to Webmention. Webmention with Vouch depends on understanding Webmention https://indieweb.org/Vouch
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[tantek] she's absolutely right about the need to build in good blocking/safety/privacy solutions
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[tantek] we have some documentation and research at /block /mute and...
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[tantek] what is report abuse?
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Loqi Report abuse (AKA report inappropriate) is a feature in many (most?) silos for notifying the silo owners that a specific user, post, or comment is abusive https://indieweb.org/report_abuse
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GWG [tantek]: As you may remember, Vouch has some challenges on the implementation side
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jacky Yeah the vouch generation bit
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[tantek] GWG, we need those challenges better documented with specific examples so we can iterate on solving them
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GWG [tantek]: I thought I did after the last summit
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GWG https://indieweb.org/Vouch#Lack_of_development_on_generating_vouches
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GWG https://github.com/indieweb/vouch/issues
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jacky https://github.com/indieweb/vouch/issues/1
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Loqi [dshanske] #1 Need for Suggestions and Details for Generating Vouches
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jacky this is really the only roadblock imo from a MVp
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[tantek] GWG, oh hey you even moved them to GitHub issues for further threaded discussion! Thanks!
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GWG Though, we lacked further discussion at the time
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GWG Maybe this summit
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[tantek] can you update https://indieweb.org/Vouch#Issues with the links to the specific issues?
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[tantek] GWG are you going to Berlin or Düsseldorf? I'd really like to discuss even sooner if possible
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GWG [tantek]: I'm in Berlin
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GWG Not Dusseldorf
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GWG Couldn't handle both.
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GWG And while I've never been to Dusseldorf, I ended up picking Berlin as I liked it lasttime
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[tantek] makes sense. I expect Berlin will be awesome again
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[tantek] GWG, can you try out the ticketing and indie RSVP to https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin?
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin
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aaronpk ok just fixed Loqi's cron job for DST
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aaronpk the trick here is that mailchimp which sends out the email *is* DST aware
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aaronpk so i could have Loqi generate it at the same time UTC every week, and the email would essentially go out an hour late half the year
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GWG I've been meanign to
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[tantek] aaronpk++ thank you!
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Loqi aaronpk has 44 karma in this channel over the last year (234 in all channels)
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[tantek] any chance of half-hourly regen during the last say six hours before it goes out?
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[tantek] if that's "just" a cron option for example
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aaronpk it's a pretty heavy-handed process to generate the newsletter, let me review to see what i would be hammering during that time
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[eddie] !tell GWG we could also propose Vouch as a single session
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[eddie] What is a single session?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "single session" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "single session is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[eddie] Darn, what was that called! Haha
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jacky lol
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aaronpk ok it's not as bad as i thought, apparently it only takes about 10 seconds to generate the newsletter
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aaronpk and it's pulling mostly from our own sources, so i don't mind making a bunch of requests to them
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[eddie] single session is /ad-hoc_sessions
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /single_session (+28) "prompted by [eddie] and redirect added by [eddie]" (view diff)
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eddiehinkle.com edited /ad-hoc_sessions (+106) "/* Future Topics */ add Vouch" (view diff)
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aaronpk [tantek]: ok next week there should be many more newsletter drafrtas
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aaronpk drafts
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GWG [tantek]: I would love to have you in a Vouch session. I don't have any recollection of the original Vouch session
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Loqi GWG: [eddie] left you a message 11 minutes ago: we could also propose Vouch as a single session
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GWG And I'm still asking questions from Portland
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[tantek] GWG indeed I think Vouch is one piece of the larger safety puzzle
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[tantek] aaronpk crushing it today thank you!
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aaronpk speaking of berlin, who is buying food and things? plz coordinate with me so that i can reimburse you from our sponsorship!
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aaronparecki.com edited /2019/Berlin (+273) "/* Sponsors */" (view diff)
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GWG I still need a roommate
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/indiewebcamp/status/1116893335178792960
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@indiewebcamp Upcoming IndieWebCamps! 🦖 Berlin May 4-5, 2019 📡 Düsseldorf May 11-12, 2019 🏛 Utrecht May 18-19, 2019 ⛰ Summit (Portland) June 29-30, 2019 Register now! https://2019.indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1116893335178792960)
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[tantek] those emojis 😂
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aaronpk i tried
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[tantek] aaronpk++ for getting @indiewebcamp unlocked
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Loqi aaronpk has 45 karma in this channel over the last year (235 in all channels)
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[Rose] !tell tantek I registered for a ticket successfully, but it automatically asks me to assign it to someone which is odd.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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aaronpk That's the one weird thing about Tito that I don't like
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aaronpk imagine you're buying 4 tickets for a group of friends and then it makes sense
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aaronpk I feel like if you buy just one they should assign it to the purchaser and not ask that question
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[tantek] Alright, what's the magic setting for Tito to actually show ticket purchasers?
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Loqi [tantek]: [Rose] left you a message 36 minutes ago: I registered for a ticket successfully, but it automatically asks me to assign it to someone which is odd.
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[tantek] !tell Rose I don't see you listed on https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin - did Tito ask you if you want to be shown or not? Also, did Tito ask you to agree to the IndieWeb Code of Conduct and the Mozilla Community Participation Guidelines?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin
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[tantek] what is Tito
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Loqi ti.to is an event management site that was first used for IndieWebCamp 2015 and several subsequent IndieWebCamps https://indieweb.org/tito
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[Rose] I didn't get asked if I wanted to be shown, nor did it ask about agreeing to anything
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Loqi [Rose]: [tantek] left you a message 2 minutes ago: I don't see you listed on https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin - did Tito ask you if you want to be shown or not? Also, did Tito ask you to agree to the IndieWeb Code of Conduct and the Mozilla Community Participation Guidelines?
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[tantek] well that's not good
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[Rose] Ok, you have to assign the ticket, that button ought to be called "provide additional details"
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[tantek] so we have at least two bugs with the tito setup then
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[Rose] No, if you assign the ticket it works
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[tantek] what "works"?
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[Rose] That button is just badly named.
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[Rose] You'
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[tantek] ???
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[Rose] *You're asked if you want to show publicly, which days you're coming on
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[tantek] and did you say yes to that?
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[Rose] Yes, just now
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[Rose] This is what popped up
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[Rose] No agreeing to CoC though
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[tantek] or Mozilla Community Guidelines
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[tantek] and "first name" "last name" fields should just be "Attendee full name" (per all that discussion that went around the interwebs a few months ago)
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[tantek] Basic Info needs two *required checked checkboxes* (that start unchecked), one for IW CoC, and one for MCG
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+691) "expand Tito section" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2019/Berlin (-17) "de-dup IWCs template" (view diff)
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tomasparks.name edited /User:Tomasparks.name (+42) (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+168) "Update IndieWebCamp Template, drop min requirement to 4 in person, 5 including remote, per IWC New Haven success with those numbers" (view diff)
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[tantek] <!here> if you have successfully setup a Tito for an IWC with *requiring* explicit acceptance (e.g. checkboxes) of IWC CoC and Mozilla CPG, *and* setup a working Tito "participants" embed on the yyyy.indieweb.org/cityname page, *please* reach out to Zegnat to help fix those for the IWC Berlin 2019 Tito, and report your experience/understanding to Rose who is testing it and found the bug. Thanks!
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tomasparks.name edited /User:Tomasparks.name (-177) (view diff)
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[tantek] !tell Zegnat can you fix https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin to put an explicit unique id="..." attribute on every h3 element so we can link to them in particular (e.g. registered, indie rsvps etc.) thank you!
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin
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[tantek] IWC Berlin participants, the project goals page is up! https://indieweb.org/2019/Berlin/Project_Goals please add yourselves! [Rose] [calumryan] GWG
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[tantek] !tell GWG are you able to make it to the Berlin Organizers Meetup? If so, please add yourself: https://indieweb.org/2019/Berlin/Organizers#RSVP
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] calumryan++ for posting an indie RSVP to https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin which is now visible!
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Loqi calumryan has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)
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Loqi IndieWebCamp Berlin
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[tantek] Rose, see if you can get one up there too!
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[Rose] On my list for later today!
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swentel I'm going to decide on may 2 - still on a festival the day before, depends how energized I feel to drive for 8 hours .. :)
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[tantek] swentel would be great to have you!
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[tantek] try RSVPing with a "maybe"!
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swentel oh, yeah, could do that
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[tantek] and it'll be a good test of the page too, to make sure it shows maybes correctly!
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swentel send
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swentel maybe it ignores maybes - or there's caching involved?
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+2192) "/* Working On */ Template all pages - finally capture this nagging item in the back of my head with a short term use-case" (view diff)
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calumryan swentel: think it may only filter yes responses? https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/blob/master/public/webmention.php
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swentel ah yes
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tantek.com edited /Falcon (+98) "/* Template all pages */ a few colors" (view diff)
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tomasparks.name edited /voice-comments (+86) (view diff)
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[eddie] !tell tantek I’m pretty sure aaronpk has to setup the Tito import manually or something similar from what I understand about past camps trying to display Tito RSVPs
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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david.shanske.com edited /2019/Berlin/Organizers (+10) "/* RSVP */" (view diff)
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aaronpk I did set up the cron job for Berlin, but it also needs that question in the registration so that it knows whether it's ok to show the rsvp
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[Rose] There is one. Or there was one when I registered.
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[eddie] Yep, it’s there and both Rose and GWG selected “yes”
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[eddie] And if looks like Berlin.php does include templates/show-tito-tickets.php
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[eddie] Strange
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Zegnat .
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Loqi Zegnat: [tantek] left you a message 7 hours, 4 minutes ago: can you fix https://2019.indieweb.org/berlin to put an explicit unique id="..." attribute on every h3 element so we can link to them in particular (e.g. registered, indie rsvps etc.) thank you!
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Zegnat Sadly I didn’t know that tantek was having some offline time when I setup the page and requested another organiser to review. So some stuff like missing CoC checkboxes seems to have slipped through.
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Zegnat To recap a little from #indieweb-chat: the Berlin event was based on (I think) the Summit event. So all questions were copied over from there. This included the public-guest-list question. There did not seem to be any setup within the 2019.indieweb.org repo for setting up the inclusion of the tito signups at all.
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Zegnat Currently looking at adding CoC checkboxes, but unsure how to make single required checkboxes in Tito. So going to be a bit of a test.
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Zegnat Also caught up on the rest of the discussion. I do not believe we control any of the attendees info fields, so we can’t change first/last name fields into a single field.
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Zegnat But I’ll check. I think they may not both be manadatory? I signed up with my URL as my name for the last Berlin one. (And then jkphl manually changed it to my actual name for handing over the list to Moz, sadly :P)
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Zegnat Alright, I think adding the checkboxes as separate required questions has made them required for assigning a ticket! Success!
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Zegnat I’d love some feedback on the text there. Had to fill it with something to link to the actual CoC and Participation Guidelines...
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GWG Who is coming to Berlin so far?
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Loqi GWG: [tantek] left you a message 7 hours, 59 minutes ago: are you able to make it to the Berlin Organizers Meetup? If so, please add yourself: https://indieweb.org/2019/Berlin/Organizers#RSVP
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Zegnat Still waiting for the OK from work. The closer it gets to the date, the less likely I will be going
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GWG I still need a roommate. I was hoping to find some potential candidates
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[Rose] I am coming. But I already have a room.
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I notice you're a Drupalista. Would it help to know that @swentel has already done a huge amount of the work for you? See: https://www.drupal.org/project/indieweb @Dries has been writing a lot about it over the past year as well. [more...] https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/13/55748705/ (twitter.com/_/status/1117103077687844864)
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GWG [Rose]: I am just trying to save money. So still hope to find someone
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boffosocko.com edited /Posts_about_the_IndieWeb (+315) "/* Articles */ Zeldman article in A List Apart: Nothing Fails Like Success" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /why (+315) "articles section with Zeldman piece; concatenated the two see also sections" (view diff)
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@ChrisAldrich Those in #IndieWeb will have a sense of déjà vu as they watch this video and realize there's a lot of overlap with how (and why) @mattlumpkin is working to help those with diabetes. Perhaps there are some lessons to be learned? https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/13/55748726/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHHW5Rk37wA (twitter.com/_/status/1117134886232477696)
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@ChrisAldrich Jeffrey @Zeldman does an excellent job of indicating why and what is wrong with the internet and social media and points to #IndieWeb as a way forward. #LetsFixThis https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/13/lets-fix-this/ https://twitter.com/zeldman/status/1116322157842321409 (twitter.com/_/status/1117153308827770880)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I’ve written about & documented how I’ve gotten a lot of IndieWeb related technologies running on my own website. In many cases, these solutions are simple plugin downloads & activations [more...] #LetsFixThis https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/13/lets-fix-this/#I%E2%80%99ve%20written%20about (twitter.com/_/status/1117154159055130624)
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@ChrisAldrich ↩️ I have no doubt that even if you’re not a developer or programmer that you can help. If you’re not sure, ask me or others how. https://chat.indieweb.org/indieweb/ #LetsFixThis https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/13/lets-fix-this/#I%20have%20no%20doubt (twitter.com/_/status/1117155363717935104)
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[tantek] LetsFixThis << 2019-04-13 {{chrisaldrich}} [https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/13/lets-fix-this/ LetsFixThis]
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Loqi [tantek]: [eddie] left you a message 7 hours, 44 minutes ago: I’m pretty sure aaronpk has to setup the Tito import manually or something similar from what I understand about past camps trying to display Tito RSVPs
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Loqi ok, I added "2019-04-13 {{chrisaldrich}} [https://boffosocko.com/2019/04/13/lets-fix-this/ LetsFixThis]" to the "See Also" section of /LetsFixThis https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=59223&oldid=59178
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[tantek] Zegnat++ thanks! Where can we review the result? Does it require signing up for another ticket? Or can you screenshot?
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Loqi Zegnat has 37 karma in this channel over the last year (154 in all channels)
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[tantek] Also, re: "Had to fill it with something to link to the actual CoC and Participation Guidelines..." hmm - thought I wrote that up in the request? See https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp_Organizing#Before "Ticketing"
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[tantek] Hmm - it's a bit lost inline, I can break it out as a block to make it more obvious
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+129) "/* Before */ blockquote the ticketing checkboxes to make them more obvious, and span id for Ticketing" (view diff)
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[tantek] !tell Zegnat fill it with something? Like the example here? Or did you have to make something else up? https://indieweb.org/IndieWebCamp_Organizing#Ticketing
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] !tell Zegnat or if a single checkbox is easier/possible then maybe that's ok too.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek.com created /Tito (+19) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWebCamp_Organizing (+225) "/* Before */ add single checkbox option to CoC & MozCPG" (view diff)
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chrisaldrich Is there a pre-existing template on the wiki for setting up a camp, or have we just been cutting and pasting from the most recent one(s)?
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gRegorLove No template. Mostly reference the how to organize page and copying
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gRegorLove Is the Moz CPG on /IndieWebCamp_Organizing specific to summit?
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gRegorLove when the venue is Moz
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aaronpk copy and paste, slowly evolving, so not really possible to do a template
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gRegorLove Yeah, a MW template would get stale / be a pain to maintain
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chrisaldrich I'm thinking about the general template on the /etherpad page that might be something we could replicate and iterate on over time... perhaps better/more complete than cut & paste?
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gRegorLove But maybe a section like this somewhere could be an in-between: https://indieweb.org/Etherpad#Etherpad_Template
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chrisaldrich I don't mean a MW template... that would definitely be more difficult to maintain....
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gRegorLove jinx :)
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chrisaldrich :)
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aaronpk maintaining a template is going to be more work and more than likely get stale
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aaronpk it would require that organizers remember to update the template if they make any changes to an event page, which adds a whole extra level of post-event work that someone has to do
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chrisaldrich but it makes it a lot easier for future ones.. and generally there are only a handful of us doing that presently....
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aaronpk how is that different from copying the most recent event page and changing what you need?
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chrisaldrich some of those can have a lot commented in/out, excised, or customized for a particular location....
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aaronpk so would the template tho
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chrisaldrich mostly I'm thinking about the hill of work for doing something towards the end of the year and I'm trying to be as lazy as possible. ;)
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chrisaldrich I suppose there isn't a huge amount of change to the present "templates" presently in any case, so perhaps it's not as difficult as I'm making out in my head...
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gregorlove.com edited /Etherpad (+36) "/* Etherpad Template */ remove some extra brackets except where external URLs are expected" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /silo-quits (+179) "/* Silo quitters 2019 */ Fluffy quit of Patreon" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /2018/Berlin/Demos (+9340) "dump chat logs, formatted" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Category:2018 (+59) "categorize" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Category:2019 (+59) "categorize" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Category:IndieWebCamp_Austin_2019 (+71) "categorize" (view diff)
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[Rose] Which page should I reply to, in order to RSVP to an indieweb event?
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gRegorLove You can RSVP to the 2019.indieweb.org/[city] page
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gRegorLove Then it should show up there under the indie RSVP section
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[Rose] Done, which was fun 😄
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gregorlove.com created /Category:IndieWebCamp_Berlin_2019 (+71) "categorize" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Yeah, it's always pretty cool seeing stuff show up like that!
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@RosemaryOrchard IndieWebCamp Berlin 2019 – Berlin, Germany: https://wp.me/p5qelV-B3 (twitter.com/_/status/1117189905761886208)
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gregorlove.com created /Category:IndieWebCamp_Düsseldorf_2019 (+80) "categorize" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Category:IndieWeb_Summit_2019 (+61) "categorize" (view diff)
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[Rose] Or maybe it did. Weird
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[Rose] Wrong channel, tired Rose should not be playing with technology
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gregorlove.com created /Category:IndieWebCamp_Online_2019 (+71) "categorize" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /Category:IndieWebCamp_Utrecht_2019 (+73) "categorize" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @neilhimself Lovely to see you being part of the indieweb still. (twitter.com/_/status/1117199011864285184)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @PatrickWStanley @muneeb Join a Homebrew Website Club or start your own https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club (twitter.com/_/status/1117208452458270720)
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@sl007 ↩️ Ja, Mastodon und Pixelfed benutzen ja ActivityPub – Deshalb hatte ich https://indieweb.org/2019/Vlissingen als Anschub aus eigener Tasche privat finanziert, aber wie auch immer. Schade, daß es aus der deutschen Politik wieder keine Rückmeldung gibt. Es geht um die, die nicht in die USA können (twitter.com/_/status/1117212833396264960)