aaronpkI thought the goal of the lunch sessions was to give people an easy option for meeting new people without feeling like they have to do the emotional work of inviting themselves to a new group. I don't think that then also saying they need to propose a topic and location for food is a good suggestion
[tantek]aaronpk, it aligns difficulty with difficulty which I don't think is necessarily bad. If someone wants to be super picky about all the things, then put the work of being super picky on them rather than on everyone else.
[tantek]someone might just be in a difficult mood too, in which case, sometimes perhaps the solitary option is the right one (I've been there myself), and that's ok too. we can all use breaks from time to time
aaronpkIn general I'm in favor of that, but since this is a new thing designed to be more welcoming to newcomers it seems to kind of defeat the purpose
[tantek]it's like if someone shows up and expects you to do everything to make them comfortable and doesn't want to do any of the work. not really interested in catering to that kind of attitude.
[tantek]that being said, when it comes to comfort around areas of safety, and accessibility, I think it's good to taken on at least some responsibility as an organizer. but for matters of taste? (e.g. what topic to discuss) not really
[tantek]What I observed in Berlin was groups of people who didn't necessarily know each other engaging in conversation and getting to know each other. Giving folks a "topic" reduced the awkwardness not only of forming groups (which are otherwise implicitly based on pre-existing social ties), but also reduced the awkwardness of what do we talk about
[tantek]I think people do enjoy meeting new people at IndieWebCamps, the key is to provide just the right assistance/catalysts to lower the barriers to that, as compared to retreating to just people you already know (which leaves out solo newcomers).
[tantek]I'm open to other methods. In general I think we found the topic method worked to get people to mix in new ways rather than reinforce existing clusters
sknebelTo be clear: I think proposed places for food, picking someone to lead people there and form groups going there before leaving is a good idea and better than the random wandering that e.g. happened in Berlin before (after it turned out none of the places that might have seated all where open)
sebselthey resolve to different IP's, and Aaron said that they are different servers, but it has happened before that both IndieWeb.org and some p3k services where down
[Rose]I like the idea, but I also feel like docker containers can cause problems (e.g. some web hosts won't let you install docker containers, or if you install one that is your server)
ZegnatThere is also the thing that, while Microsub might be a “building block” for the full networking experience. An actual microsub server that is capable of subscribing to different types of feeds (RSS, Atom, h-feed, …) is an entire service in itself.
ZegnatSo while a webmentions building block can have a 5 minute install and can be a single PHP file in some cases, a microsub building block will likely be something the size of e.g. FeedWrangler
sebselI wanted to say that too: "All buildingblocks should have WordPress-like 5 minute installs" is hard, because you can't install a building block. You can install apps that use the building blocks, which would be nice too, but there shouldn't be one single app that is the building block.
[frank]I agree some buildingblocks are more complex. What I mean is the complexity should be hidden from an average end user. And yes, I don’t mean to imply we all should install microsub, but we should encourage a simple installation and onboarding of Yarns and Aperture.
[Rose]And ideally we should also work on having a few more alternatives to Yarns and Aperture, especially as the former requires WordPress and the latter is not really simple
aaronpkphp crashed for some reason so I restarted it. thankfully most of the indieweb.org sites are on a different server now but the main wiki is still on that one
[Rose]!tell Zegnat let me know how many breakout rooms you think we'll have in Åmål, currently I think we have the kit for 2.5, but I can probably get an extra microphone.
[tantek][chrisaldrich] note that /silo-quits was already inclusive of soft quits, you may want to dig through there for other examples to move (now that we have a separate page for it)
Loqisilo quits are public statements by individuals announcing they have publicly quit posting on or using (at all) various silos, either with intended permanence, or temporarily (sometimes referred to as taking a "social media break") https://indieweb.org/silo-quit
[tantek]another example: app deletion. i.e. deleting the native app of a silo from your mobile etc., it's a strong step forward, helps your privacy etc.
LoqiZegnat: [Rose] left you a message 3 hours, 1 minute ago: let me know how many breakout rooms you think we'll have in Åmål, currently I think we have the kit for 2.5, but I can probably get an extra microphone.
ZegnatI just sent of the email for final venue confirmation, [Rose]. And also asked about breakout rooms. As I understood, “all” rooms are ours to take if no other events are booked.
[Rose]Great work Zegnat, I mentioned to my boss that I'm keynote speaker. I'll arrange remote work and time off tomorrow/Friday and get my flights booked.
ZegnatDid nobody post session grid photos to either Berlin or Utrecht wiki pages btw? I was looking for one to show off barcamp style planning and didn’t see them
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "photo publishing" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "photo publishing is ____", a sentence describing the term)
LoqiIt looks like we don't have a page for "publishing" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "publishing is ____", a sentence describing the term)
ZegnatI wouldn’t really, unless more people show an actual interest. The last few vHWCs have felt like mostly the samee people showing up to hang out, sometimes leaving the chat silent for half an hour while everyone does their own thing. Personally I have no need to do more of those evenings. But maybe others have a different impression.
[tonz][tantek] context: making sure the message is received. E.g. many I know have whatsapp, signal, fb msgr and others in parallel. I don’t know which one is there most checked. I’ve sent Signal msgs to people who hand’t turned alerts for it on, and use something else normally. SMS is the only one that always cuts through the crap and lands on your main screen as alert.
[tantek]FYI: I don't use SMS because it is (1) single-device dependent (you can't setup multiple devices to send/receive on the same SMS #), and (2) SMS is a horrible source of security problems
[tantek]I'd say (3) SMS portability sucks across countries or you get weird charges for sending/receiving little bits of text - which is as obsolete as fax machines
[tonz]sure you do, but if I don’t know which preferred messenger you use, and my apps tell me you have installed three or more, it’s not obvious things will get read. I’ve had numerous messages not read because I sent it to a messenger app the other side had installed but didn’t actively use, and hadn’t set up alerts for. SMS always gets read, regardless of preferred messenger apps. When I know the other sides prefs then it’s a different
aaronpk I thought the goal of the lunch sessions was to give people an easy option for meeting new people without feeling like they have to do the emotional work of inviting themselves to a new group. I don't think that then also saying they need to propose a topic and location for food is a good suggestion
[tantek] What I observed in Berlin was groups of people who didn't necessarily know each other engaging in conversation and getting to know each other. Giving folks a "topic" reduced the awkwardness not only of forming groups (which are otherwise implicitly based on pre-existing social ties), but also reduced the awkwardness of what do we talk about
sknebel To be clear: I think proposed places for food, picking someone to lead people there and form groups going there before leaving is a good idea and better than the random wandering that e.g. happened in Berlin before (after it turned out none of the places that might have seated all where open)
petermolnar there's a Hungarian news outlet that put angry user letters up when you hit 404
[frank] Monocle also gives a 502. https://monocle.p3k.io/
aaronparecki.com edited /events/2019-06-26-homebrew-website-club (-3) "/* Portland */ Mozilla confirmed" (view diff)
boffosocko.com edited /soft_quit (+1086) "organized by date; Ben Werdmüller example with links; added to reasons" (view diff)
Loqi silo quits are public statements by individuals announcing they have publicly quit posting on or using (at all) various silos, either with intended permanence, or temporarily (sometimes referred to as taking a "social media break") https://indieweb.org/silo-quit
chrisaldrich quit includes some verbiage about breaks from silos in the definition, but the two are semantically different
loqi.me created /photo_publishing (+25) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
[grantcodes] Alrighty looks like HWC Madrid might be a thing soon!
Zegnat I wouldn’t really, unless more people show an actual interest. The last few vHWCs have felt like mostly the samee people showing up to hang out, sometimes leaving the chat silent for half an hour while everyone does their own thing. Personally I have no need to do more of those evenings. But maybe others have a different impression.
[tonz] [tantek] context: making sure the message is received. E.g. many I know have whatsapp, signal, fb msgr and others in parallel. I don’t know which one is there most checked. I’ve sent Signal msgs to people who hand’t turned alerts for it on, and use something else normally. SMS is the only one that always cuts through the crap and lands on your main screen as alert.
gRegorLove [schmarty] or GWG, have you been in contact with Tiara Miller? Invited her to IWS?
doubleloop.net edited /events/2019-05-29-homebrew-website-club (-21) "/* London */ Add addyourself list" (view diff)