#meta 2019-05-31

2019-05-31 UTC
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GWG jgmac1106[m]: Saw your planning email
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boffosocko.com edited /Events (+648) "Domain Camp 2019 starts 2019-06-11 for about 4 weeks" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com created /events/2019-06-11-DomainCamp2019 (+2015) "stub definition; basic details;" (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /js;dr (+341) "/* Unsorted Examples */ Added WikiWikiWeb." (view diff)
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colintedford.com edited /js;dr (+140) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Added Smallest Federated Wiki." (view diff)
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infominer[m] yaya!
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Loqi :D
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infominer[m] meta is where I belong
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infominer[m] >IndieWeb is an intentionally positive community that recognizes and celebrates the creativity and collaboration of independent creators (and independence) and the diversity of people, cultures, and opinions that they bring to IndieWeb.
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infominer[m] powerful sentence
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infominer[m] I think I should fit in nicely. My blog is for independent web-workers
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infominer[m] https://infominer.id/web-work/
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infominer[m] I really appreciate "intentionally positive community"
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infominer[m] there are parts of the web that I find necessary to keep up with, but are not "intentionally positive"
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infominer[m] I appreciate the counterbalance
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jmac jacky & tantek: Thanks! Honestly it was less a scratched itch than one that I realized wasn't itching any more after a year. :)
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jmac I began a sabbatical-like period a couple weeks ago and am trying to catch up on everything IndieWeb's done since I last looked. A few days ago I learned about indieweb.xyz, and today I discovered commentpara.de, and so on
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jmac there's so much amazing new work i feel impatient to learn everything. (Alas I can't make it out to portland this year!!)
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Loqi Just generated the first draft of this week's newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html I'll generate a draft again tomorrow, so please add to it before then! https://indieweb.org/this-week#How_to
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[tantek] whoa what happened to upcoming events there
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-06-11-DomainCamp2019 (+92) "try adding h-event markup" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-05-30-homebrew-website-club (+145) "/* Photos */ add Jeremy's photo" (view diff)
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aaronpk I bet that's it following the url of the event and finding old mf1 markup
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-05-29-homebrew-website-club (+0) "/* Photos */ sort London first" (view diff)
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aaronpk The /events page doesn't link to the wiki page, it links to the event's own url
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[tantek] ohhh
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tantek.com edited /Events (+20) "/* June */ fix event wiki page for Domains 2019" (view diff)
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[tantek] wait there's two of them
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tantek.com edited /Events (+18) "/* Upcoming */ Domains is different from Domains Camp, remove u-url that doesn't go to an h-event" (view diff)
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[tantek] let's see if that fixes it. confusing that there's a two day conference then a 4 week every tuesday thing
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[tantek] !tell [chrisaldrich] are you going to the Domains Conference or Domains Camp? Or do you know anyone in the IndieWeb community that is? Trying to fix the entries on /events and seeing if they both deserve their own local wiki pages
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[chrisaldrich] I was hoping to go to Domains conf., but sadly can't.
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[chrisaldrich] I'll be participating in the camp though.
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[chrisaldrich] I meant to add them to the /education page...
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[chrisaldrich] Though both are recurring.
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[tantek] I'm a bit confused by the camp - none of the pages say when it ends
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[tantek] also whether it's just Tuesdays or all week for weeks or ... ?
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chrisaldrich They release new content on Tuesdays and campers can work on it in their own time throughout the week.
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chrisaldrich I thought it was odd that there was no end date, but am presuming that it's going for 4 weeks like last years' camp.
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chrisaldrich It's structured like a MOOC, but with the name of an online camp.
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boffosocko.com edited /Indieweb_for_Education (+202) "/* Related Conferences */ Domain Camp" (view diff)
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[tantek] so it's a virtual camp? or are people camping somewhere together?
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jacky.wtf edited /dokku (+65) "/* Examples */ add my use of Dokku" (view diff)
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jacky.wtf edited /Docker (+109) "added use of docker via dokku" (view diff)
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[frank] What is Youtube
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Loqi YouTube is a video hosting silo that has known issues https://indieweb.org/youtube
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bunkham.com created /User:Bunkham.com (+257) "Created page with "{{Infobox person |name = Paul Bunkham |url = https://bunkham.com |photo_url = https://s.gravatar.com/avatar/f27534c260226216d2f4c30160be4755 |summary = Open web loving softwar..."" (view diff)
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sknebel !tell aaronpk I volunteer again for "poking at the server" duties - not sure what the progress of migrating the indieweb bits to their own server is?
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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[Ana_R] [tantek] I just had a look and wikipedia and they do Portuguese in a way that aims to be inclusive to every Portuguese speaker and they expect some articles to have a mixture of spelling depending on the editor’s origin as long as any Portuguese speaker can still understand.
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[Ana_R] https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Livro_de_estilo/Vers%C3%B5es_da_l%C3%ADngua_portuguesa
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[Ana_R] Given this, I will stick to just making it `pt` and do my best. The only reason I mentioned it was because I’ve seen projects separating them (even language apps) but I think this approach is more inclusive and invites others to edit and add stuff.
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sknebel [Ana_R]++ sounds like a good approach
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Loqi [Ana_R] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (2 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas Oh dear; upcoming events in the newsletter does not look good. Cannot look to see why, at the moment.
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[tantek] jeremycherfas see scrollback for some discussion first. Have tried some edits and waiting for regen
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Zegnat Guess regen is postponed while we wait for aaronpk to poke the server(s) again
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Loqi aaronpk: sknebel left you a message 4 hours, 51 minutes ago: I volunteer again for "poking at the server" duties - not sure what the progress of migrating the indieweb bits to their own server is?
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aaronpk Whoa what happened
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aaronpk it's back
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aaronpk sknebel: cool I can get you set up with that today. progress is good but I haven't yet moved the main domain to the new server yet
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aaronpk so far it's just the domains like webmention.net and 2019.indieweb.org that are on the new server
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-307) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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sknebel aaronpk: ok, I'll e-mail you later
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aaronpk Step 1 is getting set up with 1Password, I can send an invite to your email
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Zegnat For what it's worth, I already use 1Password. But I nominate sknebel for the server stuff anyway ;)
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petermolnar aaronpk: servers? in 2019? serverless!
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petermolnar /s
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aaronpk serverless is just someone else's server :P
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petermolnar hell yeah :D
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jeremycherfas Apologies [tantek] I declared scrollback bankrutpcy this morning. Sorry if I was pointing out the obvious.
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martymcgui.re edited /Planning (+31) "/* NYC */ update my prefs" (view diff)
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[schmarty] !tell [jgmac1106] thanks for forwarding the intro to the Parsons/New School folks. please let me know how i can help with organizing. i went ahead and marked myself a co-organizer. do you want to lock yourself in as well? :}
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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eddiehinkle.com edited /Planning (+103) "/* NYC */ add prefs for rest of the dates" (view diff)
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martymcgui.re edited /Planning (+61) "/* NYC */ oops MakerFaire NYC" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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jgmac1106 schmarty will do, off to try and get some actual writing done….gonna need to caputre my wiki edits over past year and then argue this counts as scholarly writing
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infominer[m] darn tootin' jgmac1106
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infominer[m] Original Research and Infographics are #1 and #1 in the content biz
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infominer[m] you won't be alone... plenty others working towards a similar end
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jgmac1106 if I seek a non academic job in the near future atleast I can say…”hey I edit a ton of wikis” but you are right community is the content
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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[jeremycherfas] gives Loqi a cookie
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Loqi investigates the cookie
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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GWG Where do you mark as a coorganizer?
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[schmarty] /Planning#NYC has a subsection for Co-Organizers.
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (+10) "/* NYC */" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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GWG Do we have any other IWCs in the works?
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aaronpk i think they are all documented on the planning page
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GWG I see, just wondering if anything serious
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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aaronparecki.com edited /Medium (+111) "add archive.org link" (view diff)
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[jgmac1106] [tmiller] welcome to join us as organizer, volunteer, or attendee
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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gregorlove.com created /User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox/location (+271) "template experiment" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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gRegorLove [tantek], I'm working on a template for an inline p-location on h-events. What do you think? Can you double-check the mf? https://indieweb.org/User:Gregorlove.com/sandbox#location_template
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gRegorLove Ditto for any other organizers. Idea was to make editing locations easier on hwc pages
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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Zegnat On first look the mf2 seems good, gRegorLove. wondering if it should downgrade from h-card to h-adr if no name is provided. Though I guess that is not super likely to get used.
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gRegorLove Good idea
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gRegorLove Wonder if the newsletter would pick up the p-location h-adr?
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aaronpk i think it does
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www.jvt.me edited /events/2019-05-29-homebrew-website-club (+365) "/* Nottingham */" (view diff)
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www.jvt.me edited /events/2019-06-12-homebrew-website-club (+366) "/* Nottingham */" (view diff)
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www.jvt.me edited /events/2019-06-26-homebrew-website-club (+367) "/* Nottingham */" (view diff)
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jamietanna[m] When will the newsletter be regenerated? Got a couple of fixes for Nottingham HWC that I missed last time
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gRegorLove Every half hour on Fridays I think, jamietanna[m]
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jamietanna[m] gRegorLove: thanks, I'll keep an eye out then
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gRegorLove The mf2 parse of it lgtm, so should come through next regeneration: http://php.microformats.io/?id=20190531202636819
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[tantek] gRegorLove++ I am a fan of better usability through templates++
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Loqi templates has 1 karma over the last year
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Loqi gRegorLove has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (86 in all channels)
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[tantek] What is serverless?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "serverless" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "serverless is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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Loqi Just generated this week's newsletter! You still have a few minutes to make changes, and I'll re-generate it 10 minutes before it gets sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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[tantek] serverless is just someone else's server.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /serverless (+68) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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sknebel [tantek]: I'm assuming you're expanding that dfn with indieweb relevance in the next 17 minutes? :P
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aaronpk sknebel++
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Loqi sknebel has 28 karma in this channel over the last year (115 in all channels)
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gRegorLove [schmarty] Have an HWC photo?
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[schmarty] no HWC NYC this week. i forgot to scrub it from the page. 😬
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gRegorLove https://gph.is/g/aejAymW
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gRegorLove What's the next HWC NYC?
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eddiehinkle.com edited /serverless (+349) "remove sass, provide relevant IndieWeb definition" (view diff)
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[schmarty] unscheduled at the moment!
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[eddie] serverless << /AWS_Lambda
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Loqi ok, I added "[[AWS_Lambda]]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /serverless https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=61919&oldid=61918
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loqi.me edited /serverless (+34) "[eddie] added "[[AWS_Lambda]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[eddie] AWS_Lambda << serverless
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Loqi ok, I added "[[serverless]]" to the "See Also" section of /AWS_Lambda https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=61920&oldid=59030
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[tantek] what is sass?
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Loqi Sass is a Stylesheet Language that extends CSS and is compiled into CSS before publishing https://indieweb.org/Sass
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[eddie] lol
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[tantek] 😄
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gRegorLove hahah
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[tantek] googles serverless to get some citations for misuse
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[tantek] lol there's literally a .com which brags about someone else's servers
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[tantek] I want a scarequote template
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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[tantek] wow the wikipedia page assumes serverless implies elastic cloud BaaS. wtf
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[tantek] what is BaaS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "BaaS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "BaaS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+106) "update from /Events" (view diff)
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sknebel hm? the initial dfn and the first section clearly talk about other FaaS etc too
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tantek.com created /Template:scarequote (+103) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /serverless (+317) "expand dfn, provide example, criticism section, lock-in, see also" (view diff)
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[schmarty] 😂😂 that scarequotes template
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sknebel AWS Lambda isn't really backend as a service
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tantek.com edited /serverless (+84) "include indieweb relevance in dfn" (view diff)
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[tantek] sknebel, Wikipedia disagrees with you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serverless_computing#Serverless_runtimes
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sknebel FaaS is not BaaS
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[tantek] on the contrary, AWS Lamba was the first such serverless service
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[tantek] will broaden dfn
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sknebel where is "backend as a service" is not mentioned on the wikipedia page at all
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tantek.com edited /serverless (+1) "actually FaaS" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /serverless (+0) "s/Baas/Faas" (view diff)
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aaronparecki.com edited /2018/Planning (+103) "/* Notes from previous years */" (view diff)
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[tantek] though https://martinfowler.com/articles/serverless.html includes BaaS in the dfn
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[tantek] haha that diagram
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[tantek] could redo it and change the words, e.g. IndieAuth Authentication service, Microsub client, server, Micropub client
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tantek.com edited /serverless (+196) "also BaaS according to another dfn" (view diff)
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sknebel I vastly prefer using the more specific terms, because "serverless" is kind of this grab-bag of different things - people typically mean FaaS + X, but not always
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aaronpk doesn't serverless also include google cloud platform?
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sknebel GCP has offerings that would be "serverless", yes
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aaronpk in which case i'd say it's a little more than "which have been used for experimental IndieWeb building blocks implementations"
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aaronpk given that bridgy has been running on it for many years
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sknebel if you want to include AppEngine, then yes :D
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sknebel (which one arguably can. E.g. wikipedia excludes it because it was python only, which seems like a nonsense distinction)
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tantek.com created /Template:scarequote/doc (+42) "stub" (view diff)
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[kevinmarks786] Appengine classic is serverless in that definition
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[tantek] probably better to provide dfns / examples of BaaS and FaaS
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[tantek] instead of doublethink
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[tantek] what is BaaS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "BaaS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "BaaS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] what is FaaS
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "FaaS" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "FaaS is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Bridgy AFAIK is a client-server-BaaS architecture
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[tantek] not client-BaaS
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[tantek] so it's not "serverless" by any even doublethink dfn
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Loqi Generated a new draft of the newsletter! https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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sknebel What's a "client-server-BaaS" architecture?
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sknebel AppEngine classic does that "write in our pattern/framework and we'll take care of scaling for you, you don't need to know how many instances/... are involved in the backend, and we bill you for the resources actually used" thing serverless is often defined as
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[kevinmarks786] Also it spins up instances fast (unlike AppEngine new and worse)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2019-151-database-error-occured.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2019-151-database-error-occured.png"
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jamietanna[m] Woo, HWC Nottingham works again
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[kevinmarks786] Google says as much: https://cloud.google.com/appengine/docs/the-appengine-environments
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sknebel jamietanna[m]++
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Loqi jamietanna[m] has 2 karma in this channel over the last year (3 in all channels)
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tantek.com edited /database (+21) "separate criticism from see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /A_Database_Error_Occurred (+147) "stub" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /A_Database_Error_Occurred (+328) "example" (view diff)
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Loqi Generated the final version of the newsletter! This will be sent out at 3pm Pacific time. https://indieweb.org/this-week/2019-05-31.html
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tantek.com edited /A_Database_Error_Occurred (+206) "see also Google Search, common problem" (view diff)
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2019-05-31-database-error-occurred-2.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2019-05-31-database-error-occurred-2.png"
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tantek.com edited /A_Database_Error_Occurred (+776) "more examples and common dev question on forums" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /A_Database_Error_Occurred (+206) "example apparently from CodeIgniter" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /A_Database_Error_Occurred (-20) "/* Examples */ shorter URL" (view diff)
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jamietanna[m] Haha for a minute I was worried the wiki/Loqi was broken again
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aaronpk what is share?
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Loqi share is a watered down verb that's used on the "social web" (and other platforms like Google's Android) to mean pretty much any action https://indieweb.org/share
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aaronpk share << https://github.com/WICG/web-share-target/blob/master/docs/explainer.md
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Loqi ok, I added "https://github.com/WICG/web-share-target/blob/master/docs/explainer.md" to the "See Also" section of /share https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=61943&oldid=12433
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tantek.com edited /site-deaths (+699) "/* 2014 */ Petition Online" (view diff)
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Loqi do we show up in the google event search yet? https://www.google.com/search?q=mozilla&ibp=htl;events&htivrt=events
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Loqi Countdown set by aaronpk on 2019-05-27 at 4:16pm PDT
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aaronpk we do! \o/
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aaronpk and also for "indieweb"! https://www.google.com/search?q=indieweb&ibp=htl;events
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sknebel interesting, that gives an error page ("your device or location is not supported yet") here, not even just the normal search results
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[tantek] THAT RESULT IS FROM MY WEBSITE!!!
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[tantek] click the 🌎 More Info link
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aaronpk i don't see it
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[tantek] right column
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aaronpk i see the link but i don't see the result from your site
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[tantek] CLICK THE LINK
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aaronpk i see indieweb.org, calagator, and evensi.us
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[tantek] the second one
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[tantek] "also for "indieweb"!"
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aaronpk none of the ones i see link to your site
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[tantek] https://www.google.com/search?q=indieweb&ibp=htl;events
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[tantek] from the search for indieweb?!?
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aaronpk yeah
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[tantek] all I see is one result: 12 Jun Homebrew Website Club SF! Wed, 5:30 PM Mozilla San Francisco, 2 Harrison St #175 San Francisco, CA
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aaronpk i bet it's localizing the events
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[tantek] the Mozilla events search I see IndieWeb Summit from events.mozilla page
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aaronpk i see 3 listings for indieweb summit in portland
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[tantek] for the IndieWeb events search I only see one result Homebrew Website Club SF
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aaronpk so it's returning only nearby events
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[tantek] wow even in normal google search it shows up in the "one box"
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aaronpk https://i.imgur.com/5BaUcIt.png
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[tantek] screenshots coming. this is too cool
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gRegorLove I see "Information and Tickets" with Tantek's photo and name, "More Info" button links to https://tantek.com/2019/163/e1/homebrew-website-club-sf
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aaronpk now what's interesting is where are they getting this info from?
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[tantek] likely the classic hCalendar on my page
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aaronpk what about the wiki tho?
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[tantek] however I only posted this event late Wednesday night
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[tantek] nothing in the result links to the wiki
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[tantek] so Google is preferring *something* about my site
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aaronpk we only have mf2 markup on https://indieweb.org/2019
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[tantek] how about HWC 2019-06-12?
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aaronpk i don't know, that event doesn't show up for me
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[tantek] when is next-hwc
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Loqi Homebrew Website Club Meetup was on 2019-05-29 at tollwerkstatt https://indieweb.org/next-hwc
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tantek.com edited /next-hwc (+0) "next 06-12!" (view diff)
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aaronpk whoa google says it fouudn hcalendar https://search.google.com/test/rich-results?id=h_ggRadJjcTZEHiEhJHkzQ
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[tantek] https://indieweb.org/events/2019-06-12-homebrew-website-club has classic hCalendar also
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aaronpk (can you see that link?)
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[tantek] wait what
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+0) "next hwc" (view diff)
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[tantek] yes /2019 has <div class="h-event vevent">
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[tantek] h-event and hCalendar
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[tantek] it's likely finding the hCalendar
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aaronpk oh "vevent"
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aaronpk i was searching "hevent"
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[tantek] yeah sorry
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aaronpk well that's good to know they still parse that
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[tantek] could someone add Oxford and Brighton to 2019.indieweb.org ?
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loqi.me created /Google_Search (+185) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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aaronpk you can click the edit button on https://github.com/indieweb/2019.indieweb.org/blob/master/public/index.php and copy another event
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2019-151-google-search-onebox-microformats.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2019-151-google-search-onebox-microformats.png"
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tantek.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:2019-151-google-event-search-microformats.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:2019-151-google-event-search-microformats.png"
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aaronpk feel free to upload the screenshots i posted too
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tantek.com edited /Google () "(-801) /* Search */" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Google_Search (+2994) "expand with info from [[Google]], and Google Supports Microformats" (view diff)
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aaronpk !alpha days until 2019-09-23
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Loqi 115 days
[cleverdevil] joined the channel
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aaronpk 115 days until aaronpk and tantek met 10 years ago! http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2009-09-23-weekly-dinner-sf
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Loqi I added a countdown scheduled for 2019-09-23 4:49pm PDT (#6567)
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Loqi Microformats dinner meetup and drink-up!
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GWG Where was it?
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aaronpk at the microformats weekly dinner in SF :)
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GWG That sounds like a story
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aaronpk it's all there on the wiki page :)
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GWG I am sure that my overdramatic version is far from reality.
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aaronpk there are some dramatizations that are missing from this description https://indieweb.org/Google_Search#Aaron_and_Tantek_met_via_Google_Search
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aaronpk maybe i will write a blog post in september with all the details :)
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tantek.com edited /Google_Search (+598) "note use of microformats, nothing else needed, note which event information is shown" (view diff)
chrisaldrich joined the channel
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chrisaldrich bookmark << https://www.manton.org/2016/03/03/the-evolution-of.html
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Loqi ok, I added "https://www.manton.org/2016/03/03/the-evolution-of.html" to the "See Also" section of /bookmark https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=61955&oldid=59895
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Loqi The evolution of linkblogging
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[tantek] awww