#meta 2020-01-14

2020-01-14 UTC
[snarfed], chrisaldrich, petermolnar and [Rose] joined the channel
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aaronpk hm, grouping events by day is tricky
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[tantek] even assuming their "local day"?
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aaronpk it looks weird when there's only one event in the month
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aaronpk technically it's easy but it looks wrong
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[tantek] that's fine. good incentive to make more than one event a month 😄
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[tantek] plan some HWCs 🙂
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aaronpk sure but planning that far out...
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[tantek] yup
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aaronpk like this looks silly https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2020-01-13-17-39-07-jGtriNkqx9.jpg
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aaronpk also -- what happens with multiday events??
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Loqi also has -1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] I was figuring more like just a number like 📅
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[tantek] start day
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aaronpk this one looks fine because you can see the grouping https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2020-01-13-17-40-13-Yh0DWyCmdS.jpg
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[tantek] the redundant dates look noisy tho
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aaronpk (i'm going to change the line under the name of the event to show just the time if I do this)
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[tantek] the date under the event and in the heading
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[tantek] oh ok
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aaronpk i'm more concerned with multi-day and months with only one event right now...
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aaronpk do I just drop the day header?
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aaronpk hm, I think the day header group is only relevant when there are multiple events in the same day that have a time
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aaronpk I think that's the criteria that should turn on the day grouping
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aaronpk I didn't think this was going to be such a challenge
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aaronpk yeah this is wrong too
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aaronpk ooook, punting on this for now. feel free to chime in here https://github.com/indieweb/events.indieweb.org/issues/2
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Loqi [aaronpk] #2 Group events by day?
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[KevinMarks] have a look at google calendar schedule view
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aaronpk that repeats multi-day events on each day which is kinda weird
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aaronpk also most of the time google calendar has more than one event per day due to how it's used
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[KevinMarks] right, but by having day and month as a row heading on the left it is easier to scan
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aaronpk you're unlikely to have a view that has "25 Feb" followed by "3 Oct" in google, but that's likely to happen on the events website
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aaronpk and then you lose the month grouping
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[KevinMarks] fair point, it gets less clear when sparse
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aaronpk like this is just not readable at all https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2020-01-13-17-59-58-nINK4g2RHw.jpg
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[KevinMarks] you could alternate stripe the months, maybe
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aaronpk 27 3 17 25
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aaronpk oof I don't want it to look like a spreadsheet
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[tantek] yeah no
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[tantek] Google Calendar has horribly busy UI
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[tantek] not a great source of examples
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[KevinMarks] well, it's a small multiples kind of thing
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aaronpk it looks okay for a dense calendar
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[tantek] there's effectively zero competitive pressure so their UI inevitably degrades to whatever mediocre thing corporations (enterprise) will put up with.
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[tantek] nah it's classic enterprise calendar scheduling UX which assumes all your time should be filled and presents it to you as such with lots of empty space begging to be filled
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aaronpk no the schedule view not weekly
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aaronpk https://media.aaronpk.com/Screen-Shot-2020-01-13-18-03-32-ypl7Rtasnp.jpg
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[tantek] that only works for a single person with a particular timeline.
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[tantek] does not work well for parallel events in different cities etc.
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[tantek] day primary, then city/location, and only then time and details
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[tantek] because that's what users will be doing. scan down to today, is there anything for my city, ok what time
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aaronpk calagator is an interesting example http://calagator.org/
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Loqi Open Source Peer Mentoring (Monday Python, for Python JavaScript, Django, React and all open source)
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aaronpk they just don't group by months at all
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aaronpk but again I think it works okay because the calagator calendar tends to be pretty dense
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[KevinMarks] if you did the google thing but with month first, then day, without repeating the months I think it would look clear, especially if you have a stronger line between months
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[KevinMarks] that might be less good if you have more per month than a screenful, but you could use position:sticky for that
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[jgmac1106] aaronpk I thought we had a page on 2020 online. gwg can you do the PR or do you need me?
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@gnatsstang ↩️ @HamillHimself @Facebook Try this one. https://indieweb.org/CounterSocial (twitter.com/_/status/1216921241816391680)
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@Weegee I don't care at all what it actually contains. Something called "The Feed Directory" will get me. Every. Time http://bit.ly/2Nl8Qrt (via Indieweb XYZ) (twitter.com/_/status/1216921540371144704)
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GWG [jgmac1106]: I am still wondering if we need one if we have the events page
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[jgmac1106] Does seem duplicative.
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GWG I think IWC Online is more like an HWC in that it doesn't need a second page
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[tantek] lolwut. I documented https://indieweb.org/CounterSocial as a warning, not as a reference!
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aaronpk heh that's the problem with stating facts in a neutral tone, people can read that either way they want to
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aaronpk Still kinda weird to link to our wiki page instead of, you know, the actual site
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[tantek] yeah. our wiki page is the 4th Google result though
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@tomofweeks @wencesg says: "we're facing the unethical evolution of many social platforms, but there is a movement called the #IndieWeb that understands you're done with others owning your content and your identity!" https://app.quuu.co/r/2JQRO #startup (twitter.com/_/status/1217008591133167616)
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@mrgnrdrck Homebrew Website Club in Berlin is tomorrow! https://roderick.dk/2020/01/07/hwc-berlin-2020-01-15/ People are keen to talk about some of their tools, which should be very interesting! No RSVP required, just show up. Ping @WebReflection for questions. (twitter.com/_/status/1217045899089797120)
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[tantek] aaronpk, a bit concerned by the *fwo* random new accounts saying “test” in the main channel. That means spam is coming
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[tantek] two* even
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@jgmac1106 @traceyhabla You should head to @indiewebcamp Austin (try to drag Corn and Bob too) https://events.indieweb.org/2020/02/indiewebcamp-austin-u3dbwLzWR2pV if I draft up an email can share on any UT-Austin even pages or listservs? (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/vwsY2) (twitter.com/_/status/1217095909156294658)
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[Marlin_Forbes] just pointing out those are app posts
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aaronpk hmm they are from the same IP address could be the same person
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aaronpk all IRC users look like "apps" on the slack side, that's how the bridge works
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[Marlin_Forbes] got it
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[schmarty] uh oh. who runs https://node.microformats.io/ ?
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aaronpk I think that's the one that isn't on heroku
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[tantek] Anything Node and microformats I would check with Glenn Jones
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aaronpk a selection of tags now appear at the top of the page https://events.indieweb.org
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aaronpk they are tags that are used in more than one upcoming event
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aaronpk good incentive for HWC organizers to post more than one upcoming HWC :)
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[schmarty] Ha!
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aaronpk but really the reason was it felt odd to click a tag and see just one event, plus the list of tags with just one event is currently quite long
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[davidmead] aaronpk added comment & example to https://github.com/indieweb/events.indieweb.org/issues/2
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Loqi [aaronpk] #2 Group events by day?
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aaronpk cool thanks! that's an interesting suggestion too
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aaronpk but that doesn't address the issue that started this, which is when multiple events happen on the same day
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aaronparecki.com edited /Planning (-102) "/* Planned */ replace embedded list with a link to the events site so there's one less list to maintain (it was already out of date)" (view diff)
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[davidmead] the two in august overlap in my example. if they both start on the same day you’d have to second sort by name of event or location
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aaronpk sure but I need an example mockup of 5 HWC eventson the same day
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[davidmead] ok
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[davidmead] i can do that
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aaronpk that's the clustering we're trying to solve
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[davidmead] is this from people’s feedback or an intellectual problem based on use case?
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aaronpk it was a comment from tantek https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2020-01-13/1578943348943300
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Loqi [[tantek]] would be handy to see which HWCs are meeting on a particular day when people want to see if there is one in their city that week
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aaronpk when there's a bunch of events on the same day, it's useful to show that relationship
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[tantek] Literally happens nearly every two weeks or more often. Not an “intellectual exercise”
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[tantek] See the index of past /HWC events
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aaronparecki.com edited /Planning (+39) "/* Berlin */" (view diff)
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[davidmead] don’t get me wrong. not saying it’s noodling for noodling sake, more is the day more valuable than the date or location to the user.
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[davidmead] if you’ve had feedback saying “i wish i could see all events for this day around the owrld”
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aaronpk I think it's more a question of reducing visual clutter
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[davidmead] great for us as a group, but not for useful for someone in brighton or munich looking to attend
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aaronpk i'm happy with the current presentation of the events from february onward. but once there start to be several events listed on the same day, it looks cluttered because of all the repeated information
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[davidmead] added revision to show multiple events on same day
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aaronpk ok yeah that has the same issue as the current design
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aaronpk but, now that there's a "15th" header, I could imagine dropping the repeated "15th" for the other following events
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[KevinMarks] I can see it working with:
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[KevinMarks] Jan 15 Homebrew Website Club San Diego
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[KevinMarks] er
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[KevinMarks] `Jan 15 Homebrew Website Club San Diego`
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[KevinMarks] `Homebrew Website Club Pullman`
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[KevinMarks] `6pm San Diego, California`
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[KevinMarks] `6pm Pullman, Washington`
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[KevinMarks] `22 Homebrew Website Club: Nottingham`
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[KevinMarks] `5:30pm`
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[KevinMarks] where the indents are done with CSS, obviously. Then you can use position:sticky to make them hang around while scrolling
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aaronpk maybe. i'd be worried about doing anything with effectively a table layout on skinny screens tho cause these names get quite long
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@HongPong NEW #Drupal #indieweb release Microformats for Drupal 8. v 1.0-alpha1 https://drupal.org/project/microformats Many thanks to @mlncn @agaric @drutopiaforgood for contributing time and patches to complete this initial feature set which provides configurable H-card sitewide markup (twitter.com/_/status/1217133203640782849)
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erambler.co.uk edited /IndieAuth (+35) "Update "this wiki" try IndieAuth link" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /whitespace (+276) "about time this got its own page, so much to capture here (and consolidate from other pages)" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /note (+133) "/* Whitespace */ needs consolidation into [[whitespace]]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /whitespace (+11) "link to section" (view diff)
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@rmnvsl "Independence without isolation" - idea behind the #IndieWeb. Own your own content & share with others without a middleman. Watch a talk by @mxbck to know today's possibilities. (twitter.com/_/status/1217179723320700928)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @obra Remember when we called it HTML5 for a bit before switching back to HTML? That, but for Web. #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1217184660112990209)
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@ChrisAldrich I changed the theme of my website the other day, so I spent a few minutes this morning updating the microformats in it to be more IndieWeb friendly. Here’s hoping I haven’t broken anything too badly. (https://boffosocko.com/?p=55764584) (twitter.com/_/status/1217185015043444737)
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[tantek] I think I'm going to delete the /whitespace page and (re-)use /space since it's nothing but a lolinition I apparently created a few years ago. And then redirect /blankspace /whitespace etc. to /space and can expand further there. Thoughts?
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[schmarty] that works for me!
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tantek.com deleted /whitespace "not a good default framing"
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tantek.com deleted /space "content was ~3yo lolinition, not helpful/relevant to indieweb"
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tantek.com created /space (+491) "recreat with a more useful purpose" (view diff)
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[tantek] there we go, that's a start
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[tantek] what is space
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Loqi space is typically used in IndieWeb contexts to refer to presentational blank space(s) on web pages, and the space between words and lines of text, including line-breaks, sometimes used to format note posts, like to indent lines, or with specific meaning like text lists without markup https://indieweb.org/space
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Loqi space has 1 karma over the last year
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[schmarty] space++
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tantek.com created /whitespace (+19) "recreate as redirect" (view diff)
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gRegorLove Hm, something weird with two rsvp sections here https://events.indieweb.org/2020/01/homebrew-website-club-pullman-NqpLcP9XTLpq
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gRegorLove Oh the first one is in the Description, copied from wiki
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aaronpk Oh yeah don't do that
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