#meta 2020-06-24

2020-06-24 UTC
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GWG How do we decide how many rooms we need?
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[tantek] an excellent question
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[chrisaldrich] I'm also thinking we can use breakout sessions within something like the main room as smaller sub-sessions or hallway tracks for chatting. We don't necessarily need additional "rooms".
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[chrisaldrich] The real key for any sort of hallway tracks or Birds of a Feather sessions like that is having an easy way to message them so that attendees will know they exist and how to get there.
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[jgmac1106] if you have more proposed sessions than available time slots you need a new room. If you do not, then one romm will do
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[chrisaldrich] Zoom breakout rooms: https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/206476093-Enabling-breakout-rooms#:~:text=Overview,between%20sessions%20at%20any%20time.
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[jgmac1106] I use breakout rooms in teaching they are useful
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[chrisaldrich] We might want to doublecheck the admin settings on the accounts we do have to make sure the functionality we will want will be "on".
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[tantek] [jgmac1106] other way around, as camp facilitators, we should *strongly* encourage parallel sessions to avoid the problem of one individual being able to dominate and "take down" the entire camp
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[jgmac1106] especially if you end up with sessions with 20 people.....nothing worse than a broadcast webinar
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[tantek] and that too!
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[jgmac1106] ...yes agree but so far online one track was all the interest...looking at numbers for IWC West though and two tracks work
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[tantek] the key to enabling the community to enforce community norms around "bad" sessions, is to make sure there are enough sessions so people have the choice to move around
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[jgmac1106] I would email attendees with directions and encouragement on proposing sessions
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[jgmac1106] yep "vote with your feet" only possible with multiple tracks
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[tantek] we've seen this at several past camps. someone proposes a subject that turns out no one else has an interest in, the room sits empty with the in it for a while, they come to the self-realization (as opposed to be told by any top-down authority) that the subject is not important or relevant in the context of the current gathering, they give up of their own free will their subject, and go contribute to a different subject
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[tantek] from a delegation of power perspective, this kind of dynamic is essential
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aaronpk "they come to the self-realization (as opposed to be told by any top-down authority)" <-- this is the key
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[chrisaldrich] With multiple online rooms, it will be much easier to move since the social norms of in-person attendance make it seem more rude to get up and walk out...
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[tantek] also results in a learning feedback loop (hopefully) wherein participants may try harder to pick more community-relevant subjects instead of self-centric subjects
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[jgmac1106] 100% agree. Our last two IWC Online just didn't have the numbers or interest for two tracks....but I agree on trying to have two rooms minumum
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[jgmac1106] also need to think about a "not recorded" option for a room
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[tantek] yes
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[tantek] IDK if I've written down this "multi-track" dynamic before but I'm pretty convinced it's important
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aaronpk we can make one of the accounts not auto-record, and use that room when needed
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[chrisaldrich] One thing I have liked about past online versions was the ability to be in two rooms at once. Participate in one while keeping an eye on the other.
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[tantek] interesting
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[tantek] list astral projecting yourself into the second room lol
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[tantek] like*
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[jgmac1106] chrisaldrich "vote with your feet" is a key component of EdCamp...supposed to be live feedback that your session aint good...or simply the person who gets up isn't interersted
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aaronpk [jgmac1106]: doesn't stop it from being awkward to get up and walk out
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[chrisaldrich] Though the in-person camps didn't always have the ability to see remote attendees the way we will here...
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[jgmac1106] we spend a lot of time in the beginning explaining that leaving a session improves the overall camp and more imporantly their own learning
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[tantek] aaronpk is exactly correct
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[tantek] this is why I have disliked the framing "vote with your feet"
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[tantek] it makes it very awkward on the individual participant
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[tantek] especially if they're the second to last person in a room
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[jgmac1106] ..I know...and we have built up culture over years....but will think on "vote with your feet" as a phrase...good point
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[jgmac1106] other way to look at it too as an organizer if somebody did propose a session and nobody showed up...maybe you should
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[chrisaldrich] Mark Granovetter's psychology work may have something to illuminate there [jgmac1106]. Perhaps an inverse version of his mob-theory?
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[jgmac1106] I am not there (I think unless we bail seeing my parents...they live in Ocean City, NJ ..seeing Myrtle Beach , SC spikes getting nervous
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[jgmac1106] not familiar Chris will look it up
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[jgmac1106] But I think maybe you make the session grid now and have two available tracks, and then a third room that is not recorded if anyone wants to propose sessions there
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[jgmac1106] tantek if you wanted to play with your WestWorld idea I do have a movie poster project Mozilla made for "Girls Who Code" I think I made one for IWC Online with [eddie] and gwg
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[jgmac1106] like daily challenges included in the update to ticket holders or something
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[jgmac1106] https://movieposters.glitch.me/
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[tantek] I think there was enough of a mixed reaction to WestWord to avoid it.
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[tantek] I admit I liked the aesthetics of the branding more than the plot / worldbuilding
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[jgmac1106] I meant just make a "movie poster" I like the community engagement idea...
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[tantek] yeah, still problematic to reference (elevate, glorify) problematic material
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[jgmac1106] I just liked the first season...not much after that
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[tantek] re: "if somebody did propose a session and nobody showed up...maybe you should" <-- too much burden to ask of a non-organizer IMO
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[jgmac1106] start of sentence "other way to look at it too as an organizer if"
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[tantek] However, I have done that (voluntarily) myself, as a co-organizer, to help make someone (especially new) feel welcome "in general" and find a way to connect what they're working on to topics that others are working on
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[tantek] ah, missed that specific pairing/connection of "organizer ... you"
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[jgmac1106] the syntax isn't too clear...but yeah I have seen you do it..it is awesome
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[tantek] sometimes that has worked, and I've been able to redirect someone to a more community-centric discussion approach
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[tantek] other times, some people have kept reverting to their original topic and trying to push it into every group they join
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[tantek] I've seen this with blokechain advocates
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[tantek] oh I need to define that don't I and why...
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[jgmac1106] I was thinking it...."or you end up in a long session on blockchain saving the world"
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[chrisaldrich] Usually there is a bit of a straw poll in in-person camps to adjust the crowd to the size of a room which tends to minimize the two person session which may become awkward. How can we recreate that in an online setting?
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[jgmac1106] but still it is the right thing to do....even if it costs 40 minutes you will never get back
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[tantek] chrisaldrich, please collect that in the agenda for the Organizers meetup on Friday!
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[chrisaldrich] And of course sometimes there are some very enthusiastic two person sessions which are completely unawkward too...
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[tantek] what is 2020/West/Organizers?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "2020/West/Organizers" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "2020/West/Organizers is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[chrisaldrich] What is 2020/West/Planning?
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/2020/West/Planning
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[jgmac1106] ...yeah that is the thing...you can just have the two person sessions....but I would send out a "hot to prose session" email soon
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[chrisaldrich] We could put that there too ^^
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[jgmac1106] how*
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[chrisaldrich] 2020/West/Planning << Usually there is a bit of a straw poll in in-person camps to adjust the crowd to the size of a room which tends to minimize the two person session which may become awkward. How can we recreate that in an online setting?
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Loqi ok, I added "Usually there is a bit of a straw poll in in-person camps to adjust the crowd to the size of a room which tends to minimize the two person session which may become awkward. How can we recreate that in an online setting?" to the "See Also" section of /2020/West/Planning https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=70505&oldid=70504
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[jgmac1106] I got three kids to put to bed now...but you are welcome to add it...it takes a bunch of clicking to get to the session etherpad
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[tantek] 2020/West/Organizers is a half-day pre-meetup of IndieWebCamp [[Organizers]] to finish [[2020/West/Planning|planning last minute details]] of [[2020/West|IndieWebCamp West]], and discuss community dynamics and other [[Organizer]] issues.
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Loqi ok
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loqi.me created /2020/West/Organizers (+264) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG ^^^ please add the expected scheduling time etc. for 2020/West/Organizers
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[jgmac1106] I also found do not use any wikimedia markup on the session planning etherpad (even though I probably did) it confuses folks
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[jgmac1106] be back later all.,...bedtimes
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GWG [tantek]: We've traditionally done it at about 9:30AM Pacific.
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[tantek] GWG, sounds good to me, start adding such details, perhaps based on a previous camp's Organizers meetup
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[tantek] we had one at Summit, two at Berlin
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GWG [tantek]: I think we need an event on the events page.
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jacky event-ception
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GWG That would allow RSVP etc. But I'll create both.
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[tantek] GWG, in the past we have not created a separate RSVP-able event on the event page for the Organizers meetup
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[tantek] IIRC we have always used only a wiki page for them
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[tantek] with RSVP by deliberate list item entry
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[tantek] though I'm having second thoughts now
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[tantek] and maybe RSVP via events.indieweb would be better
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[tantek] jacky, WDYT?
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GWG Well, we can have the event and not share the Zoom link publicly.
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jacky this looks like RSVP for each session
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GWG This is a separate thing from the event, as is the Friday night event.
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GWG That's why there are separate pieces for them.
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jacky ahh then definitely a separate event
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GWG But, how many hours are we penciling in? Traditionally, we'd go to either 13:00 or 13:30
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jacky it's contextually relevant but semantically separate
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jacky technically, you don't have to put a end time :)
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GWG I'll still put one. We can go over.
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jacky sounds good
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GWG I'll put it as 13:00.
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GWG That is 3.5 hours
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+735) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (-7) "/* Who */" (view diff)
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[tantek] GWG, that sounds good, and then setup a break in the middle please, at least 30 min 🙂
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GWG Maybe I'll see if I want to take part of the day off. I'm going to have a lot of trouble using up my vacation time this year
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[tantek] e.g. maybe we go from 9:30-11:00, 30 min break, resume 11:30-13:00. WDYT?
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+94) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+29) "/* Who */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+62) (view diff)
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gRegorLove +1 Zoom fatigue is real
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gregorlove.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+107) "categories, see also" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+1722) (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+1751) "/* Topics from Previous Meetings */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+2) "/* Day 1 Start Hack */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+17) "/* Notes */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers () "(-1684) /* Topics from Previous Meetings */" (view diff)
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+440) (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] I can't imagine that we'll have anyone crashing such a Friday meeting. Likely only those who are regularly around will see it. It also won't make the newsletter.
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david.shanske.com edited /Organizers (+315) "/* Issues */" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] https://hbr.org/2020/04/how-to-combat-zoom-fatigue
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david.shanske.com edited /2020/West/Organizers (+194) (view diff)
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GWG [chrisaldrich]: I just put up the page if you have anything to add to it?
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[chrisaldrich] I was just pulling it up and reading through...
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[chrisaldrich] was planning on waiting a bit so any changes wouldn't cause conflicts for you...
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GWG I'm done for now
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GWG I really want to talk about how we move the online medium forward
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GWG I foresee it will be online more than in person for 2020
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@lobstersbot How To Create An IndieWeb Profile https://kevq.uk/how-to-create-an-indieweb-profile/ https://lobste.rs/s/hkcezl/how_create_indieweb_profile #web (twitter.com/_/status/1275630281727397888)
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@tripticonomicon https://triptico.com/links/how-to-create-an-indieweb-profile.html Kev Quirk gives a primer on h-card creation: https://kevq.uk/how-to-create-an-indieweb-profile/ (twitter.com/_/status/1275658668189630464)
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[fluffy] So are we going to try to use voice box karaoke’s online thing?
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[jgmac1106] we did karokee at oer20 but we used ds106.tv
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[jgmac1106] in terms of session olanning I like the idea of a hybrid approach allow people to put down ideas and propose session early but then do a live grid planning. we just did that for a web components unconference I went to last week.
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@jgmac1106 Other options for your h-card as well without using display: none (which I do sometime in a pinch). Check out this page: https://indieweb.org/authorship#How_to_publish I like a minimal h-card on my homepage and a bigger expanded one in my about me (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/2lcFZ3) (twitter.com/_/status/1275776639272652802)
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@jgmac1106 ↩️ Maybe we propose a session on h-cards and authoring at upcoming @IndieWebCamp this weekend...Folks spent lot of time working on the pages for author and author discovery...Lot of people have same questions when first adding h-card (https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/s/5VEOK) (twitter.com/_/status/1275777620542722048)
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@BenMFFowler ↩️ No, it's not... snitch tagging is a special case of explicitly person-mentioning someone in a reply to or quotation of a post which mentions that same someone more obliquely (like plain text or a nickname) as a way of notifying that person of the critique https://indieweb.org/snitch_tagging (twitter.com/_/status/1275795137017364487)
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@w3bk3rn3l I invite you to join Online Homebrew Website Clube Europe London starting at 1900UTC (1100 PDT). https://events.indieweb.org/2020/06/online-homebrew-website-club-europe-london-iYEZJr6Rp3rt (twitter.com/_/status/1275835350263398400)
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@artlung ↩️ a reminder of why I keep a personal website which I control. a fine reminder that though I am an enthusiastic user of Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter on those platforms I do not have agency to post as I see fit. #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1275841972486279170)
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@vincentlistens ↩️ Look up #indieweb ! This isn't the exact process I use, but @mxbck explains it well here: https://mxb.dev/blog/syndicating-content-to-twitter-with-netlify-functions/ (twitter.com/_/status/1275860026666520581)
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@JamieTanna A slightly quiet #HomebrewWebsiteClub Nottingham - but I managed to make some headway into a Micropub client for my site (https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2020/06/tlnej/) (twitter.com/_/status/1275862250973204487)
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