#meta 2020-07-20

2020-07-20 UTC
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tonyburns.net edited /User:Tonyburns.net (+48) (view diff)
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@megarush1024 ↩️ This should help you get started: https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_on_WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/1285075509894840321)
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@mereteresa ↩️ Yep : Publish (on your) Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere Doc : https://indieweb.org/POSSE @nhoizey a fait une conférence à PW dessus : https://www.paris-web.fr/2019/conferences/ne-vous-laissez-plus-deposseder-de-vos-contenus.php (twitter.com/_/status/1285121006538035201)
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loqi.me created /Bibliogram (+187) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Bibliogram (+328) "Zegnat added "[https://git.sr.ht/~cadence/bibliogram-docs/tree/master/docs/Instances.md Some instances] also enable generating [[feeds]] from public profiles. Example: for [https://bibliogram.snopyta.org/u/bbc BBC], [https://bibliogram.snopyta.org/u/bb..." (view diff)
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kimberlyhirsh.com edited /read (+27) "/* Sessions */" (view diff)
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prologic.blog edited /twtxt (+900) "Major overhaul and update" (view diff)
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[tantek] hey folks here who contributed to IndieWeb work, specs, specs at W3C, would you be interested in forming an explicit W3C Community Group (CG) for the IndieWeb? The point would be to give our existing work more visibility (not create yet another place for work). I believe a CG can link to existing community resources instead of making new ones
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[tantek] I point it out because for example there is a group for https://www.w3.org/community/solid/
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[tantek] Also the aggregate activity of each CG is elevated and sorted in this dashboard of the"most active" CGs: https://w3c.github.io/cg-monitor/
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aaronpk intereesting, what counts as activity for that list?
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aaronpk "mail, repository, wiki, blog, join" looks like?
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[tantek] yes. hah was just about to mention you. also curious what other folks here think who view W3C as highly regarded and would want their work surfaced there
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[tantek] could link "mail" to the chat archives
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[tantek] or the chat "feeds"? (we have some right?)
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aaronpk could we?
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aaronpk how are they generating those graphs?
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aaronpk also could we link "wiki" to our wiki instead of the w3c wiki?
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[tantek] pretty sure when a CG is created, the creators get to say what each resource links to
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aaronpk i mean for the stats
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aaronpk looks like it's hardcoded to w3.org wiki, i wonder if they'd accept a pull request to generalize it? https://github.com/w3c/cg-monitor/blob/master/monitor.js#L113
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aaronpk looks like github activity can be tracked across any org
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aaronpk mail is also specifically w3.org mailing lists https://github.com/w3c/cg-monitor/blob/master/monitor.js#L58
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[tantek] right, I think first step would be to create a CG with links to external resources for each of those, i.e. in addition to the GH repos
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[tantek] and then file issues / pull requests on the monitor to generalize
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[tantek] my understanding is yes they'd be open to pull requests to generalize
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[tantek] I think it would be useful to make it clear how much IndieWeb activity has continued even after the closure of the Social Web WG
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aaronpk makes me wonder if we could show little activity graphs like that on our own wiki too :)
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[tantek] yeah!
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[tantek] hmmm who else here participated in W3C or wants to?
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[tantek] [ben_thatmustbe] [benatwork] [KevinMarks] who else am I missing?
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[schmarty] i have not participated but as a reader of specs i have been tempted!
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[tantek] awesome [schmarty]! would be great to have your thoughts on proposing a CG ^^^
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[schmarty] i think the benefits could outweigh the risks and effort 😅
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[jgmac1106] I do a few CG from lurking to participating. Got a publication out of a cred web CG. Yeah marty seems like a low bar. Thanks for volunteering. Will sign up once you create it
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[KevinMarks] that does sound like a good idea, especially if we can bring some of the people from the old SocialWG along
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GWG I'd like to be of service
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[kimberlyhirsh] I'd definitely lurk and maybe participate.
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Zegnat As [schmarty] said, it seems like we only stand to gain? Are there any limitations that would be imposed on us because of a CG existing?
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Zegnat For extra credence to specs and surfacing amongst other W3C CG, seems like a good idea, [tantek]! Have no previously done anything with W3C, but I'd be up to invest some time into a CG.
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[tantek] thanks folk
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[tantek] Well that's more than 6 (which I think is the minimum to start a CG)
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[tantek] I think we can put it as a goal for the IndieWeb CG to surface and connect existing active work in the IndieWeb community, rather than trying to create a new venue for any other reason
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Zegnat Does work being done under the CG banner affect licensing in any way, [tantek]?
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Zegnat That is the only thing I can imagine we need to keep an eye on
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aaronpk also can we continue to use our own code of conduct?
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boffosocko.com edited /editor (+1052) "examples: micropub clients, Hemmingway app, ProseMirror, iA Writer, etc. surely there are more examples, particularly for UI examples for improving posting interfaces." (view diff)
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[tantek] Zegnat, since we produce & publish our own specs on spec.indieweb.og, no licensing of specs should not be affected. If we were trying to produce an official CG "report", that may need to be specifically licensed.
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[tantek] Though either way, if we publish something with a more liberal (e.g. CC0) license, and the "POSSE" it to the CG under a more restrictive license while linking to the original permalink, I don't see a problem with that (from my experiences with standards licensing, IANAL, etc.)
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[tantek] aaonpk, my guess is that yes in our "forums" (chat, wiki) which are not W3C, we can use our own.
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[tantek] That being said, the W3C CEPC (their code of conduct, seems decent (I recently reviewed it and got a couple of changes made), and it wouldn't be bad to accept it as well.
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Zegnat Goodie. That was the only thing I could think of. To make sure W3C does not say that anything produced under the CG banner needs their licence. Because then you will have to show that when we work on a spec it is done by the same people but not under CG banner, yadda-yadda-yadda. Only headache point I could see happening.
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[tantek] ooh one thing we could do is have a mailing list and have the newsletter automatically go there too
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aaronpk oh yeah nice
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[tantek] and note that the mailing list is for announcements only, not discussions.
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[tantek] discussion happen in the IndieWeb chat
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[tantek] might be kinda cool to have an announcement-only mailing list for POSSEing IndieWeb related announcements to
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[tantek] this makes me wonder if we should have an explicit "Announcements" section in the Newsletter
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aaronpk i was going to suggest POSSEing indienews posts to the mailing list, but the newsletter effectively does that too
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[tantek] hmm, indienews posts feel a bit context-dependent and sometimes a bit noisy to merit their own posts on a mailing list out of context of the community
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[tantek] feels a bit weird to have people's random blog posts go to an "announcements" list
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aaronpk yeah i like the idea that they're included in the newsletter instead
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[tantek] I think that's appropriately skimmable
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[tantek] I do think there are some announcements that would be worth broadcasting in their own right, like (major?) IndieWeb project/service updates/launches
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aaronpk in that case, what would that look like in our newsletter?
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aaronpk maybe a tag on indienews? a new instance of indienews for announcements?
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[tantek] a tag might work
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[tantek] though I could see it being too easily mistakenly abused
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[tantek] e.g. "everything is an announcement! yay!"
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aaronpk right that was my next question, who decides what gets that tag
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Loqi woot
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[tantek] feels like something that may require deliberate curation
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[tantek] which we shouldn't be totally shy about. Wikipedia does that for their daily home page updates
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aaronpk kind of like !rt for tweets here
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[tantek] ooh that could work!
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loqi.me created /RSS-Bridge (+173) "prompted by Zegnat and dfn added by Zegnat" (view diff)
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Zegnat RSS-Bridge << [https://github.com/RSS-Bridge/rss-bridge/wiki/Public-hosts List of public instances]
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Loqi ok, I added "[https://github.com/RSS-Bridge/rss-bridge/wiki/Public-hosts List of public instances]" to a brand new "See Also" section of /RSS-Bridge https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=71481&oldid=71480
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loqi.me edited /RSS-Bridge (+105) "Zegnat added "[https://github.com/RSS-Bridge/rss-bridge/wiki/Public-hosts List of public instances]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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Zegnat What is RSS Bridge?
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Loqi RSS-Bridge is a project that strives to give sites feeds even if they do not offer those themselves https://indieweb.org/RSS-Bridge
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Zegnat What was the trigger to get Loqi to link the dfn? Clearly I am doing it wrong as I have to manually fix it :/
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "trigger to get Loqi to link the dfn" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "trigger to get Loqi to link the dfn is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] Loqi never did that, pretty sure sknebel's bot did that
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aaronpk Oh yea Kaja would go back and clean it up
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aaronpk dunno what I'd want the syntax in chat to look like for that
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[tantek] Hey Saturday was the 10 year anniversary of FSWS2010! Where aaronpk and I pretty much afterwards were like we need to organize something more around people actually using their sites rather than talking about it: https://indieweb.org/Federated_Social_Web_Summit#Portland_2010
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aaronpk oh!
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aaronpk wow
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aaronpk in 2010, I did not expect that we'd be still hosting indiewebcamps every year, as well as did not expect what would have been the 10th annual event to be cancelled due to a global pandemic
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[tantek] that may be worth a blog post aaronpk
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[tantek] I'll see if I can come up with something myself
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[tantek] especially documenting what happened with all the projects listed / participating
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tantek.com created /builders (+21) "not sure where this redirect went? or was it always red?" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /builder (+21) "redirect, should have had this in 2011!" (view diff)
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[manton] Speaking of FSWS 2010… I mention it in my book draft, and I’ve been meaning to ask you [tantek] and [aaronpk] about something I wrote down like 2 years ago. I can no longer find it in my notes so I’m starting to question if I had it right. 🙂 Specifically it’s this “last day” line:
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[manton] > But Tantek Çelik and Aaron Parecki felt the event was too focused on _platforms_ interoperating, and not enough on _personal_ web sites being able to participate in social networks. The evening of the last day of the conference, they talked about how they could refocus the conversation around owning your own data.
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[manton] I can post the full chapter draft later, but that’s the part that sticks out to me as needing a fact-check if y’all have time.
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[tantek] 100%. We might not have called them "platforms" per se, we might have called them "big companies" or "social networks" or "oligopolies"
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[manton] Thanks!
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[tantek] [manton] that sounds like something from our interview that must have been 2 years ago
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aaronpk tbh i don't remember the specific time that conversation happened, but evening of the last day sounds very likely
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[manton] Cool, thanks. Yeah, I don’t think in the interview y’all specifically said that, but maybe I had it in my head from a related conversation.
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[tantek] doing all this digging has uncovered another gem of a quote "turned the blogosphere into a giant decentralized social network" <-- guess the year
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[manton] Ooo, that is good.
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[manton] My guess: 2008, but I could be off by a few years on either side.
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[tantek] 2005! https://web.archive.org/web/20050325072926/http://2005.sxsw.com/interactive/conference/panels/?action=show&id=IAP0027
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[manton] SXSW! I was probably at that one too.
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[tantek] from 10 years ago, 2 days before FSWS: https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/opinion/17herbert.html
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[tantek] Twitter << Criticism: early acknowledgment of distraction problems: 2010-07-16 NYT: [https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/opinion/17herbert.html Tweet Less, Kiss More]
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Loqi ok, I added "Criticism: early acknowledgment of distraction problems: 2010-07-16 NYT: [https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/17/opinion/17herbert.html Tweet Less, Kiss More]" to the "See Also" section of /Twitter https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=71486&oldid=70734
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sknebel hmm, I thought I added the "url at the end" of the dfn form to Kaja at some point. or I found a counterexample where it caused problems...
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tonyburns.net created /Template:craftyphotons (+131) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">{{sparkline| https://s.gravatar.com/avatar/3499f0da01e50fbc716d431fda9e4478}} [[User:Tonyburns.net|tb]]</span>"" (view diff)
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tonyburns.net edited /Template:craftyphotons (+11) (view diff)
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[tantek] sknebel the one I remember was "x is URL rest-of-definition"
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[tantek] that Kaja supported (or used to?) auto-linking the term with that URL
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sknebel yes. "thing is <url>, a service for ordering cat pictures"