#meta 2021-02-21

2021-02-21 UTC
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@Cambridgeport90 ↩️ Haha. You're right. But noBut, just for argument's sake, why not look at a server that actually does federate, if you're looking for a place with less rules than Twitter? just a thought. I like http://Indieweb.social. (twitter.com/_/status/1363312469427580930)
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@thejayeless Blogged about how I integrated Webmentions into my Hugo static site: https://www.jayeless.net/2021/02/integrating-webmentions-into-hugo.html #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1363337480414486529)
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tantek.com created /Template:ohhelloana (+7) "twitter username" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /life_happens (+301) "Posts About section" (view diff)
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petermolnar https://snikket.org/blog/products-vs-protocols/ - it could be worth "translating" this into indieweb in terms of ecosystem vs products
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@kevinmarks ↩️ I think @jtemperton is wrong to follow this with: “For years it has been clear that the web, which has been shaped in Facebook and Google’s image, is in no way open.” The web is still open, and we can step back from the ad frenzy part of it, which we do at http://indieweb.org (twitter.com/_/status/1363486738363080706)
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[KevinMarks] First half of that, for reference https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1363485430742732802?s=20
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@kevinmarks “…almost all information in the world is disseminated by two gigantic advertising companies that are better at making an ad for buttless pyjamas stalk you around the internet than they are at stopping an attack on the US Capitol or preventing genocide.” https://www.wired.co.uk/article/facebook-australia-rupert-murdoch (twitter.com/_/status/1363485430742732802)
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@jvantill ↩️ Interesting. Question: what is the business model for @indieweb ? How do you pay the bills? Sure, everybody will maintain their own blog and handle mail, but still there are shared&common tasks and functions/systems. (twitter.com/_/status/1363490361855922178)
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@jvantill @marleenstikker Wat is jouw indruk van http://IndieWeb.org ? Ze hebben een NL chapter. Kan ik van FB en Whatsapp af? (twitter.com/_/status/1363492383892140034)
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Saphire Uhh. Business model?
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aaronpk heh
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@petermolnar ↩️ There isn't much shared & common - that's part of the essence of it. Whatever small is there is run by volunteers, either free as in beer, or on donations. (twitter.com/_/status/1363510357638144003)
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petermolnar I was tempted to respond with a screenshot from David Tennant-era Doctor Who labelled as "Fun"
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aaronpk I like how some people are like "but it costs money to have a domain" and then others like "but what's the business model"
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petermolnar I'm finding it incredibly dispirited that seemingly many people have trouble imaging doing/running something for the fun, without ever thinking of a business model around it.
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@kevinmarks ↩️ You can trade off your own work for paid services too http://micro.blog will run the backend for you, for example (twitter.com/_/status/1363520631917191168)
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jbove There are some "corner stone" services I depend upon, like webmentions.io and all of Aaron's other servers actually. Hoping my contribution on OpenCollective helps to keep those going.
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jbove What I wonder about is what will the current budget available on OpenCollective be used for? It's a nice amount of money from a very generous anonymous person who clearly believes in the value of the Indieweb.
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@frankmeeuwsen ↩️ Je bent meer dan welkom op het indieweb Jaap! ;-) https://diggingthedigital.com/indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1363524010869485569)
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jitterbug.cc created /User:Jitterbug.cc (+55) "Created page with "Web location of Nicolas Sivridis [https://jitterbug.cc]"" (view diff)
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@JulianKlode ↩️ On the other side of the spectrum, there's https://indieweb.org/comments and I think there's a hosted version you can point your server at to receive WebMentions and then you can render them on the blog using JavaScript. (twitter.com/_/status/1363537132594335744)
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jacky yeahh
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tantek.com edited /spam (+164) "add Related Sessions / What can Webmention learn from Email (ht petermolnar), de-dupe See Also sections" (view diff)
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[tantek] which part jacky? 😂
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[tantek] aaronpk, I'm this | | close to documenting the "but it costs money to have a domain" as concern-trolling. It's a nonsense isolated argument when everyone making that argument has spent 100x on their hardware (and annual cell service!) that they are using to make the argument.
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[tantek] aaronpk, similarly I'm this | | tempted to add "but what's the business model" to the FAQ with: Nope, no business model here, please go find something else to exploit you capitalist.
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[tantek] (of course linking to /business_model in the answer)
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[tantek] There's really no reason to give these people time other than replying to them with an FAQ link IMO
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[tantek] curious how others would feel about those answers
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[tantek] (aside, also tempted to create a separate page for such bad faith questions, e.g. "rude FAQ", to keep them out of the flow of anyone going to FAQ to actually learn)
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[tantek] related: https://scottberkun.com/2007/how-to-write-a-rude-qa/
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aaronpk the other part of the "but it costs money to have a domain" whining is that yes everything costs money and if it doesn't, then someone else is paying on your behalf, and very likely getting something out of it that benefits them in some way, e.g. ads
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[tantek] aaronpk, I mean, there's free bathrooms and water fountains on the streets of portland 🙂
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aaronpk someone's paying for those too :)
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[tantek] (all to say, I do believe in universal basic services, water & toilets being among the most basic, and on up to housing & healthcare)
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[tantek] sure, and you can see how that could be extrapolated to: free urban wifi, and then civic domains
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[tantek] so there's a potential path to get there, without making people be the product to be exploited
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[fluffy] Yeah I’m not a fan of the “it costs money to have a domain” argument. *however* I am still opposed to the idea of domain ownership being part of indieweb presence, because there’s other barriers to entry other than just money, such as technical skill.
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[fluffy] and maintenance of a domain ownership is also something that’s very easy for non-technical users to run afoul of
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[fluffy] like, look at how often domains get hijacked via scams or basic misconfiguration, not to mention it’s pretty tricky to understand the fiddly bits of domain registration, DNS hosting, web hosting, etc.
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[fluffy] and the turnkey platforms that try to integrate that stuff together tend not to be very indieweb-friendly
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[fluffy] but yeah things like freenom exist, and there at least used to be a lot of free second-level domain providers like ml.org and ath.cx although those seem to have all been consumed by capitalism, sigh.
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[fluffy] OTOH a great thing about indieweb is that those of us who do have the technical acumen could just, you know, provide subdomains to our friends for free, too
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petermolnar > I am still opposed to the idea of domain ownership being part of indieweb presence, because there’s other barriers to entry other than just money, such as technical skill. - I... I like that there's a barrier. When it's too easy (easy != open) it seems to attract a LOT of bad behaviour. See social media.
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[fluffy] This feels like a discussion for #indieweb and we should move it there.
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[chrisaldrich] color_palette << https://coolors.co/, a color palette generator with options for [[accessibility]] including alternates for various versions of colorblindness as well as the ability to generate palettes based on uploaded photos
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Loqi ok, I added "https://coolors.co/, a color palette generator with options for [[accessibility]] including alternates for various versions of colorblindness as well as the ability to generate palettes based on uploaded photos" to the "See Also" section of /color_palette https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=74674&oldid=71831
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tantek.com edited /to-do (+152) "add a couple of draft rude FAQs for a possible new page" (view diff)
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[tantek] This feels ironically centralized (in terms of authority) https://getdweb.net/start-a-dweb-node/
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[tantek] That being said, there are some good aspects of "how to" in there that could be re-used to make it easier / more obvious how to start a Homebrew Website Club or IndieWeb meetup in your city
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tantek.com edited /to-do (+253) "more on why complaining about paying for domains is naive or in bad faith" (view diff)
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petermolnar the whole dweb thing is dripping with BS in my read
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