#meta 2021-09-27

2021-09-27 UTC
hans1963[d] and Seirdy joined the channel
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david.shanske.com edited /2021/Pop-ups/Gardens_and_Streams_II (+548) "/* Details */" (view diff)
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GWG https://indieweb.org/2021/Pop-ups/Gardens_and_Streams_II - All videos now linked
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aaronpk GWG++
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Loqi GWG has 22 karma in this channel over the last year (97 in all channels)
P1000[d], V1, Nezteb9000[d], corenominal[d], indieweb-irc-bri, aaronpk[d], hoenir, nolith, willnorris, vilhalmer, Zegnat and petermolnar joined the channel
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@kevinmarks ↩️ microdata never really took off, as it was spec-first, not implementation driven. Microformats have iterated and are used by indieweb, mastodon etc and still indexed by Google. (twitter.com/_/status/1442424150237188100)
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@orta I’m also on team “most web3 people are grifting” same applies to anything blockchain tho. IMO, the people who seem to be doing the real interesting work on what could be a next generation of the web are: - https://indieweb.org - https://inrupt.com/solid/ (twitter.com/_/status/1442427241808400384)
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@JamieTanna ↩️ Have you looked into #IndieAuth (https://indieauth.net/) it's an open standard from the #IndieWeb community and allows folks to log in via their personal website - it's built on top of OAuth2 so is fairly straightforward to add support for! (https://www.jvt.me/mf2/2021/09/qiwuz/) (twitter.com/_/status/1442445429594001408)
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@capjamesg ↩️ I am excited by services like http://micro.blog that build upon IndieWeb technologies and abstract the technicalities away. I would love to see more user-facing services that embrace standards like Webmention. (twitter.com/_/status/1442477133025079297)
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@sebastiangreger It's been well over a decade since I last watched this classic, but since it surfaced at last weekend's #IndieWeb pop-up on "Gardens and Streams": time for a rewatch https://sebastiangreger.net/2021/09/douglas-adams-hyperland (twitter.com/_/status/1442477405122310144)
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@voxpelli ↩️ In other words: The aim we should have is to replace the commercialized corporate Web 3.0 with a democratized collaborative Web 4.0, like Web 2.0 did for Web 1.0 And to do that: We have eg @indiewebcamp / https://indieweb.org/ (twitter.com/_/status/1442540087510589443)
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[schmarty] 😁
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voxpelli I may not be very active here right now, but whenever I can use the IndieWeb as a great example of where we should be heading, then I do 😏
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@capjamesg ↩️ I am not sure how I feel about the semantics of “web 3.0.” The label, like you said, implies what someone says is 3.0 must happen. That is not the case. (twitter.com/_/status/1442546808207589376)
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@capjamesg ↩️ I liked what you said about iterative development. The web has come a long way over the last few decades but the changes have been incremental. (twitter.com/_/status/1442546604469334016)
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sknebel https://twitter.com/SarahJamieLewis/status/1442546619996467203
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@SarahJamieLewis We are at least on Web 7.0 by now and it is all still terrible. (twitter.com/_/status/1442546619996467203)
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aaronpk good thread
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@_Mab_ ↩️ I believe that you are right, and I think that one key feature of the current Web 3.0 is that it is primarily regulated by law, where 1.0 and 2.0 was regulated by code. Not sure how to get away from that development though. Most likely we'll have to just fight for better laws (twitter.com/_/status/1442559455099592704)
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@voxpelli ↩️ I think the current regulation is largely needed because of the centralization into these giants, which have necessitated legislation and rules out of ethical, democratic and business/competition reasons. In a network of smaller actors many laws would have had to look different (twitter.com/_/status/1442560508968595458)
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[tantek] huh? I think we may need more laws, not fewer, to regulate and break-up the silos / cryptocults
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[tantek] via sknebel tweet link, aaronpk this is also a good thread: https://twitter.com/SarahJamieLewis/status/1071554966802784256
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@SarahJamieLewis The thing you are supposed to be decentralizing is power. (twitter.com/_/status/1071554966802784256)
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loqi.me created /decentralize (+26) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /decentralizing (+26) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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@_Mab_ ↩️ I agree, but now we are where we are, and we can't just wish the legislation away. So any change of how the internet work need to be done in tandem between law and code. (twitter.com/_/status/1442581109473259527)
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[tantek] [KevinMarks], sknebel, do you know where to find a reference to the "original" of this image? I'd like to include it somewhere on the /web3 page: https://twitter.com/SarahJamieLewis/status/1442546329037672448
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@SarahJamieLewis Why Web 3.0 Matters (2007) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAT0DC0VkAEpG8t.jpg (twitter.com/_/status/1442546329037672448)
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@voxpelli ↩️ Totally agree, and we need to start as soon as possible as to not make the laws such that only giants can survive online (eg. GDPR is a bit like that, the giants have an easy time navigating it with their lawyers, but smaller actors: not so much) (twitter.com/_/status/1442583014672777220)
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capjamesg[d] [tanrek] there is a citation at the bottom of the image.
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capjamesg[d] But there isn’t an exact URL 😦
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[KevinMarks] https://novaspivack.typepad.com/nova_spivacks_weblog/2007/02/steps_towards_a.html
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[KevinMarks] Via http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/10/web-30-semantic-web-web-20.html
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[tantek] ooh much higher resolution!
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[tantek] also http://www.novaspivack.com/technology/how-the-webos-evolves though without https
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[KevinMarks] Given semver, web 3 is an intent to break compatibility
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] separately, for how many years did people blog about "microcontent" (as if it were a thing) before Twitter launched? Looks like 2003-2006? http://www.novaspivack.com/?s=microcontent
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tantek.com edited /Web_3.0 (+539) "/* Web 3.0 as Semantic Web */ add graph showing Web 3 as Semantic Web" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Web_3.0 (+7) "TOC earlier" (view diff)
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snarfed.org created /text/mf2+html (+395) "prompted by [tantek]" (view diff)
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@mxdietrich Created an article which explains how i am constantly tracking my position every second and how i am visualizing the collected data. https://mxd.codes/articles/how-i-track-my-location-and-display-the-data-on-my-website #QuantifiedSelf #IndieWeb #webmapping (twitter.com/_/status/1442601044471549954)
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tantek.com edited /text/mf2+html (+50) "slight rewording of second sentence" (view diff)
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@voxpelli ↩️ Better to name things for what they are rather than trying to make it into something else through deceptive names like "web 3.0". I mean, eg. the IndieWeb could also have called itself "web 3.0", I guess Mastodon could as well. There truly must be a better name? (twitter.com/_/status/1442601857105346560)
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[tantek] this feels like a meme opportunity
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[tantek] Remember when Web 2.0 was a conference? O'Reilly remembers
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aaronpk is it just me or has there been a lot more discussion about web 3 in the last week or so
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aaronpk s/discussion/hype
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@mxdietrich Created an article which explains how i am constantly tracking my position every second and how i am visualizing the collected data. https://mxd.codes/articles/constant-location-tracking-with-owntracks-strapi-and-visualizing-data-with-deckgl #QuantifiedSelf #OwnTracks #DeckGL #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1442609803126194179)
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[tantek] aaronpk, this provides some context. maybe recent increase but not to any "new levels": https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?geo=US&q=web3,web2,Web%202.0,Web%203.0
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loqi.me edited /Web_3.0 (+407) "[tantek] added "https://twitter.com/buzz/status/1442547588184510468" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Web_3.0 (+158) "[tantek] added "Criticism: https://twitter.com/search?q=web3%20(unethical%20OR%20fraud%20OR%20fraudulent%20OR%20grift%20OR%20ponzi)&src=typed_query&f=live" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Web_3.0 (+267) "aaronpk added "https://twitter.com/eleven_ty/status/1442566705360691201" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk++ nice find
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Loqi aaronpk has 17 karma in this channel over the last year (105 in all channels)
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voxpelli My Twitter is basically 50% web3 discussions today, not sure what triggered it
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aaronpk same
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voxpelli And I still don’t really know what it actually refers to
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voxpelli wants the RDF Web 3.0 back, at least that was easy to grasp what it referred to
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[tantek] wow I hadn't checked my twitter home page and in a while, and you're not wrong
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voxpelli Maybe triggered by this tweet? https://twitter.com/cdixon/status/1442201621266534402?s=20
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@cdixon Why Web 3 matters 🧵 (twitter.com/_/status/1442201621266534402)
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[tantek] eh it's only like 10% of my home page stream
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[tantek] possibly useful for spam-filtering / troll-blocking? https://twitter.com/DanRather/status/1442303720914522115 😉
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@DanRather I have noticed that many who troll on Twitter use “your” instead of “you’re.” Just an observation. Nothing more. (twitter.com/_/status/1442303720914522115)
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voxpelli The Web 1.0 and Web 2.0 descriptions from that thread is so at odds with the widely accepted ones that it’s crazy
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voxpelli what is Web 2.0?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "Web 2.0" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "Web 2.0 is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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tantek.com edited /Web_3.0 (+15) "+pyramid" (view diff)
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[tantek] aaronpk, I wonder if we could use IndieWebCamp twitter to tweet out new pages with "stable" definitions
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[tantek] they're infrequent enough that it could be useful
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[tantek] especially if it attracts folks to the community who have expertise or an interest in that particular topic
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[tantek] ideally with hashtags too (should hashtags be part of definitions? e.g. in the AKA?)
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tantek.com edited /Web_3.0 (+23) "AKA hashtag web3 dfn, let's see if this helps/works" (view diff)
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[tantek] something like that ^
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voxpelli Would like that
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voxpelli Good idea
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voxpelli But before tweeting anything about web 3, a definition of web 2 should probably be added as well
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voxpelli As the perception in the web 3 crowd around what web 2 was seems widely off
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aaronpk oh neat idea
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aaronpk what criteria would we use to pick pages?
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[tantek] newly created, like the newsletter does
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aaronpk could trickle out the newsletter new pages over the course of the next week maybe?