#meta 2021-12-18
2021-12-18 UTC
# 
[tantek]1 that's great to hear, and worth mentioning on the NextJS page (capjamesg[d])
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tracydurnell[d] I'd echo the suggestion to spruce up the readability of the wiki a bit
# tracydurnell[d] Also the homepage top bar displays poorly on mobile
# tracydurnell[d] Looks like that in duckduckgo and google browsers on my phone
# tracydurnell[d] Firefox puts the search bar in the right spot but has the stacking issue on the left
# tracydurnell[d] (I don't know how to fix it though 😅)
# [tantek]1 that's going to take some CSS hackery
# [tantek]1 to-do << Fix mobile display issues on the home page, see screnshot: https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2021-12-18#t1639789551480000
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Loqi ok, I added "Fix mobile display issues on the home page, see screnshot: https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2021-12-18#t1639789551480000" to the "See Also" section of /to-do https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78440&oldid=78316
# [tantek]1 tracydurnell[d], tbh "spruce up the readability of the wiki" is an evergreen task for every wiki I've seen
# [tantek]1 even every non-trivial content site IMO
# tracydurnell[d] Haha totally
# tracydurnell[d] I meant specifically the suggestions about tweaking the css
# [tantek]1 re: mobile display issues, yeah that's a mess. do you have suggestions for how it should/could look? i.e. if you "only" moved things around / resized to "fit"
# tracydurnell[d] I'd make the white part taller, put the discover and events to the right side by the logo, and have search underneath
# [tantek]1 would be easier to "fix it" (in code) knowing what a "good" version would look like (like a mockup)
# [tantek]1 yes that makes sense
# tracydurnell[d] I suspect though that main page button might not be movable
# tracydurnell[d] If it wasn't might need to move logo to center or something
# [tantek]1 that "main page" button shouldn't even be showing (it doesn't on desktop)
# tracydurnell[d] Ah, so maybe that could go away
# tracydurnell[d] (btw thanks for pointing out that page, hadn't seen it)
# [tantek]1 yeah that is super weird, it shows up on laptop if you narrow the window enough. there's no reason for that
# tracydurnell[d] Would adding a mockup to that page be the best spot?
# tracydurnell[d] (while we're changing the top bar I'd also vote to add a link to an "about" kind of page or principles or something 😉)
# [tantek]1 tracydurnell[d] both "about kind of page" and "principles" are in the sidebar already, along with a lot of other links that have been oft requested by folks as "commonly useful". Is there a specific subset of those that you think should be on the top bar?
# tracydurnell[d] When I go to a new organization website I like to check out the about or mission page to get a sense of who they are and what they're about
# tracydurnell[d] I thought that might also be worthwhile to have from the homepage nav
# tracydurnell[d] In case people don't realize they need to go into the wiki to see the sidebar
# tracydurnell[d] But that may not be what others look at 😉🤷♀️
# tracydurnell[d] We were chatting a couple weeks back (?) about the getting started being mostly a how to
# tracydurnell[d] (don't remember who I was talking to 😅)
# tracydurnell[d] But that some people may need an inbetween step from the homepage to "I'm in! What exactly do I do?"
# tracydurnell[d] Which could be the why page maybe?
# tracydurnell[d] tantek++ way to hop right on that 😀
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Common.css (+20) "always hide the "Main Page" button on the home page" (view diff)
# [tantek]1 thanks yeah that was an obvious eyesore to fix
# [tantek]1 MediaWiki markup is so bulky
# [tantek]1 tracydurnell[d], "what they're about" is / should be already handled by the home page
# [tantek]1 good point about "who they are"
# [tantek]1 who is the indieweb
# [tantek]1 what is an about page
# Loqi "About" is a commonly occurring page or section on a site that provides an introduction, overview, or summary of the site https://indieweb.org/about_page
# tracydurnell[d] I am Spartacus 😉
# tracydurnell[d] Yeah homepage does cover the what
# tantek.com edited /about (+15) "dfn expectation of about page having some description of who is behind the site" (view diff)
# [tantek]1 what is an about page
# Loqi "About" is a commonly occurring page or section on a site that describes who is behind the site and a summary or the purpose of the site https://indieweb.org/about_page
# [tantek]1 tracydurnell[d], I don't think we have an "about" page that fits the description you mention and we could definitely use one that was more dedicated to the "who they are" part to better humanize the community to newcomers
# [tantek]1 we have the content, lots of pix from HWC IWC etc.
# tracydurnell[d] I feel like that could be helpful
# tracydurnell[d] Agreed!
# [tantek]1 we have some rough lists of participants in /chat-names
# [tantek]1 I think the challenge is that it needs to be recent / relevant
# tracydurnell[d] When I first came across the wiki I recall wandering around a bit trying to figure out if this was like an "official" / verified thing and whether what I had counted
# [tantek]1 those are two different questions!
# tracydurnell[d] Yeah, fair point
# [tantek]1 the first one seems on topic for an about page
# tracydurnell[d] Makes sense
# [tantek]1 we also have the /organizers page which has some of the "who are the people that (currently) run this thing"
# [tantek]1 I feel like we have 80-90% of the content that would make a good "about" page for IndieWeb, and that it's mostly a "design challenge" to come up with the specific subset of that content and a layout for it that communicates the sense of who is the community
# tracydurnell[d] I agree with your point about making sure it's up to date so makes sense to link to those other pages rather than listing anyone specifically on the about page
# [tantek]1 speaking of, we also some bits at /community
# tracydurnell[d] Is that something to take a first crack at on a new wiki page?
# [tantek]1 yes! and have you found examples of community sites with good "about" pages like that that we could draw inspiration from?
# tracydurnell[d] Haha I've seen both good and bad 😉
# tracydurnell[d] I'll look back at some pages I'm thinking of to see if they'd be a good template
# [tantek]1 we could even name it something like "who we are" to communicate more clearly that it's not just a generic "about" page but rather, can answer that question
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# tracydurnell[d] Would also align with having what and why pages
# [tantek]1 what is who
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "who" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "who is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# tracydurnell[d] Seems appropriate to have who then 😉
# [tantek]1 who is the IndieWeb? We are community based on shared [[principles]], people with personal websites using them to own our identity, content, and interactions with each other online, actively collaborating & helping each other in online [[discuss]]ions & [https://events.indieweb.org/ regular events], to both advance the state of the art, and provide onramps for people of all levels to join.
# [tantek]1 what is who?
# Loqi who is the IndieWeb? https://indieweb.org/who
# tracydurnell[d] like the definition 👍
# tracydurnell[d] does it need to be one sentence or could it be split in two?
# [tantek]1 ^ tracydurnell[d] is that enough of a starting point for you to work on a "proper" about page?
# tracydurnell[d] yeah!
# [tantek]1 please feel free to copy edit!
# tracydurnell[d] ok, cool! I'm going to see if I can dig up the sites I'm thinking of 😄
# [tantek]1 I put the span p-summary thing around it so you can re-sentence it however it makes sense!
# [tantek]1 what is who we are
# Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "who we are" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "who we are is ____", a sentence describing the term)
# Loqi ok, I added "Goal: a page we can link to from the top bar (including the [[Main_Page|home page]]) that newcomers would click to find out more about the people behind the site" to the "See Also" section of /who https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78448&oldid=78447
# [tantek]1 who << Goal: a page we can link to from the top bar (including the [[Main_Page|home page]]) that newcomers would click to find out more about the people behind the site
# [tantek]1 who << Possible link text for linking to this page: "who we are"
# Loqi ok, I added "Possible link text for linking to this page: "who we are"" to the "See Also" section of /who https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78449&oldid=78448
# [tantek]1 who << Goal: answer questions or provide information that helps newcomers determine "if this is an official / verified thing" or how "official" vs informal is this
# Loqi ok, I added "Goal: answer questions or provide information that helps newcomers determine "if this is an official / verified thing" or how "official" vs informal is this" to the "See Also" section of /who https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78450&oldid=78449
# [tantek]1 who << Highlight regular & recent [[organizers]] by name (& in-context photo if possible), e.g. from past 2-3 years of [[HWC]] and [[IWC]] events
# Loqi ok, I added "Highlight regular & recent [[organizers]] by name (& in-context photo if possible), e.g. from past 2-3 years of [[HWC]] and [[IWC]] events" to the "See Also" section of /who https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78451&oldid=78450
# [tantek]1 who << Highlight [[organizers]] who recently/regularly help out in chat, especially with newcomers
# Loqi ok, I added "Highlight [[organizers]] who recently/regularly help out in chat, especially with newcomers" to the "See Also" section of /who https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78452&oldid=78451
# [tantek]1 who << ^ then link to [[chat-names]] for the comprehensive list of who participants who have chosen to add themselves to that list
# Loqi ok, I added "^ then link to [[chat-names]] for the comprehensive list of who participants who have chosen to add themselves to that list" to the "See Also" section of /who https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78453&oldid=78452
# [tantek]1 ^ tracydurnell[d] that's my braindump of "who" related content-sources for now, I’ll leave it to you to come up with some clever curation & layout 🙂
# tracydurnell[d] cool, thank you!
# tracydurnell[d] I'm doing some sleuthing 👍
# [tantek]1 awesome 🙂
# [tantek]1 I like this, our community is one of our biggest strengths and we've neglected to highlight it and put it right up front for newcomers to discover and feel welcomed
# tracydurnell[d] totally! Might also help people feel more comfortable joining the chat if they can see it's real people 🙂
# [tantek]1 100% agreed with that. the /chat-names page helps with that since it allows you to associate an icon with your chat name which then shows up in Slack and the chat archives
# [tantek]1 except now I'm seeing that you're in /chat-names with an icon however it's not showing up in Slack! but your icon is showing up in the chat archives!
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# [tantek]1 aaronpk ^ any idea why tracydurnell's /chat-names icon shows up in chat.indieweb.org/meta but not in Slack?
# [tantek]1 also, any chance of supporting fuzzy matching on Slack handles with extra 1,2 after them similar to IRC handles with _ or __ after them? e.g. "[tantek]1"
# [tantek]1 ^ in the chat archives in particular
# tracydurnell[d] I'm on discord, maybe that's messing it up?
# tracydurnell[d] my icon shows up on discord
# tracydurnell[d] actually I was wondering why I have a picture and most people have cute cats 😂 maybe those are people using other platforms?
# [tantek]1 And your icon shows up in the chat archives too! That's the real test :)
# tracydurnell[d] that's good at least!
# [tantek]1 tracydurnell[d] WDYT of some sort of map, maybe abstract not 1:1, as a way of presenting icons/thumbnails of the above noted “active” folks/organizers ?
# tracydurnell[d] to show that people are from all over?
# tracydurnell[d] could be cool
# tracydurnell[d] are you thinking a dynamic map, or an image that we create in photoshop and upload?
# tracydurnell[d] I can help with second but no idea how to do first 😉
# tracydurnell[d] or, a map of past IWC locations?
# tracydurnell[d] and/or "active" HWC locations (expected to return post pandemic)
# tracydurnell[d] as a way to show where the community interacts?
# tracydurnell[d] (thinking somewhat comparable to "chapters" which are relatively common for big non-profit orgs)
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tracydurnell.com edited /who (+1196) "add framework of page and brief starter text, add to "see also"" (view diff)
# tracydurnell.com edited /who (+392) "add mission, split definition in two, add link to sponsorship, add to values" (view diff)
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# tracydurnell.com edited /who (+206) "/* Who We Are */ add 'who's part of the indieweb' links" (view diff)
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# tracydurnell.com edited /who (+429) "/* Who We Are */ add info about joining the indieweb, add types of events" (view diff)
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@whitingdev so...
1) make guest/out-of-network collaboration easier (think git-mail vs github pull requests, or indieweb's webmention)
2) make a crawler/search that removes the network-effect advantage and allows searchable federated gitea/gitlab instances (twitter.com/_/status/1472075210077585415)
# tracydurnell[d] @tantek a few examples of about pages I liked:
# tracydurnell[d] https://buynothingproject.org/about - this one's pretty simple but community-based so somewhat comparable
# [tantek]1 thanks tracydurnell[d]! captured ^ 🙂
# [tantek]1 and re: map, "image that we create in photoshop and upload" would be great, even if we only updated it once a year that would be fine
# [tantek]1 and yes, "to show that people are from all over"
# [tantek]1 more focused on the people than the specific "events", since locations for events didn't mean much the past two years
# tracydurnell[d] true that
# tracydurnell[d] I'd be happy to put something together - where should I find the current organizers to include?
# [tantek]1 see that's the challenge, keeping such a list would quickly get out of date, and risks both fomo and hurt feelings from being dropped
# [tantek]1 so it has to be dynamic based on actual events held that had other participants!
# tracydurnell[d] Good point
# [tantek]1 which doesn't mean *actually* dynamic, but rather, once a year, looking back a year and seeing who actually ran an event and posted photos from it with other people
# tracydurnell[d] Seems like a fair compromise
# [tantek]1 also if you did come up with a design that looked modern / cellular like a hexagon map, I could write code to generate it
# tracydurnell[d] Ooh ok
# tracydurnell[d] Will think about it tomorrow
# [tantek]1 tracydurnell[d] just to give an idea of hexagon cellular like maps: https://indieweb.org/maps#US_states_and_CA_counties
# [tantek]1 though we'd need to come up with something for Europe
# [tantek]1 this is one attempt, thought I think we could go coarser: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/kjwmo1/i_attempted_to_draw_europe_with_1_hexagon/
# [tantek]1 ooh here's a coarser one: https://www.maartenlambrechts.com/2017/05/03/the-eurosearch-song-contest-making-of.html
# jeremyfelt.com edited /year_in_review (+207) "Add my personal years in review page as an example" (view diff)
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[KevinMarks] If you want a zoomable dynamic map with markers on I can help make that with leaflet.js
# [tantek]1 note the point about more abstract/coarse not 1:1
# [tantek]1 the literal maps that display this sort of thing emphasize all the blank space, instead of the data
# [tantek]1 who << Brainstorming: get inspiration from [[about#Organization_Examples]]
# Loqi ok, I added "Brainstorming: get inspiration from [[about#Organization_Examples]]" to the "See Also" section of /who https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78469&oldid=78461
# [KevinMarks] Fair point, and you do end up with the https://xkcd.com/1138/ problem
# Loqi [XKCD] Heatmap https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/heatmap_2x.png
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@verycoolhacker Where is the Technorati dot com of the #IndieWeb? (twitter.com/_/status/1472344089278492675)
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@petermolnar ↩️ There isn't one specific: if content gets syndicated to silos, any and all silos become them:
https://petermolnar.net/article/how-i-misunderstood-an-aspect-of-indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1472350022461235213)