#meta 2022-01-06

2022-01-06 UTC
darkkirb and balupton[d] joined the channel
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GWG Anyone want to come to an HWC?
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GWG Usual suspects? [tantek]? tracydurnell[d]? angelo_ ?
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tracydurnell[d] I can come in 5 min
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GWG No rush. Just avoiding that solo picture problem
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[KevinMarks] I'm there
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[tantek] I was out getting groceries & dinner. Be there in a few minutes
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[KevinMarks] https://observablehq.com/@toja/five-map-projections-for-europe
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[KevinMarks] https://observablehq.com/@jgaffuri/dorling-cartogram
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Loqi [Event Updated] tantek.com updated "Jan 5, 2022 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - The Americas" changed end_time "extend the time just to show the zoom link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/326/history/988/diff
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+0) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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Loqi [New Event] david.shanske.com created "Jan 12, 2022 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" https://events.indieweb.org/aMBULpVMpIAi
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Loqi [Event Updated] david.shanske.com updated "Jan 12, 2022 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" changed tags https://events.indieweb.org/event/327/history/990/diff
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Loqi [Event Updated] david.shanske.com updated "Jan 12, 2022 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" changed description https://events.indieweb.org/event/327/history/991/diff
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+166) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /Discord (+492) (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /Discord (+10) "/* See Also */" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /IRC (+605) (view diff)
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@t If I post notes to my site instead of Twitter, who will see them? It’s not either or, it’s yes and. Post to your Own Site, and Syndicate Elsewhere (to Twitter etc.) https://indieweb.org/POSSE POSSE directly or use a service like https://brid.gy https://tantek.com/t5Gc1 (twitter.com/_/status/1479012990024183810)
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[tantek] trying to keep up my positive posting streak for the year ^
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@voxpelli And if you’re quite happy with your publishing flow at eg. Twitter today, then have the first step be PESOS instead: https://indieweb.org/PESOS Then you will start to have a presence on your own site which you can build on and extend over time, maybe eventually reaching eg. POSSE (twitter.com/_/status/1479033839099994123)
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tantek.com edited /why (+111) "Reclaim your attention and focus" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-186) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Template:next-hwc (+0) "update next date from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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zerojames[d] feed reader << 1feed Feed Reader: https://1feed.app/
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Loqi ok, I added "1feed Feed Reader: https://1feed.app/" to the "See Also" section of /feed_reader https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78948&oldid=73069
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Murray[d] what is internet archive
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Loqi The Internet Archive is a non-profit organization that is building a digital library, including archival copy of much of the public web, and since 2019 is the primary location the IndieWeb community hosts videos of IndieWebCamp and Summit sessions https://indieweb.org/Internet_Archive
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Murray[d] blogroll << blog roll
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Loqi ok, I added "blog roll" to the "See Also" section of /blogroll https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78949&oldid=78853
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Murray[d] what is editing the wiki
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Loqi wikifying is the practice of capturing information and ideas on the wiki https://indieweb.org/editing_the_wiki
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@Cambridgeport90 The #IndieWeb community has always wanted to do this... integrating the PostKinds plugin with Gutenberg, and then getting these posts set up as core post types in WP Core. Figured that @photomatt would appreciate it, too? How would that work? (twitter.com/_/status/1479075844924403715)
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Murray[d] Right, I give up. The link on the /blogroll page talking about how that term was coined is dead. The Wayback Machine has it tracked here: https://web.archive.org/web/20010309105741/http://doc.weblogs.com/2000/12/17
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Murray[d] I can't find anything saying how you go about replacing those links, so if anyone can point me in the right direction I'll do so, or if anyone else wants to that's fine too 😄
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Murray[d] Might be worth adding to the wikify stuff, though that was a non-obvious term for me to search in the first place so... oh well
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Murray[d] (also, the link isn't particularly useful at explaining what blogroll means, so if anyone knows I'd be interested; seems like a really weird term)
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loqi.me created /blog_roll (+21) "prompted by zerojames[d] and redirect added by zerojames[d]" (view diff)
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www.jeremycherfas.net edited /blogroll (+43) "/* History */ Using the Internet Archive link found by [[Murray]]." (view diff)
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jeremycherfas Interesting that the Doc Searls post you found, Murray[d] also contains as its first item a link to a site death.
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Murray[d] jeremycherfas++ thanks for that 🙂
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Loqi jeremycherfas has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (8 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas I agree, too, that it does not define a blogroll.
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Murray[d] yeah, it's a very weird and (to me) unintuitive word. The less it's been used, the more I forget what it means 😄
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jeremycherfas Trends is not very informative https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=blogroll,blog%20roll
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[KevinMarks] Doc was using it in the academic sense of logrolling - ie mutually sharing things from colleagues https://www.dictionary.com/browse/logrolling
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[KevinMarks] it became a noun for the list of linked blogs in your sidebar a bit later I think.
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Murray[d] And there's the missing context 🙂
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Murray[d] [KevinMarks]++
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Loqi [KevinMarks] has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (52 in all channels)
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jeremycherfas It was definitely a module in Blogspot blogs before that citation of Doc's
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[KevinMarks] Jason set up blogrolling.com as a tool in late 2001/early 2002 I think https://web.archive.org/web/20020415040753/http://www.blogrolling.com/?start_letter=rct
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jeremycherfas Maybe he coined it, earlier, and Blogspot took it up. I can't seem to lay my hands on Rebecca Blood's book, which I think may contain more context.
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aaronpk web3 << https://seldo.com/posts/crypto-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly
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Loqi ok, I added "https://seldo.com/posts/crypto-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly" to the "See Also" section of /Web_3.0 https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78954&oldid=78932
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Murray[d] I've added that context and links (plus Wikipedia link) to the /blogroll page for next time I forget. Thanks both 👍
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jeremycherfas Murray[d]++
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Loqi Murray[d] has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (5 in all channels)
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aaronpk blockchain << https://seldo.com/posts/crypto-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly
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Loqi ok, I added "https://seldo.com/posts/crypto-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly" to the "See Also" section of /blockchain https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78955&oldid=78917
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jeremycherfas Although I'm not sure Doc still deserves credit for the coinage, unless he did indeed inspire Blogspot and others.
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jeremycherfas I don't know enough about that early history to be sure.
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www.jvt.me edited /scrobble (+179) "/* IndieWeb Examples */" (view diff)
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boffosocko.com edited /2022/Pop-ups/Sessions (+871) "/* Personal Libraries */ Drini Cami" (view diff)
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aaronpk regarding indiewebcamp shirts, i've been having good luck with printful and i could definitely put together a shop there pretty quick
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aaronpk they have all-over-print t-shirts too which is fun, i have an owncast shirt in that style
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aaronpk and they have masks too :) https://www.printful.com/custom/face-masks/fabric
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GWG Hats?
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aaronpk many styles
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[jeremycherfas] Shipping to Europe etc?
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aaronpk yeah, they will even print it in europe so you don't have to ship it across the world
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[KevinMarks] Shipping to UK (no longer in europe)
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk might have to pay import tax on that
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aaronpk but yes generally they can ship anywhere
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aaronpk https://www.printful.com/shipping#shipping-rates
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[tantek] instead of intl shipping, can we "print local" to make it cheaper, support local businesses, and reduce fuel/travel miles for goods?
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aaronpk yes that is what they do
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aaronpk https://www.printful.com/sustainability-responsibility#carbon "Around 81% of Printful orders are delivered in the same region they’re fulfilled"
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aaronpk (depends on the specific product since they don't have production facilities for every type of product in every location)
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GWG Can we keep adding new merchandise?
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aaronpk yep
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GWG Hmm... start working on my slogans
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@bitandbang ↩️ genuinely curious if by decentralization you mean the group cryptocurrency people who are screeching “decentralization”, or if you mean them *and* the more broad decentralization-focused groups that have existed for much longer, like indieweb, scuttlebutt, matrix, diaspora*, etc? (twitter.com/_/status/1479172204327751682)
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[chrisaldrich] planet << Example from Tom Critchlow https://tomcritchlow.com/feeds/
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Loqi ok, I added "Example from Tom Critchlow https://tomcritchlow.com/feeds/" to the "See Also" section of /planet https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78959&oldid=78272
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[chrisaldrich] planet << Search related example from SearchMySite.net: https://searchmysite.net/search/new/ by diaplyaing the newest posts in their search, the platform becomes a planet of recent posts made on independent websites
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Loqi ok, I added "Search related example from SearchMySite.net: https://searchmysite.net/search/new/ by diaplyaing the newest posts in their search, the platform becomes a planet of recent posts made on independent websites" to the "See Also" section of /planet https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78960&oldid=78959
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[chrisaldrich] commonplace book << Example of a digital garden using Notion with a personal domain https://glenn.thedixons.net/
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Loqi ok, I added "Example of a digital garden using Notion with a personal domain https://glenn.thedixons.net/" to the "See Also" section of /commonplace_book https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=78961&oldid=78563
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capjamesg[d] aaronpk I’d love to see a merch shop!
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GWG capjamesg[d]: Got any good merch ideas?
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capjamesg[d] An IndieWeb cap? Shirt? Coaster? Mug?
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capjamesg[d] I would drink out of an IndieWeb mug every day.
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GWG I made one of those
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GWG How about a Homebrew Website Mug?
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[aciccarello] I'd consider a hat. I've got too many shirts as is.
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capjamesg[d] Yes!
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@RubygemsN indieweb-endpoints (7.0.0): Discover a URL’s IndieAuth, Micropub, Microsub, and Webmention endpoints. https://rubygems.org/gems/indieweb-endpoints (twitter.com/_/status/1479211214324789251)
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capjamesg[d] I would drink out of a Homebrew Website Club mug too.
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GWG capjamesg[d]: I thought brew and coffee would be an amusing combo
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capjamesg[d] homebrew++
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Loqi homebrew has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] What do people think about improving the IndieWebCamp wiki pages after they're over to provide the quickest access to what matters the most *after* a camp?
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capjamesg[d] Can you elaborate [tantek]?
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capjamesg[d] This might not be relevant to me but I didn’t quite grasp the question.
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[tantek] for example, when I go back to look at a past IndieWebCamp, rarely do I care about the registration, or other stuff that is about attendign the event in-person or at the time
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[jacky] hmmm
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GWG [tantek]: Might make sense
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[tantek] capjamesg[d], there's three phases and thus three different purposes that IndieWebCamp wiki pages serve for IndieWebCamps. There's 1. before the event (sign-up, pre-reading, session ideas), 2. during the event (session scheduling, etherpads, archiving etherpads to the wiki), and 3. after the event (videos of sessions, photos, blog posts, session notes)
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capjamesg[d] I have noticed that those wiki pages usually list posts at the bottom.
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[tantek] some things are needed before and during (directions to join in-person or online, code of conduct)
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capjamesg[d] Maybe we could archive the venue info etc on another page?
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[tantek] there are also blog posts before the event, vs about the event (during and after)
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capjamesg[d] And keep the main page as a summary of the event, action items, follow up posts, and links to archives.
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[tantek] capjamesg[d] before deciding on new pages, we can at least list out and decide what the sections are that matter for each of the phases
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[tantek] think about this from a visitor's perspective, you find a link to a past IndieWebCamp, what do you expect to see when you click on it? what would you *want* to see? (what what would you find most useful?)
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[tantek] (I have some ideas/answers in mind, but would rather ask these questions to see if folks come up with similar answers)
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[tantek] or at least acknowledge that a *camp wiki page serves very different purposes before, during, and after an event
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aaronpk one of the reasons i've pulled up past event wiki pages is to look for the schedule grid to find out what sessions happened and to find the videos/notes
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[tantek] ding ding ding
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aaronpk probably the primary reason actually
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[tantek] exactly
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[tantek] aaronpk, capjamesg[d], GWG, jacky: compare for example: https://indieweb.org/2016 and https://2016.decentralizedweb.net/ — which one feels like it gives you what you were looking for the quickest? Which one makes you think oooh this is interesting I want to learn more? (with an obvious place to click to read/watch immediately)
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GWG I would want to bring the session list to the main page
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aaronpk i'm definitely supportive of that
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aaronpk in fact i think that could complement the events.indieweb.org site nicely, maybe even to help before the event as well
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aaronpk as in, no need to duplicate the info that's on events.indieweb.org (date, time, location) onto the wiki page before the event
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[tantek] well sorta. e.g. the most recent event, I found it MUCH easier to write-up precise directions for how to get to the venue on the wiki, than futz with markdown or github
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[tantek] it's more than "move session list to main page"
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[tantek] look at how the two links I gave look & feel VERY different from a high level perspective. that's not fixed with "move a list"
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aaronpk i didn't say *only* session list
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aaronpk i said not duplicating info. i totally support detailed directions to the venue on the wiki
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GWG But after the event..who needs directions?
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aaronpk that's a separate issue
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aaronpk cleaning up the page post-event is a good goal. as is reducing the amount of work to create the pages before the event by avoiding duplicating info.
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aaronpk the pre-event discussion is mostly pointless right now anyway seeing as we have no plans for another in-person event any time soon
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[tantek] aaronpk, I'm still thinking Düsseldorf in May 😄
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[tantek] that's only four months away
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[tantek] rather than thinking of it as "cleaning up", I'd like to consider the design of the "post event page" as something of its own that we could perhaps "flip a switch" and update, perhaps when the camp videos are all uploaded
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[tantek] GWG, given our pattern of re-using venues, future organizers can re-use directions for future camp wiki pages
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aaronpk yeah that works
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aaronpk things i would like to see on a post-event page: schedule grid, session links, videos, blog posts about/from the event, photos from the event, link to how to find the next similar upcoming event
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[tantek] great!
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[tantek] that's exactly the kind of brainstorming I was hoping to see
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aaronpk (those are not in any particular order)
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[tantek] things I expect to see when I visit a past event page (in contrast to an upcoming or current event page) :
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[tantek] how "real" was this event" i.e. who was there? (e.g. event group photo)
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[tantek] what kind of specific topics were discussed at this event? (don't make me read a paragraph, and don't give me a repeat of a generic description from other similar events, don't make me wade through "clever" attempts at session names)
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[tantek] what videos/notes can I view from those discussions, and perhaps blog posts about those discussions?
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[tantek] when is the next one?
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Loqi what
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[tantek] what were previous similar events, perhaps in that same city, perhaps with some indication of how many sessions (recordings) each had (like a number in parentheses)?
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@mungojelly ↩️ much longer? what? ssb & matrix = 2014, indieweb & diaspora = 2010, vs, bitcoin = 2009 or do you mean much longer than when mastercard et al made up the fake kind of "decentralization" in bitcoin, it was like 2014 when they got upset about Bitcoin XT (twitter.com/_/status/1479232204702105604)
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[chrisaldrich] I feel like in the past I've moved some of the less useful parts of the planning and pre-event stuff and moved links to videos and notes up the page. I'm sure I've also commented out some of the relatively useless pieces altogether so they don't show up, but are still there, and easier to cut/paste into the next event (where they can be uncommented for use).
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[chrisaldrich] We could definitely stand to standardize some of these practices.
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[chrisaldrich] We could also do a better job of cross linking Camp sessions on particular topics to those topics pages to make them easier to find. (This came up last night at HWC when someone was looking for a camp session they knew happened on a topic, but it was difficult to hunt down.)
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[chrisaldrich] https://indieweb.org/commonplace_book#Sessions is an example of this sort of pattern
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[chrisaldrich] What are past camp sessions?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "past camp sessions" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "past camp sessions is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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boffosocko.com created /past_camp_sessions (+31) "prompted by [chrisaldrich]" (view diff)
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aaronpk one way to help find those is to look at the "what links here" since it's more likely that the topic was added to the session page during the session https://indieweb.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/commonplace_book
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk: That's exactly what I suggested last night. 😁
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aaronpk ha great
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[chrisaldrich] I don't think many people would necessarily think to do that...
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aaronpk i'm not suggesting it's what people would expect to use, but it's a good way to find them to then add the links on the main topic page to the session page
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[chrisaldrich] In a tacit means of "displaying webmentions" (at least from within the wiki itself), we could always create a template to put at the bottom of pages to show those crosslinks explicitly.
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[chrisaldrich] I took a crack at working something like this out on my own user page: https://indieweb.org/User:Boffosocko.com#Backlinks
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk, is there a public view of webmentions that the wiki receives? I'm pretty sure you've been collecting them somewhere...
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aaronpk there's no public UI for it but if you know how to get them from webmention.io you can
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aaronpk https://webmention.io/api/mentions.jf2?target=https://indieweb.org
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[chrisaldrich] aaronpk++ Thanks, that's a start! Though I don't think that granary or unmung convert those...
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Loqi aaronpk has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (116 in all channels)
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[chrisaldrich] What are past camp sessions?
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Loqi Here is a list of prior IndieWebCamp sessions by year https://indieweb.org/past_camp_sessions
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[chrisaldrich] Thanks Loqi!
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Loqi you're welcome
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aaronpk what are you trying to convert them to?
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aaronpk unmung should be able to handle the jf2 from webmention.io