#meta 2022-05-17

2022-05-17 UTC
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@fluffy New post: Notes: Re: Plurality and the IndieWeb https://beesbuzz.biz/blog/chatter/1785-Re-Plurality-and-the-IndieWeb #IndieWeb (twitter.com/_/status/1526358504826601480)
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jacky.wtf edited /h-card (+210) "/* What should be a u-url on the h-card and what shouldn’t? */ add thoughts" (view diff)
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[fluffy] I seem to be great at triggering edge case weirdness in news.indieweb.org. Oops.
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[jamesg483] My first wiki contribution in sooo long!
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[tantek] what is plurality
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Loqi Encouraging a plurality of projects with a self-motivated incentive to interoperate is a key principle of the indie web, in contrast to monoculture efforts which require or even encourage everyone to install the same software, or use the same online service, in order to interoperate https://indieweb.org/plurality
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[tantek] ^ [fluffy] in answer to your note
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[tantek] pretty specific and nothing to do with psych/multiplicity (which I hadn't even heard of, and know of no evidence to presume that would be "more common one on the Internet in 2022")
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[fluffy] Do a websearch on “plurality” and tell me what comes up 😛
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[tantek] nah I already checked the wikipedia disambiguation page, it's just one of many many alternatives
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[fluffy] Wikipedia’s disambiguation page might be the top result but what are the other results you see?
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[tantek] https://twitter.com/search?q=plurality is mostly politics and grammar
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[fluffy] the top non-definition hit I get is https://pluralityresource.org/plurality-information/
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[fluffy] and then the next one is https://pluralpedia.org/w/Plurality
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[tantek] ^ sure, SEO domain + path optimizing
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jacky vaguely remembers someone mentioning this
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aaronpk wow, interesting example of a process for creating weekly newsletters https://github.com/rust-lang/this-week-in-rust
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[fluffy] anyway there are a *lot* of plural-identified people on social media these days, especially on tumblr and mastodon
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Loqi [rust-lang] this-week-in-rust: Data for this-week-in-rust.org
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[fluffy] so it’s at least worth being clear about what’s being meant
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aaronpk Not a big fan of the PR method of adding stuff but I do like their categories and suggestions for what is relevant
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[fluffy] for that matter when I posted my note I got someone complaining about indieweb “appropriating” the term, which is silly, but it’s not a rare response (and a few other folks saying they were confused too)
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[tantek] [fluffy] you said "in 2022" so I checked Twitter for "recent" uses. That's a more accurate assesment than Google's broken algorithm which does a crappy job with recency
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[fluffy] Most plural-identified folks I know have left twitter and are much more active on mastodon and tumblr
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[fluffy] I realize I have my own community bias in play too
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[tantek] still, you said "on the Internet", not self-identifying so once again, Twitter is though coarse, a decent reflection of "recent on the Internet"
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[fluffy] Anyway my point was just that the term is commonly used by many different things and so it was confusing to try to figure out what the post was about.
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[tantek] really? when he specifically said "IndieWeb's approach to plurality"?!?
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[tantek] how is that not an English reference to "check the IndieWeb wiki for /plurality"?
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[fluffy] That’s not the first impulse a lot of folks have. Also I’m not trying to have an argument here, it was a legitimate concern that other folks have shared.
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[fluffy] for example https://dragon.style/@monsterblue/108315149862358953 is a response I got on mastodon
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Loqi [despot of the freshwater] @fluffy Heh, yeah, I totally thought this was going to be about "hey, the indie/small web is more accepting of plurality as in systems/headmates".
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loqi.me created /IndieWeb_approach (+267) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /IndieWeb_approach (+68) "extend to include something" (view diff)
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[tantek] [fluffy] maybe that's worth adding to /plurality as a possible interpretation that folks are having and maybe brainstorming about what it might mean
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[tantek] also I did just Google plurality and the very first thing I see is the definition one-box, not those domains/sites you gave
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[tantek] "plu·ral·i·ty /plo͝oˈralədē/ noun: *plurality*; plural noun: *pluralities*
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[tantek] 1. the fact or state of being plural."
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[tantek] which is how the IndieWeb is using it
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[tantek] the appropriation claim is laughable and sad, frankly
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[tantek] when the wikipedia page for something already lists over a dozen varied uses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurality it's going to be really hard to argue that one more use is "appropriation"
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[fluffy] Yeah I agree that the appropriation claim is silly
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[fluffy] The person who made that claim is already embittered about the indieweb for some reason and I really don’t understand why (but it’s been a recurring thing with him)
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[tantek] there are plenty of reasons to criticize IndieWeb, so if you go looking for that, you'll surely find them
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[fluffy] Anyway I did my comparative search on duckduckgo which is supposedly going to eliminate my own community bias and the results were, in order, Mirriam Webster definition, free dictionary definition, then several webpages about the psychological phenomenon.
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[fluffy] Then a bunch of pages about voting systems, thus the main thing I *thought* the original entry was about.
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[tantek] it's surprising because it's one of our /principles
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[fluffy] I belong to many different communities and sometimes there are terminology conflicts between those communities.
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[fluffy] Especially with words with many overloaded definitions.
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[fluffy] The psychological definition of ‘plurality’ comes up a *lot* in spaces full of marginalized people, especially LGBT spaces.
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[fluffy] oh and there are reasons to criticize IndieWeb sure but this person loves to make up entirely nonsensical reasons, like he seems to think we have a “real-names policy” and so on
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[fluffy] and whenever I ask him to show me where anything like that turns up he never is able to point to anything that shows that but he’s *sure* we have one all the same
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[tantek] I mean, we have a real domain names policy lol. what you put in your Whois is your business
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[fluffy] I had briefly convinced him to join here and the wiki because he’s interested in the indieweb principles, but then for some reason he noped out after like half an hour. Oh well.
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[tantek] yeah, I figure people have their reasons for however they prioritize their time
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[tantek] the more we make the wiki etc. useful (and hopefully friendly) to folks who only have a little time to spend, the better
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tantek.com edited /cryptocurrency (+125) "link to Wikipedia vote against accepting crypto" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+60) "/* Silo support */ subsections and links to example aggregations" (view diff)
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aaronpk Webmention << articles about webmention https://dev.to/t/webmentions
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Loqi ok, I added "articles about webmention https://dev.to/t/webmentions" to the "See Also" section of /Webmention https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81480&oldid=81391
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[tantek] ^ that's more interesting aaronpk, per the discussion in #indieweb
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aaronpk Was trying to keep wiki edit noise out of the main channel
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[tantek] ah
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tantek.com edited /hashtags (+164) "start Blog Aggregators section with dev.to" (view diff)
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[jamesg483] What is a challenge?
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Loqi challenge is an event-like post which serves as a (typically open) invitation for people to post achievements towards some goal, like running a total distance, or posting photos at some frequency (every day), supported by silos like Strava and micro.blog https://indieweb.org/challenge
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[tantek] that's an actual challenge like to achieve something (presumably measurable) beyond just "post something"
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[fluffy] FWIW when I search twitter for top tweets on ‘plurality’, they are, in order, about the psychology one, race statistics, psychology, race statistics, “plurality of ideas” (in a democracy context), and then vague statements that can’t be ascertained based on context. Also it’s worth noting that the Marvel show Moon Knight has also reignited a lot of discussion about the psychology one since the protagonist in that is a pl
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[fluffy] and going down a little further it’s all about the psychology one. But Twitter is also probably adapting my search results based on the communities I follow.
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[KevinMarks] This has made me realise that "Sybil attack" is another term that needs to be replaced
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[fluffy] oof yeah
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sknebel apparently "pseudospoofing" was/is also used instead (according to wikipedia)
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[schmarty] "sock puppet attack" feels like a good replacement given the existing term for folks making fake accounts on social media. a quick search doesn't turn up folks using it that way.
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[fluffy] Yeah I've seen that term used in the context of NFT shilling.
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@ChrisAldrich A refback (remember those?!) today reminded me about this post: Non-technical IndieWeb: Fun, Creativity, Community, and “Content” https://boffosocko.com/2020/12/20/non-technical-indieweb-fun-creativity-community-and-content/ I should try to add more on #creativity and #fun to my IndieWeb Collection https://boffosocko.com/research/indieweb/ (twitter.com/_/status/1526649815857258497)
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[tantek] for NFTs I've heard more "wash trading"
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laker.tech edited /User:Laker.tech (+410) "testing please ignore :)" (view diff)
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laker.tech edited /User:Laker.tech (+5) "more tests! waow" (view diff)
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IWDiscordGateway <sunset> i am having a time right now, can you tell XD
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[aciccarello] what is dev.to
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "dev.to" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "dev.to is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[aciccarello] what is DEV
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Loqi local development is (or local dev, local dev setup) the practice of having a version of your site on your local machine like a laptop that you can use for development purposes, even when offline https://indieweb.org/%22.dev%22
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[aciccarello] what is /DEV
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Loqi local development is (or local dev, local dev setup) the practice of having a version of your site on your local machine like a laptop that you can use for development purposes, even when offline https://indieweb.org/%22.dev%22
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[aciccarello] That's not this https://indieweb.org/DEV
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sknebel dev.to is /DEV
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Loqi ok
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[aciccarello] Ah, thanks!
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sknebel [aciccarello]: Loqi runs a search on the wiki, that sometimes finds the wrong thing if the names are very similar
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@bradenslen If you ever wanted to know about the Indieweb this is a great place to start. (twitter.com/_/status/1526671851526709248)
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IWDiscordGateway <tracydurnell> [chrisaldrich]'s post about content reminded me, it sounds like HWCs sometimes used to have a quiet writing hour beforehand? I was curious, have people tried doing that as a standalone mini event online ("blogging hour")? I went to an online 1-hour cowriting session the other day but wasn't sure if IndieWeb would be into that 😉
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jacky ^ that I'd be into
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jacky even like if there's some sort of a shared prompt
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jacky lol heck, maybe like a short story (~100 words) session
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IWDiscordGateway <tracydurnell> prompt could be interesting 🤔 short story would be fun 😄
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[tantek] tracydurnell, we've certainly tried that repeatedly, and it's worked better when HWCs were in person
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IWDiscordGateway <tracydurnell> thanks [tantek], good to know 👍
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[tantek] the rest of this page needs LOTS of updating, but at least it has this snippet: https://indieweb.org/Homebrew_Website_Club#Quiet_Writing_Hour
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[tantek] FWIW when I search twitter for ‘plurality’ (https://twitter.com/search/plurality), they are, in order, about "plurality of the black vote" (voting), "plurality of unmerged consciousnesses" (maybe psych?), "form a slight plurality" (voting), "plurality of the votes" (voting), "become a plurality" (voting), "Plurality of ideas" (aligned with the IndieWeb principle), "given our plurality" (identifying), "plural people" (identifying
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[tantek] "plurality of friends there" (political)
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