#meta 2022-06-09

2022-06-09 UTC
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@json_dirs Looking for a critical perspective on the DOI system from STS, media studies, indieweb ppl, etc. Writing a bit about it and would love to read/cite something beyond industry and industry-pilled sources. (sry fediverse for the qt xpost, figured u might know too) (twitter.com/_/status/1534696650911780864)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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Loqi [New Event] david.shanske.com created "Jun 15, 2022 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" https://events.indieweb.org/KS8OCRWFhheS
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@StrawberrEclair Been learning a lot about #indieweb and the POSSE concept. I hope to have my site updated to match some of these ideas fairly soon. Stay posted! (twitter.com/_/status/1534731016270659585)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+166) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[chrisaldrich] multi-site indieweb << https://werd.io/2022/my-personal-websites---june-2022
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Loqi ok, I added "https://werd.io/2022/my-personal-websites---june-2022" to the "See Also" section of /multi-site_indieweb https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=81842&oldid=80150
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gRegor haha, werd.press. awesome
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[tw2113_Slack_] If I want to spend $85, i can get *wurd.press*
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[tw2113_Slack_] not worth the pun remix
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gRegor ouch
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[tantek] how about werd.press? [benatwork]
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Loqi [New Event] jamesg.coffee created "Jun 15, 2022 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" https://events.indieweb.org/ERdBgDH7IPQL
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Loqi [Event Updated] jamesg.coffee updated "Jun 15, 2022 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" changed website "Resolve typo in HWC London domain" https://events.indieweb.org/event/379/history/1095/diff
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Loqi [Event Updated] jamesg.coffee updated "Jun 15, 2022 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" changed description "Remove old Etherpad link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/379/history/1096/diff
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+173) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-176) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /Template:next-hwc (+0) "update next date from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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[Scott_Jack] his dreams take place in a shared universe ... wild
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[Scott_Jack] I bought thescottjack.com because a lot of people don't remember how I spell scojjac
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[Scott_Jack] but i'll probably let it languish
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[Scott_Jack] my legal name doesn't include my mother's maiden name but i've thought of getting a domain that does - much easier than legally changing my name ha
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www.ciccarello.me edited /backfill (+148) (view diff)
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@css Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://css-tricks.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet/ (twitter.com/_/status/1534921498619691008)
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[schmarty] this is good feedback
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@glenn_ferrell Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://ift.tt/sivIrpl Geoff Graham #css-tricks (twitter.com/_/status/1534923398631067650)
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[aciccarello] I'd love to see some more meta discussion of. If someone is just learning about the indieweb how do we make the wiki easy to understand.
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aaronpk oh that's in the context of wordpress again isn't it
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[aciccarello] I'll often open up a wiki page and think "this doesn't feel like a great summary".
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GWG I need to do more evangelizing
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[aciccarello] I need to do more wiki cleanup
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GWG Don't we all?
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@ThemeSpectrum Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://ift.tt/sivIrpl - @real_css_tricks (twitter.com/_/status/1534925308196962305)
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[tantek] aciccarello, yup, gardening the wiki is something we need to grow (so to speak) more of!
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[tantek] have you had a chance to read through /wikify?
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[tantek] yes aaronpk, Geoff's post is in the context of WordPress. Miriam's article is in the context of SSGs. IMO both of those are solutions for developers, not "non-technical people" (as Miriam said)
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[tantek] Miriam's post, with facepile and comments looks pretty good to me! https://www.miriamsuzanne.com/2022/06/04/indiweb/
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Loqi [Miriam Eric Suzanne] Am I on the IndieWeb Yet?
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aaronpk wordpress _could_ be a solution for non-developers with some more work put in to the indieweb plugins, especially consolidating the "semantic linkbacks" plugin
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[tantek] It "could be" if it were MUCH more debugged, it had an updated simplified UI with good defaults (and progressive disclosure), and frankly were robust enough that you didn't have to be a "WordPress mechanic" to keep it running
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[tantek] it's that latter part that makes WordPress developer-only IMO. anything that requires plugins with configuration and troubleshooting = developers only
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[tantek] the broader question of "Am I on the IndieWeb Yet?" is one that a combination of an improved IndieMark + validator that checks various levels of features should answer "How IndieWeb Am I?"
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@swavetech_ Am I on the IndieWeb yet? | CSS-Tricks https://swavedigest.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet-css-tricks?feed_id=127422&_unique_id=62a2196710f56 (twitter.com/_/status/1534928737803898880)
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@SwaveDigest Am I on the IndieWeb yet? | CSS-Tricks https://swavedigest.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet-css-tricks?feed_id=127421&_unique_id=62a219669361a (twitter.com/_/status/1534928735736037377)
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jacky in comes the wave
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jacky re: needing such a tool to help people
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jacky it feels a bit chicken-and-eggy
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jacky well two parts
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jacky chicken-and-eggy to start contributing to https://indiewebify.me/
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jacky but also working on an 'agreed enough' defintion of what a 'path to IndieWeb-ness' looks like
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jacky like yeah /Getting_Started is a bit like spinning a wheel (unless you have some idea as to where you'd like to start)
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@feedpushr Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://css-tricks.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet/ (twitter.com/_/status/1534929957817921536)
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@247webDevs Am I on the IndieWeb yet? #learning #100DaysOfCode #coding #100Devs #100daysofcodechallenge #programming #git… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534928479128539137 (twitter.com/_/status/1534928479128539137)
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[tantek] jacky, re: 'path to IndieWeb-ness' looks like, that's literally what we started IndieMark for, to provide an explicit path for folks that *want* an explicit path (many folks don't, they don't want to be told what "IndieWeb" is, they want to choose themselves)
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[tantek] There's plenty of existing ways to improve IndieWebify.me in the issues
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[tantek] it's not chicken/egg, there's lots of improvements that can be made immediately
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[tantek] LOTS here for anyone who wants to help incrementally improve IndieWebify: https://github.com/indieweb/indiewebify-me/issues
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@brianleroux another reason we need indieweb is to put an end to these ridiculous anticompetitive siloes for a basic commodity like a calendar (twitter.com/_/status/1534933898701856775)
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jacky there's small tickets there whose PRs would be simple to implement so I'll prob start contributing with that
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@michaeldoye Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://ift.tt/sivIrpl (twitter.com/_/status/1534936715466620929)
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[tantek] also worth IndieNewsing both Geoff and Miriam's posts
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@web_designerin CSS-Tricks: Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRvc9d powered by http://web-designerin.ch (twitter.com/_/status/1534938009316970507)
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@JasperJay1 Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRvc9C (twitter.com/_/status/1534938008998203393)
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@ajay_namitha Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRvc8S (twitter.com/_/status/1534938008788488200)
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@AdamCarr__ Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRvc9M (twitter.com/_/status/1534938008771710979)
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@scumdograscal Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://css-tricks.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet/ (twitter.com/_/status/1534938968982179841)
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@addonidx Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://css-tricks.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet/ via CSS-Tricks #webdesign #addonidx (twitter.com/_/status/1534940175163326465)
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[aciccarello] [tantek] I have looked at it but mostly for the recommendations for adding myself to the wiki and a specific how-tos. I'll take another look
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[aciccarello] RE: https://indieweb.org/wikifying that is
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[Scott_Jack] aciccarello I super agree, I've just struggled on knowing where to start with cleanup
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[tantek] that's good feedback.
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[tantek] what is wikify
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Loqi wikifying is the practice of capturing information and ideas on the wiki https://indieweb.org/wikify
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[tantek] was this too buried? https://indieweb.org/wikifying#How_to_Contribute_to_the_IndieWeb_Wiki
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[tantek] or is that also too highlevel?
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[aciccarello] I hesitate to say that it was buried because it is a heading but I think the "why/how join the wiki" stood out more than "why/how contribute to the wiki"
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[aciccarello] IMO how to join the wiki should be a separate page linked from /wikify
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scojjac.com edited /User:Scojjac.com (+57) (view diff)
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[tantek] the reason it's there is to literally be a barrier for folks who just want to drive by add their opinions to the wiki but who are not part of the community
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[tantek] i.e. folks that either want to spam their wares, or offer their armchair opinion (food that they don't bother to eat themselves)
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[aciccarello] I see, so you're saying there's an intention emphasis on "join the wiki community" before "contribute to the wiki". That makes sense.
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[tantek] yes. and it's a good way to get practice with wiki editing without mucking up a page people depend on
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[aciccarello] Makes sense
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[aciccarello] Switching gears to thinking about a page like /webmention, If I'm someone just learning about the standard, that wiki page has a very short description (as a wiki page should start with), a "how to implement link", and then a LONG list of examples. Seems like the why is missing.
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[tantek] indeed it could use a Why section (most pages should)
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[aciccarello] Right, "Why" is listed on /wikify as a suggestionf or the first section of a page after the definition
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[tantek] aciccarello, in contrast to https://indieweb.org/POSSE#Why <-- what do you think of that Why section
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@Be_WebDev Am I on the IndieWeb yet? #webdev #css https://ift.tt/sivIrpl (twitter.com/_/status/1534948299039440896)
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[aciccarello] That section looks great and has good detail. Though I wonder how the "why in general" heading is separate from the points before it.
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[Scott_Jack] that is curious.
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[Scott_Jack] the lonely pages are low-hanging fruit ... for example a number of event pages that are not linked from anywhere
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[Scott_Jack] note-post seems duplicative of note
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[Scott_Jack] I don't think I would have found wikify on my own so thanks for sharing. I will come back to it later
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[tantek] aciccarello, I split it up that way to put the most directly impactful or relevant points to most people up front, and then the theory behind it later
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@CSSTricks_Bot Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRvl9h (twitter.com/_/status/1534949968728821775)
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[tantek] scojjac, hah, looks like barnabywalters created /note and /note-post on the same day in 2012 with (nearly?) the same content
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[tantek] and since then /note evolved and note-post was forgotten about
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tantek.com edited /note-post () "(-601) same content as the start of [[note]] which has evolved since" (view diff)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ Well, indieweb doesn't have a marketing budget or VCs talking it up as an investment thesis, it's a group of us working on our websites and getting them talking to each other better. (twitter.com/_/status/1534951967184887811)
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@sense_comment Am I on the IndieWeb yet? | CSS-Tricks - CSS-Tricks https://css-tricks.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet/ (twitter.com/_/status/1534951099655933952)
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@VisionSnap Am I on the IndieWeb yet? CSS Tricks https://css-tricks.com/am-i-on-the-indieweb-yet/ (twitter.com/_/status/1534951029896269825)
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tantek.com edited /note (-113) "related patterns never became a thing, one was a redirect to duplicate content, the other is a see also" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /patterns/note-post (-5) "r--" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /note-list (-129) "related patterns never became a thing, one was a redirect to duplicate content, the other is a see also" (view diff)
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@icodefy Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRvmPQ (twitter.com/_/status/1534952234210930694)
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@Endless_WebDev ↩️ no clue what it is, and how i would develop the equivalent of a website for it or a web app. ...all i here is a bunch of proclamations about how it's the future mostly by people who don't create anything." https://twitter.com/davewiner/status/1534144365018460162 https://indieweb.social/@tchambers/108448740387327185 (2/2) (twitter.com/_/status/1534954497780461568)
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[aciccarello] Is there anything on the wiki/indiewebify.me like the image Geoff Graham shared that highlights some key standards? https://i0.wp.com/css-tricks.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/wp-indieweb-webmentions.jpg
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[tantek] Geoff's key perspective here is as a WordPress user/admin
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[tantek] what is getting started with wordpress
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Loqi By using WordPress on your own domain, you are already a part of the IndieWeb. Below are some suggestions to help you get started with upgrading your WordPress site to support additional IndieWeb philosophies and functionality https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_with_WordPress
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[KevinMarks]1 There's this one https://indieweb.org/graphics
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[tantek] that's not what that's about
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[tantek] it's about highlighting key standards in the context of getting started (with wordpress)
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[tantek] aciccarello, the https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started_with_WordPress is the right place to update to present that kind of graphical list
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aaronparecki.com edited /webmention.io (+97) "/* See Also */ add micro.blog" (view diff)
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GWG aaronpk: Semantic Linkbacks retirement in process
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aaronpk yay
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@sweimer Am I on the IndieWeb yet? https://buff.ly/3aJsegl #FrontEndDev (twitter.com/_/status/1534963291923132416)
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@MrSkanner Am I on the #Indieweb yet? -- Visual Design | The Digital Insider: https://bit.ly/3xlBdMD. #Developer #Experienced #Learn #Link #Play #Tech #Webmentions #WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/1534968433376382998)
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@MrMarchi Am I on the #Indieweb yet? -- Visual Design | The Digital Insider: https://bit.ly/3xlBdMD. #Developer #Experienced #Learn #Link #Play #Tech #Webmentions #WordPress (twitter.com/_/status/1534968401059266560)
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@comprobar_url Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRvwM4 (twitter.com/_/status/1534967579306971137)
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www.thesheps.dev created /User:Www.thesheps.dev (+70) "Created page with "<span class="h-card">[https://www.thesheps.dev/ Chris Shepherd]</span>"" (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /User:Www.thesheps.dev (+183) "Sheps is a software engineer and barbershopper living in Manchester, UK" (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /chat-names (+103) "Adds thesheps chat-user" (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /User:Www.thesheps.dev (+133) (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /Template:sparkline (-84) (view diff)
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@Picksor_waotd Am I on the IndieWeb yet? http://dlvr.it/SRw2Hr (twitter.com/_/status/1534979530951036929)
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gRegor Reverted that Template:sparkline edit, thesheps. I think you wanted to copy that {{sparkline}} example into another Template that you can use as a signature on the wiki. Those are usually your chat name as the template, e.g. https://indieweb.org/Template:gRegor
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loqi.me created /embedded_Tweet (+268) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev created /Template:thesheps (+75) "Created page with "{{sparkline| https://www.thesheps.dev/assets/images/bio.jpg|class=u-photo}}"" (view diff)
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[tantek] and this is why Wikipedia protects templates that are commonly used, typically to avoid accidental edits like that
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www.thesheps.dev edited /User:Www.thesheps.dev (+14) (view diff)
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gRegor thesheps++ looking good. Now you probably want to include your name/nickname beside the sparkline.
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Loqi thesheps has 1 karma over the last year
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gRegor I should have linked more directly: this has the full HTML + wiki template: https://indieweb.org/Template:sparkline#How_to_make_a_small_h-card_template
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Loqi agreed.
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www.thesheps.dev edited /Template:thesheps (+154) (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /Template:thesheps (-78) (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /Template:thesheps (+548) (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /Template:thesheps () "(-505)" (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /Template:thesheps (+0) (view diff)
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gregorlove.com uploaded /Special:Log/upload "uploaded "[[File:Substack-tweet-embed-documentation-2022-06-09.png]]" https://indieweb.org/File:Substack-tweet-embed-documentation-2022-06-09.png"
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gregorlove.com edited /embedded_Tweet (+789) "Examples: Substack with screenshot, see also" (view diff)
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www.thesheps.dev edited /User:Www.thesheps.dev (-14) (view diff)
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goth.land edited /IndieAuth (+176) "Add Owncast as an implementation." (view diff)
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@Cambridgeport90 Looks like I'm going to have to end up going to yet another mastodon server, unless I can get my account back on http://indieweb.social, which is looking less and less likely by the day. (twitter.com/_/status/1534988961336246293)
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aaronpk hmm the https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#IndieAuth_Providers vs https://indieweb.org/IndieAuth#Server_Implementations could use some improvement, there's a lot of overlap in the definitions right now
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@rathermercurial ↩️ You'd never have to worry about recovering your @LensProtocol account. Ownership is self-custody. Sadly, we've eventually got to accept that #indieweb is dead. Web 3 social is the wei. (twitter.com/_/status/1534992457263640576)
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[schmarty] lol
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aaronpk wow
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gRegor no one ever loses a crypto wallet
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@Cambridgeport90 ↩️ You actually think that IndieWeb is dead? What planet do you live on? LOL (twitter.com/_/status/1534995239722795039)
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@Cambridgeport90 The #indieweb isn't dead. Whoever says that again is getting a thrashing. I'll find you, and kill which ever web3 site you are advertising from. (twitter.com/_/status/1534996754273280000)
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[schmarty] that escalated quickly
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[tantek] 🍿
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scojjac.com edited /User:Scojjac.com (+166) (view diff)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ You want to make a long bet on that? https://longbets.org/ Pick a decent time period and we'll see what's still going, indieweb or your current rug pull. (twitter.com/_/status/1535025007251816450)
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scojjac.com edited /User:Scojjac.com (+460) (view diff)
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[Scott_Jack] LensProtocol looks like they entered a competition for how many buzzwords can fit in one Twitter bio
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[Scott_Jack] "A permissionless, composable, & decentralized social graph that makes building a Web3 social platform easy."
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[KevinMarks]1 We have one of those called xfn
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gRegor kevinmarks++
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Loqi kevinmarks has 9 karma in this channel over the last year (51 in all channels)
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gRegor From Lens' Getting Started: "You're going to need to have Git and Docker Compose installed on your system..." Sure, that's gonna be easier than getting started on Mastodon or micro.blog
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gRegor off-topic, sorry. I'll keep complaints to chat :)
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[tantek] Lol that's a valid dev complaint