#meta 2023-04-20
2023-04-20 UTC
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aaronpk I don't know if there's an option for rollback edits https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgRCFeeds
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Loqi aaronpk: [tantek] left you a message 6 hours, 4 minutes ago: having "rollback" edits show up here in #indieweb-meta would be a good thing, because apparently they don't currently (see https://chat.indieweb.org/meta/2023-04-19#t1681938137463700)
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bkil I ran some stats on the time zones of users in the wiki. 50% are from the US and 20% are from the EU. Note that I feel a disparity between the table and the chat in real life - I only see a very few talking here and those are from skewed demographics. https://indieweb.org/chat-names
# bkil Okay, I've downloaded the logs from GitHub. In 2023, 220 distinct users were speaking. 103 spoke on at least two days of these. 50 were non-bots present on the wiki of these. Their timezone distribution is 67% USA, 14% EU.
# bkil Interestingly, this can also be easily confirmed by just plotting a histogram of the unique hours spoken by anyone. A very noticeable dip can be seen when the American continent is sleeping around 05:00-13:00 UTC.
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[tantek] It would also be interesting to do such stats on #indieweb tag pages on various Mastodon instances e.g. https://indieweb.social/tags/indieweb
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christian.hockenberger.us edited /chat-names (+147) "Added myself to the list of chat users" (view diff)
# bkil Hate to bring the bad news, but the only active users this year on IRC outside the US and the EU are from Moscow or London.
# bkil Both are in Europe as well.
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# bkil May also try some geoIP on the logs, although most users seem to be cloaked.
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[chrisbergr] How does the chat log know what time zone I'm in? Does Slack transmit this information? Or is there a match with the chat user list from the wiki?
# [chrisbergr] Okay. Now I'm in there, wasn't before.
# bkil We could actually compute individual, per-user stats to compute weighted peak times (after work or breaks?) and downtimes (sleep patterns?) to arrive at approximate time zones for everybody and then aggregate stats based on that derived table as well.
# bkil Actually, what started me on this quest was that based on my impression of the last few weeks, there was noticeably more chat activity and responsiveness for the usual chat time of Americas. (Oh yeah, lag-ping stats or join-leave times would also be fun to summarize)
# [chrisbergr] But you also have to take into account that there are a few people who are the most communicative. They initiate many discussions.
# [chrisbergr] People like Tantek or Aaron....
# bkil I've normalized the measures to only consider one message per user every hour and the same dip is still noticeable.
# bkil And surely, IRC is not everything - what would be more beneficial to see is the result of crawling all indieweb sites and see which ones have new content (e.g., at least 1 new post in 2023)
# bkil However, as many forgot to link to their site from the wiki or update their link, this would still give us skewed statistics of yet something else. The most interesting measure would be if some small, independent web crawlers were augmented to keep statistics about recently updated sites over the world per IndieMark feature support.
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> bkil I'm from Scotland and I write in on IRC 🙂
# bkil I'm done with this "project" for today FYI. Got other things to do, just wanted to let you know (it was in reply to a question in #indieweb)
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> Also note that the community is broader than this chat. Some people come to events but rarely participate in chat; people implement community protocols and ideas without coming into chat.
# bkil @capjamesg: That was literally the thing I wrote? How come I didn't get my karma? 😛
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# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> There isn’t a good quantitative measure of the size of the community.
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> Bkil++ for the analysis from the wiki!
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> Bkil++
# IWDiscordRelay <capjamesg#4492> There we go!
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# [chrisbergr] @bkil re normalized messures: I understand what you did, but I don't know if I got across what I meant. Even if the messures are limited, it's still possible that one of the more active people animates the less active ones. For example if Ryan has something new to report about bridgy. Suddenly many have something to say about it, even the european night owls. I think that a statistic based on the peak times has no significance.
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# bkil I understand the community management technique of encouragement and empowerment as I practice it myself as well. However, there are statistical limitations to hourly activities. There can exist only a certain percentage of population who don't need to wake up in the morning (e.g., to work) so they can stay up until 3-4AM to chat... And you would also find a similar proportion of such population on the other side of the globe to also somewhat compensate for
# bkil this, so I don't think a handful of people could somehow make the histogram flat intentionally.
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[capjamesg] bkil If you are interested, feel free to blog about personal websites and invite people to come check out the community!
# bkil And then we're also talking theory vs. practice. In practice, when I'm asking something on channels dominated by people from the US (such as this one), there is a noticeable lag in response time depending on when I ask the question and who exactly will answer on the spot or after the fact by @-mention is also highly correlated with their time zone. This effect is so strong, I didn't even have to measure it - I can clearly see it just after a week of
# bkil following the given channel.
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[KevinMarks] Should I revive the joy division activity graph? https://www.kevinmarks.com/joyofsparks.html
# bkil Similarly to others channels that I am present in, I usually idle here to answer the questions of others (giving back), not to ask questions. Surely there is a learning curve to this, but please bear with me.
# bkil I also don't recall that I ever hasted getting an answer here. On the contrary, you seem to have a habit of beating the dead horse as they say - many usually answer or comment on issues quite a bit after it had already been addressed. As I access this chat through a service that offers a chat log, answering within a day or two is also considered quite rapid on my time scale - I prefer to multitask to cope with time zones.
# [tantek] bkil, again, despite being on IRC, these channels have very specific scopes, and aren't really for (semi-)random chat or q&a. I'd say it's worth keeping https://indieweb.org/discuss#Chat_Channels_Purposes in mind for each channel accordingly. There usually isn't much of a learning curve because nearly everyone who comes here comes for something specific to improving their personal website, which is very much in-scope.
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# [tantek] wow the hot-takes in the replies to The Verge AP article author's masto-post: https://mas.to/@pierce/110231624819547202
# Loqi [preview] [David Pierce] I wrote about ActivityPub, and why Elon Musk might have saved social networks by buying Twitter — just not at all in the way he meant to https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/20/23689570/activitypub-protocol-standard-social-network
# capjamesg "And there will be plenty of competition in the race to reinvent social media: social upstarts like Artifact and Substack Notes are building their own closed platforms, and Bluesky, Farcaster, Nostr, and others are building their own open protocols that also aim to decentralize social networking entirely."
# Loqi [[Comparison_of_software_and_protocols_for_distributed_social_networking]] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Comparison_of_software_and_protocols_for_distributed_social_networking&diff=1150944723&oldid=prev Beland: See also Comparison of instant messaging protocols
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gregorlove.com edited /Planning (-248) "/* Organize */ simplify with direct link to /IndieWebCamp_Organizing" (view diff)