#meta 2023-09-26

2023-09-26 UTC
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tantek.com edited /Beyond_Tellerrand (+16) "replace dead Vimeo link with YouTube link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /events/2019-05-13-beyond-tellerrand (+67) "video" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /videos_about_the_indieweb (+93) "fix a few Vimeo links to use YouTube, fix one more broken link" (view diff)
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sugardave.cloud edited /User:Sugardave.cloud (+646) "Re-do my profile page" (view diff)
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GWG If anyone is heading to Nuremberg, I need to make my decision. Where are people staying?
[schmarty] and [jeremycherfas] joined the channel
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[pfefferle] Sadly it is in the time of school holidays and I planned a short trip with my family
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GWG [pfefferle]: Shame
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[pfefferle] yea 😞
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[pfefferle] I hope I can finally make it to all german IWC next year
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sknebel GWG: I've always stayed in airbnbs, so no hotel recommendation from me
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jeremycherfas Yeah, me too. The one I used before is no longer available, so found another one more in the centre, but alas, it is full.
AramZS joined the channel
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[tantek] [Jo] I'm going!
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[tantek] and to the IndieWebCamp Nürnberg right after (Oct 28-29)
gRegor joined the channel
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gRegor More chat messages aren't getting bridged from Slack. :/ Jo's message here and jacky in the main channel
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[tantek] does this mean their IRC puppetbots need restarting? cc aaronpk
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gRegor jeremy's message here too
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[tantek] GWG, can you indicate your (dis)interest in the Organizers meetup before border:none? https://indieweb.org/2023/Nuremberg#Organizers_Meetup
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gRegor what is accessibility
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Loqi Accessibility is the practice of designing so that people with disabilities can have equal access to information and functionality, applicable to both websites as well as physical environments https://indieweb.org/accessibility
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gRegor what is accessibility statement
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "accessibility statement" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "accessibility statement is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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gRegor [tantek], Thinking of renaming this section https://indieweb.org/accessibility#Physical_Environments to "Accessibility Statement" and redirecting there. thoughts?
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[tantek] gRegor, I think we need both. rather, I think we need an direct /accessibility_statement page that has an accessibility statement about http://indieweb.org itself, per https://www.w3.org/WAI/planning/statements/ and that page should also have links to "How to" make your own for your own personal site, and links for IWC event organizers for how to make an AS specific for each event
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[tantek] we could even make "accessibility statement examples" its own page, similar to
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[tantek] what are code of conduct examples
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Loqi https://indieweb.org/code-of-conduct-examples
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gRegor Sounds good
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[tantek] well now I should fix that dfn lol
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gRegor Hadn't seen that w3 page, will review
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[tantek] awesome and thank you. if you feel up to starting the /accessibility_statement page accordingly, I will watch/review and help out
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gRegor dfn-sniped
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tantek.com edited /code-of-conduct-examples (+41) "dfn" (view diff)
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[tantek] these will be great new pages for the newsletter this week too 🙂
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gRegor yep!
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gRegor I don't remember, did we decide to use indieweb- prefix for pages about IW, like indieweb-accessibility-statement is our statement, accessibility-statement is the general concept, how to, examples?
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gRegor https://indieweb.org/indieweb-style-guide is the only example I think I can find
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jamesg.blog edited /2023/Nuremberg (+25) "/* Organizers Meetup */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com created /User:Gregorlove.com/accessibility-statement (+879) "sandbox stub" (view diff)
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gRegor [tantek], ^ as a starting point since wasn't sure which slug to put it at
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[tantek] this is a great slug start. I think the only things I would drop would be claims of equality (because no one actually achieves that and even aspirationally it sets an unreasonable bar. I'd look at the kind of language that the W3C WAI uses), and add citations from the existing /accessibility page
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gRegor Hmm
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gRegor "equal access" came from /accessibility
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gRegor Not sure I fully agree, though, since it also includes the caveat about noting limitations
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gRegor Maybe "as accessible as possible"
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[tantek] this is an area that I wouldn't make up new language nor use specific phrases from /accessibility unless it came from a well written expert source (like the WAI documents)
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[tantek] interesting, both OSBridge and BTConf put their accessibility statements for their events at /accessibility, not at /accessibility_statement
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[tantek] so maybe the right answer is to include the IWC accessibility statement (for events & the site) at /accessibility also, and then focus /accessibility_statement on dfn, how to, etc.
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[tantek] gRegor, as an example, both W3C's "minimal example" https://www.w3.org/WAI/planning/statements/minimal-example/ and "complete example" https://www.w3.org/WAI/planning/statements/complete-example/ don't use the word "equal" or "equity" or anything similar
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gRegor Seems to focus mainly on digital accessibility though, and I wonder if that exclusion is partly to cover for shortcomings. idk, I liked the "commitment" language from WAI and I feel like a "commitment to equal access" is different than saying you actually have it.
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gRegor (shortcomings in the site, like "oops we forgot alt text", things accidentally breaking, etc.)
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gRegor Like at /2017/Bellingham I was committed to equal access for attendees, but unfortunately the venue didn't have an elevator for day 1. That was the main reason for the notice in the Where section.
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[tantek] by the evidence that even experts in accessibility do not make or ask others to make a "commitment to equal access", it strikes me as an unwise thing to claim, promise, or set expectations. it's also arguably impossible given the nature of some disabilities
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[tantek] a "commitment to accessibility" seems to be the more common pattern
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[tantek] that's the term to use, not making up a new phrase like "equal access" which no expert in accessibility is using or proposing
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kvibber.com edited /Eleventy (+71) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ Add self as example of 11ty user" (view diff)
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kvibber.com edited /bookmark (-29) "/* Other bookmarking silos */ remove link on StumbleUpon (shut down in 2018)" (view diff)
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gRegor Equal access isn't a new phrase, though. Disability justice advocates use it and I've seen it in legal contexts, like the DOJ. I guess this is getting more philosophical for me, but I think it's always a "pursuit of" not a destination. Weaker language feels like it makes it easier to shrug shoulders instead of working for better outcomes.