#meta 2024-02-14

2024-02-14 UTC
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Thank _you_ [tantek]++ for persevering with this! Can’t wait to flip the switch!
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tantek.com edited /2019 (+141) "animated group photo at the top, copy edit dfn to break nicer next to floated things" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-23) "edit newsletter line" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /podcasts_about_the_indieweb (+26) "dfn link to Huffduffer tagged podcasts for more recent episodes" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+9) "re-order recent, community first, podcasts directly rather than the less updated Posts about, closing with Subscribe to This Week" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (-36) "simplify events text, more explicit about HWC" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+11) "event link text" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+20) "more event link text iteration" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok I think that looks a bit better
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[tantek] look forward to seeing your updates [Paul_Robert_Ll]!
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gRegor [Paul_Robert_Ll]++ wiki is looking great! Still on Vector 2022 but I'll try 2010 a bit
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Loqi [Paul_Robert_Ll] has 24 karma in this channel over the last year (33 in all channels)
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gRegor [aciccarello], probably not this time. I went to one last February and Google Photos reminded me, so added it to my past events. Good show, though, they have an EP now
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gRegor oops, that was for chat
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GWG Is anyone other than me coming to HWC tomorrow night?
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aaronpk why assume the worst?
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GWG aaronpk: Me? I'm not...no one RSVPed and people did last week. I just wanted to make sure I wouldn't be lonely.
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GWG I figured at least one person might come, but after that sad photo [tantek] suggested I take down of just me at an HWC, better to check
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[tantek] yup, good guideline to require minimum 2+ for HWC photos
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GWG Also, I need a host for the 28th of February, it may be past my bedtime to host. But Pacific's loss is Europe's gain
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gRegor I'll probably be there tomorrow
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gRegor Joe and Al have been attending pretty regularly, won't speak for them, but guessing so :)
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GWG gRegor: One person is all I was checking for. But I know people will likely show. Never hurts to check. They might all be out Valentining.
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[Joe_Crawford] I’ve got plans so will miss.
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aaronpk what text do you want to see in chat when the zoom meeting for an event actually starts?
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GWG Event has begun?
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aaronpk https://github.com/aaronpk/Meetable/issues/171
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Loqi [preview] [aaronpk] #171 Send notification for Zoom event start/end
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aaronpk "Event has begun" sounds like the least helpful notification. which event? how do I join?
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[tantek] Agreed aaronpk
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GWG I meant replace event with the proper title. And I assumed a link would accompany it
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aaronpk that's a lot of assumptions :)
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[tantek] Can't really assume things when it comes to design and microcopy
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aaronpk yep
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[tantek] GWG, engineers only code what is literally specified. You can never make such assumption when specifying something. Whether a product spec or a standard spec
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[tantek] aaronpk I'd take a look at some similar prior art like what iOS calendar event notifications look like, perhaps gCal event notifications also
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[tantek] Presumably (big if) they've user tested their microcopy. Or one holes
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[tantek] hopes* wtf autocorrect
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aaronpk i am in the middle of writing this code to send the notification and then i realized i didn't know what the text should actually be, and now i have to get into a completely different headspace
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aaronpk current thought:
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aaronpk Homebrew Website Club - Pacific started, join now: https://zoom....
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aaronpk and at the end:
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aaronpk Homebrew Website Club - Pacific Zoom meeting ended
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aaronpk but now that I see this in text, the hyphen in the event name gives a disproportionate amount of weight to the stuff at the beginning than the end of it
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[tantek] 🤔
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[tantek] Hmm, maybe it's more like "going live" notifications on IG than Calendar reminders
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[aciccarello] GWG As it's Valentine's Day I probably won't make it tomorrow
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GWG See? I was right to be worried.
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[lifeofpablo] I'll probably be there at some point.
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[Al_Abut] I’ll be there David!
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GWG Good... I'm feeling better now
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tantek.com edited /bookmark (+549) "brief Instead section similar to (smaller than) quote#Instead, new Sessions section" (view diff)
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capjamesg The new homepage looks brilliant!
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www.lazaruscorporation.co.uk edited /User:Www.lazaruscorporation.co.uk (+192) "/* My Website */ added abbr tags" (view diff)
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[Jo] Oh wow new homepage!! I wouldnt have seen that
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[Jo] I like it!
Guest6, Kaja_, sknebel, Zegnat, AramZS, Kaja, jacky, [Jo] and fran1 joined the channel
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fran1 Just stumbled on the chat logs from a couple of weeks ago... thanks to everyone who cleaned up my mess on the Wiki 😅 I've read the 'wikifying' page, and will tread more carefully in the future!
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[tantek] welcome back Fran1++
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Loqi Fran1 has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] no problem at all and we all try to help each other out. the nice thing about a wiki is that we can all help clean things up collectively
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[tantek] [Jo] still shaking things out with the new homepage and wiki styles / themes in general. Please report any bugs or weirdness you see, whether laptop/mobile, or default theme or Vector 2022
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qubyte.codes edited /2024/Brighton (+106) "A note on the co-working space (members may still use it with a reserved room)." (view diff)
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[bjoern] HWC Nuremberg Valentines Day Edition up and running with very small crew today. Can't do a writeup today as I'm not there myself (posting from the train to Berlin). But we keep going and will be back with the usual crowd in March. 😎
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[jacky] oh yes full-width wiki pages 😭
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capjamesg [bjoern] Yay!
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Loqi giggles
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] [tantek] So, when are we flipping the switch on changing the default theme? 😊
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert_Ll] where are we on your checklist/punchlist?
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[tantek] jacky, try the Vector-2022 theme (you can change it in your wiki preferences settings) and see how that feels
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert_Ll] are you in the HWC EU meetup?
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[tantek] oh wait that's not for another hour
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Ooh, I can jump on today (usually busy on Wednesday evenings)
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Maybe then, then?
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[tantek] capjamesg, do you mind if we use part of the HWC EU meetup to do final checks before flipping everything live on the wiki design update?
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capjamesg [tantek] Toward the end, for sure.
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capjamesg (Want to make sure everyone has a chance to share what they have been doing before we dive into the wiki.)
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[tantek] yes that makes sense, main before meta 🙂
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert_Ll] with the Common.css update, looks like the Sidebar (when viewed in Vector 2022) again has too much vertical space between items, and not enough before headers
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[tantek] if folks could go to their https://indieweb.org/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering and switch their theme from Vector legacy (2010) to Vector (2022) and try browsing around the wiki that would help a lot!
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[tantek] That's the default switch flip that [Paul_Robert_Ll] is referring to
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[tantek] Will primarily impact not logged-in users
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tantek.com moved /Gemini to /Gemini_protocol "disambiguate e.g. Google's customer-facing Gemini AI tool"
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tantek.com edited /Gemini_protocol (+6) "dfn tweak per move" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Gemini (+161) "replace redirect with disambig" (view diff)
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[Joe_Crawford] I am guessing that’s with the two preferences under that theme checked. “Enable responsive mode” and “enable limited width mode”
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tantek.com edited /Gemini (+1) "," (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Gemini (+589) "move disambiguation post from protocol to here" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Gemini_protocol () "(-640) moved disambig posts to Gemini disambig page" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Gemini_protocol (-24) "remove trivializing wording "with very little effort" (almost never true in anything)" (view diff)
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kuemmerle.name edited /User:Kuemmerle.name (+49) "Mastodon added" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Gemini (+264) "disambig sections" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Gemini_protocol (+46) "link GeminiProtocol hashtag" (view diff)
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] yes I believe so. I will let [Paul_Robert_Ll] confirm
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gRegor I have those two boxes checked, wiki is looking good
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gRegor User pages look good with updated Vector 2022 as well
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gRegor Think this is probably more a mediawiki thing, but I kinda wish the "Page ... Tools" bar that appears under the headline could be moved somewhere. Just noticed on mobile there's several different menu type things like that.
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gRegor Very top left, hamburger menu for site, then logo, then search and profile icon with down arrow. Below that, bulleted hamburger-like menu for TOC, page title. Below that, "Page" which is a link to the current page, and on the right "Tools" with the down arrow for wiki tools.
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gRegor Not sure what to suggest. "Tools" does make sense there since it's page-level tools. "Page" could maybe be removed?
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gRegor "Page" makes more sense when you're editing, it lets you cancel and get back to reading the page
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] [tantek] Are you viewing the sidebar on your user preferences page? I don’t believe Common.css affects the styling of that page. Looks to be fine on other pages, and the styles we added a few weeks ago remain unchanged.
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[tantek] ahh that was it. good catch. yes much better on home and other pages
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] [gRegorLove] It says page most of the type, but also shows whether it is a category/user/template page, etc.
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tantek.com edited /Getting_Started (-6) "let the hero image auto-size" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok I have some hero image cleanup to do
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Gemini (+50) "/* Google Gemini */ note page creation should be tied to IndieWeb relevance" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /IndieWeb_relevance (+43) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /OpenAI (+43) "simplify dfn, note user-relevance first, and actual community implementation" (view diff)
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paulrobertlloyd.com edited /2024/homepage (+107) "Add additional task to add edit link to homepages" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+110) "copy edit the "all" to "any" per feedback from HWC, note distribution explicitly, link belong to your to own your data also per HWC feedback for a better "first link", edit home page link" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (-2) "-[]" (view diff)
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert_Ll] ^ I added the "edit home page" link to the Resources section for the main home page, hopefully that's easy enough to copy/paste/edit for the translated home pages!
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[tantek] capjamesg, can you reload the home page and see if you notice the subtle edits I just made? Do they help address some of what you're talking about?
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capjamesg ++
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capjamesg Very nice!
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lifeofpablo.com edited /Planning (-152) "/* Sacramento, CA */" (view diff)
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] .vector-toc { background-color: #F8F9FA }
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gRegor I'm really enjoying the updated fonts and spacing on the wiki, more comfortable to read! [Paul_Robert_Ll]++
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Loqi [Paul_Robert_Ll] has 25 karma in this channel over the last year (34 in all channels)
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] You can add that to user styles to add a background colour to the contents table
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Thanks gRegor!
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[tantek] aaronpk, you around and ready to flip the default theme to Vector-2022? HWC EU has given it a good once over and overall thumbs up
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[tantek] a few suggestions for improvement, some of which have been done, but nothing blocking, and in general positive reception that this is a strong improvement
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[tantek] [marksuth]++ for hosting HWC and also thanks for helping facilitate and include folks in conversations capjamesg++
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Loqi capjamesg has 29 karma in this channel over the last year (149 in all channels)
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Loqi [marksuth] has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (24 in all channels)
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aaronpk i will be free in about 20 minutes
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aaronpk 20-30-ish
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[tantek] nice
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capjamesg Following on from HWC, we are looking for a host for March 6th's HWC Europe Online. If you come along regularly and would like to host, please let me know and I'll make sure you are set up.
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capjamesg With that said, if any long-time members of HWC are ever interested in cohosting a call or two, please let me know! There are a couple of things to know but it's a fun opportunity to learn about steering discussions and making sure people are welcome in a meetup.
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aaronpk ok what are we doing
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aaronpk ready to go?
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aaronpk hm, it's not actually a different skin, gotta go find the docs
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aaronpk aha https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Vector/2022
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aaronpk poof
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aaronpk 🎉
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aaronpk vector-2022 is the default
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aaronpk [Paul_Robert_Ll]++
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Loqi [Paul_Robert_Ll] has 26 karma in this channel over the last year (35 in all channels)
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capjamesg [Paul_Robert_Ll]++
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Loqi [Paul_Robert_Ll] has 27 karma in this channel over the last year (36 in all channels)
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Woooooohoooo! Thanks aaronpk++
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Loqi aaronpk has 38 karma in this channel over the last year (120 in all channels)
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] [tantek] One issue I’ve spotted, that didn’t appear before, you can’t login, I think we need to remove the `#pt-login-2` from Custom.css
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Though that link takes you to https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin, not the IndieLogin URL, unsure how we handled this previously?
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] (Didn’t see this issue before, as unable to see the new default skin when signed out, of course!)
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[tantek] looking...
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aaronpk oops!
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[tantek] you mean COMMON instead of CUSTOM?
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Gah!
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Yeah
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[tantek] I'm seriously going to create a redirect
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] That’d be smashing.
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tantek.com created /MediaWiki:Custom.css (+34) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com deleted /MediaWiki:Custom.css "well that didn't work. no redirects in this space with a .css extension apparently"
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tantek.com created /Common.css (+24) "r" (view diff)
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www.benji.dog edited /Main_Page-es (+1463) "Update Spanish translations" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Common.css (+10) "mwns" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /Custom.css (+34) "r" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Common.css (+1) "disable hiding login link to see if this works, though really we want the direct login link, not a two-click nav" (view diff)
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[Joe_Crawford] [Paul_Robert_Ll]++ wiki looking great thank you for your great work!
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Loqi [Paul_Robert_Ll] has 28 karma in this channel over the last year (37 in all channels)
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aaronpk i forget how but there's a way to link to what the login page links to
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Common.css (+104) "re-hide the poor UX MediaWiki login link" (view diff)
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[tantek] [Paul_Robert_Ll] we need to keep hiding the bad UX MediaWiki login link. The correct fix is to make sure wherever we need it that there's a link to https://sso.indieweb.org/login?url=https%3A%2F%2Findieweb.org%2F where the part after the = is url_encode($CURRENT_PAGE) or whatever the right PHP is for that
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aaronpk or make the mediawiki login page automatically redirect
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aaronpk maybe you can inject some JS here? https://indieweb.org/MediaWiki:Loginprompt
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[tantek] lol ok JS hackery
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aaronpk not sure if good idea or bad idea 🤔
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aaronpk how did this work in the old skin?
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[Joe_Crawford] `rawurlencode()` would likely be the way to encode an after-login url in the url. What's the hackery that's needed?
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[tantek] the skins are PHP right?
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aaronpk not anymore
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aaronpk now they are mustache templates
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Loginprompt (+110) "do meta tags work?" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Loginprompt (-110) "no" (view diff)
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aaronpk i had to change the dfn customization because of that https://indieweb.org/MediaWiki_customizations#dfn
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aaronpk and actually i can't do the hack that prevents auto-adding h-entry to pages that already have h-* classes on them.
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aaronpk but we stopped making wiki pages h-event a while ago so it's fine
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capjamesg !archive events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2024-02-14-hwc-europe
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capjamesg Cali?
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capjamesg !archive help
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Loginprompt (+100) "does script work" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Loginprompt (-100) "no" (view diff)
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capjamesg !archive events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2024-02-14-hwc-europe
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capjamesg !archive https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2024-02-14-hwc-europe events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe
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capjamesg What?
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capjamesg !archive https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2024-02-14-hwc-europe events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe
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cali-iwc Created https://indieweb.org/events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe. Please review the page to ensure the document is correctly formatted and remove any unnecessary text.
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cali.moe created /events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe (+5504) "Created event page using IndieWeb events / Etherpad archiver" (view diff)
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capjamesg aaronpk Maybe the Discord changes broke something for my bot.
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (-10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe (-156) "Clean up formatting" (view diff)
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Maybe a redirect on the Apache side of things?
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jamesg.blog edited /events/2024-02-14-hwc-europe (+132) (view diff)
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aaronpk capjamesg: i didn't change anything that would have affected your bot
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aaronpk i did see it quit and rejoin just now
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capjamesg Yeah, I just restarted it.
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capjamesg Did the bridge change recently?
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aaronpk the only change is that some users get a top-level IRC user, and the rest are sent through the IWDiscord user. previously all discord users were going through the IWDiscord IRC user
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capjamesg Thank you for the information.
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capjamesg Weird.
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capjamesg I have no clue what happened. Oh well!
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aaronpk check crash logs?
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capjamesg It didn't crash.
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capjamesg Or if it did I didn't see. Which is a bigger problem 😂
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[tantek] aaronpk I'm looking at https://aaronparecki.com/2018/01/14/3/ and it doesn't say anything about changing the login link
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Loqi [preview] [Aaron Parecki] mediawiki-vector-customizations.php
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aaronpk hmm
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[tantek] can you diff our Vector Legacy (2010) php vs stock to confirm changes?
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[tantek] inability for folks to login seems like a pretty bad bug. we can try to fix live or revert default skin and while fixing
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aaronpk i will revert real quick
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tantek.com edited /Main_Page (+75) "add manual login link as a stopgap" (view diff)
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aaronpk did this change? the login link in the top right corner links to the MW login page https://indieweb.org/note
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aaronpk checks archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20230415000000*/https://indieweb.org/note
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aaronpk that links to the sso URL somehow
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[tantek] maybe the Vector 2010 customizations were lost in the most recent MediaWiki update?
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[tantek] going to add it to the sidebar as a stopgap also
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aaronpk that sounds like it's the case
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aaronpk yes, jan archive has the wrong login link
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aaronpk ok putting new skin back
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aaronpk aha
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+106) "re-organize resources into Get on the IndieWeb (higher up) and Wiki resources (at bottom), add Login to wiki resources" (view diff)
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aaronpk this plugin is supposed to rewrite the login URL https://github.com/indieweb/mediawiki-extensions/blob/main/LassoAuth.php#L53
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tantek.com edited /MediaWiki:Sidebar (+1) "fix **" (view diff)
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[tantek] ok login link in sidebar
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aaronpk lol first result https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Xdml30ukprxkc20r
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aaronpk "PersonalUrls Hook deprecated. Alternatives?"
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aaronpk "I use single-sign-on (SSO) to tie all areas of my site together. The SSO uses PersonalUrls hook to disable the login & anonlogin (special:login) functionality"
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aaronpk this seems to be the new version https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Hooks/SkinTemplateNavigation::Universal
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artlung.com edited /chat-names (-8) "edit of artlung / artlung.com chat name" (view diff)
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aaronpk well this is doable
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tantek.com edited /FAQ (+3) "/* Who is the audience for IndieWebCamps */ break/li" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /FAQ (+9) "/* Who is the audience for IndieWebCamps */" (view diff)
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[lifeofpablo] We have a venue for IWC Sacramento! Now we need to weekend. More details at https://indieweb.org/Planning#Sacramento,_CA
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[lifeofpablo] We have a venue for IWC Sacramento! Now we need to pick a weekend. More details at https://indieweb.org/Planning#Sacramento,_CA
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] So once we’ve edited the `SkinTemplateNavigation` to point to IndieLogin, we can then remove `#pt-login-2` rule?
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gRegor Might be worth putting a bit of info at the top of https://stream.indieweb.org/ about where it comes from. Could link to https://indieweb.org/discuss#stream which has a brief explanation.