#meta 2024-02-15

2024-02-15 UTC
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[tantek] Definitely needs a "What is this?" header/yellowbox explanation
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tantek.com deleted /stream.indieweb.org "delete to make room for a new page"
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tantek.com edited /discuss (-7) "rm explicit TOC" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /stream.indieweb.org (+253) "stub with dfn" (view diff)
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[tantek] gRegor, if you have ideas for what info to put at the top of http://stream.indieweb.org, consider adding to https://indieweb.org/stream.indieweb.org
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gRegor Ah, missed that page
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[tantek] I just created it lol
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[tantek] it used to be a redirect
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aaronpk 😂
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[tantek] aaronpk, is the source for stream.indieweb somewhere on GitHub? I didn't see it on the IndieWeb org: https://github.com/indieweb/?q=stream&type=all&language=&sort=
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aaronpk it's actually built in to monocle
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aaronpk i think it's this file https://github.com/aaronpk/Monocle/blob/main/views/widget.php
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[tantek] uh
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[tantek] but presumably the website stream.indieweb has a bunch more code
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[tantek] would be worth a repo to at least have a place to file issues, like gRegor's suggestion "worth putting a bit of info at the top of https://stream.indieweb.org/ about where it comes from."
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gRegor I think it's pulling from an Aperture channel, right?
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gRegor So the Monocle part of it is lightweight, just a view of one channel without the sidebar of "regular" monocle
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[tantek] sure it has a "content module" where it's pulling info, however it should still have a shell of website code
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gRegor https://github.com/aaronpk/Monocle/blob/main/public/index.php is the front controller
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aaronpk yeah it's really just a CNAME mapping to a channel without all the monocle UI
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aaronpk so stream.indieweb.org is a cname to monocle.p3k.io, which is configured to fetch a particular aperture channel for that domain name
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jacky nice work on the style changes to the Wiki!
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aaronpk this was me being lazy and not wanting to spin up a whole new project for it
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[tantek] heh ok
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[tantek] lazy++
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Loqi lazy has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] jacky, thanks! [Paul_Robert_Ll] has put in a lot of work on this
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[tantek] jacky, if you could take a look at the home page and sidebar to review some minor content changes, it would be appreciated!
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jacky I no longer see a way to sign in
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jacky ooh actually it _only_ shows on mobile
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jacky (within a mobile viewport that is, the link to sign in when the right-most menu is there)
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jacky noticing this on my user page too
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[tantek] oh fascinating
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[tantek] and that's the old MediaWiki login link unfortunately which makes you click through to the actual login link
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[tantek] sigh
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] If we can make the change aaronpk mentioned earlier, and then unhide the login link, I think we’d be in a good place, login wise.
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Always best to try and work with the grain of the system, rather than against it!
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] (Easier said than done, in the realm of MediaWiki!)
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aaronpk especially when they seem to have an allergy to APIs older than 2 years, i swear these things keep changing for no good reason
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[tantek] APIs gonna API
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aaronpk mediawiki treats APIs like google treats messaging apps 😂
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[tantek] I mean, like Google treats APIs to messaging apps
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tantek.com edited /Bridgy_Fed (+2035) "/* Troubleshooting */ Activity in dashboard without delivery status, wait a few minutes, and what you should see" (view diff)
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[tantek] [snarfed] FYI another BF Troubleshooting entry for your review: https://indieweb.org/Bridgy_Fed#Activity_in_dashboard_without_delivery_status
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tantek.com edited /Bridgy_Fed (-3) "/* Activity in dashboard without delivery status */ more time for BF to deliver to lots of servers" (view diff)
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jacky.wtf edited /Shock (+1924) "add outline for collaborative editing, notes on native editors" (view diff)
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[tantek] [snarfed] tried posting a "new" post (same post, changed slug) and it showed up on Bridgy Fed as a new post (not update) and delivered to about the same number of servers, but still no visibility in tags pages e.g. https://indieweb.social/tags/microformats2
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[tantek] so that's one more data point.
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gRegor I don't see it on xoxo.zone either. Your last post is Feb 4th there.
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[tantek] yes same
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tantek.com edited /lost_sites (+120) "stalkscan./com" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /stalkscan.com (+126) "past tense, unlink dead domain" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /StalkScan (+27) "r proper name to domain" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /banner_image (+678) "add links to pages that feature each image, to be able to find them quickly in case we want to replace them, or change their usage, text etc. note also which banner images haven't been used on any pages" (view diff)
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gRegor I think events.indieweb.org edit notifications may not be working? Or delayed. I just updated today's and next HWC Pacific events.
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kaja.sknebel.net edited /User:Kaja.sknebel.net/upcoming-hwcs (+10) "update from events.indieweb.org" (view diff)
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aaronpk Oh no hmm
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Loqi [Event Updated] paulrobertlloyd.com updated "Mar 9 - 10, 2024 IndieWebCamp Brighton 2024" changed code_of_conduct_url, summary, description "Add description, link to code of conduct" https://events.indieweb.org/event/572/history/1590/diff
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Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Jan 31, 2024 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" changed description "+wiki notes" https://events.indieweb.org/event/566/history/1591/diff
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Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Jan 31, 2024 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" changed description "+wiki notes" https://events.indieweb.org/event/567/history/1592/diff
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Loqi [Event Updated] aaronparecki.com updated "Mar 9 - 10, 2024 IndieWebCamp Brighton 2024" changed tickets_url "add ticket url" https://events.indieweb.org/event/572/history/1593/diff
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Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Feb 7, 2024 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" changed description "+wiki notes" https://events.indieweb.org/event/568/history/1594/diff
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aaronpk huh
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Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Feb 14, 2024 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" changed description "fix etherpad link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/573/history/1595/diff
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Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Feb 28, 2024 6:00pm Homebrew Website Club - Pacific" changed description "fix etherpad link" https://events.indieweb.org/event/574/history/1596/diff
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aaronpk i hate computers sometimes
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Loqi computers has -1 karma over the last year
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gRegor lol computers--
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david.shanske.com edited /Planning (+69) "/* Sacramento, CA */" (view diff)
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gregorlove.com edited /Planning (+0) "/* Sacramento, CA */ fix dates" (view diff)
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theadhocracy.co.uk edited /2024/Brighton (+13) "/* In person */" (view diff)
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aaronpk [Paul_Robert_Ll]: I have no idea when the box will arrive but it's been a week or so already, any trace of it on your end yet?
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[Paul_Robert_Ll] Nope, nothing yet 😕 Do you have any tracking numbers at all?
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aaronpk yes but they said it will only track it in the US
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aaronpk looks like it made it to the LA international hub yesterday morning, so probably a while longer still
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aaronpk i think that's the last I will see of it on the tracking info
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[tantek] give it ~1 week after it leaves the US
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[tantek] then depending on customs 🤷‍♂️
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aaronpk i'm working on zoom notifications to chat when meetings start and people join
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aaronpk right now I have "Someone joined, there are now 4 people in the call"
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aaronpk I _could_ make it show the person's name that they enter when they join zoom, but I'm not sure if that would be good or bad
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aaronpk thoughts?
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capjamesg aaronpk Who is the user?
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aaronpk what do you mean?
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capjamesg For whom is this built?
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sknebel Individual join notifications feels a bit much
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capjamesg Organizers?
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aaronpk for this channel
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capjamesg I personally wouldn't find that information valuable.
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[tantek] I believe notifications about individual *in another space* than where the individual is would be surprising to most and unwelcome
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capjamesg We definitely shouldn't show anyone's names.
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[tantek] worse than "not valuable", I believe it would be a net negatie
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[tantek] negative* argh can't type. need that second espresso
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aaronpk what about using it to build the list of attendees that we put on the etherpad notes?
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capjamesg I think the best thing would be a notification that says HWC starts in 10 minutes, since that is an emerging behaviour that hosts practice and provides tangible value to the community.
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capjamesg aaronpk Some people may not want to list their attendance.
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capjamesg For many reasons.
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[tantek] ^ this kind of design (event about to start notification) something we can re-use from gCal, iOS calendar, any other calendar system that creates such notifications in text
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[tantek] like literally survey what they do / what text they show, pick the "best" among them, and mimic
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[tantek] I agree with capjamesg about manual entry into the Etherpad being a feature. That makes it by default culturally opt-in which I think is good. Not everyone may want to put their name on notes for a meeting.
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aaronpk sounds good
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[tantek] Linking from the Etherapd to the RSVPs on the Event could be a useful feature
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capjamesg I don't want us to log how many people attended HWC, either. To a new person, seeing that we are announcing there are 10 people in a call (a regular occurrence now) may be intimidating. Whereas when you join we're actually really welcoming.
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capjamesg That's why I asked who the user is 🙂
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[tantek] because the RSVPs on the Event are also opt-in
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[tantek] yet not replicating because RSVP != actually showing up
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[tantek] capjamesg that's a really good insight about number of people being intimidating
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[tantek] ironically some places use number of people attending as a popularity feature to try to attract more people. Look! There's hundreds of people listening to / viewing this live chat, you should too!
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aaronpk 10 minute heads up for events about to start should go to main channel not here, right?
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[tantek] good question
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[tantek] related to the "should we have a separate channel for live events" question
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aaronpk i feel like i see the reminder messages from people in the main channel right now
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[tantek] because it seems there is a hesitancy to use the main #indieweb channel for chat about/during HWC
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[KevinMarks] main channel makes sense if we're trying to encourage people to join in
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[tantek] there is a mismatch [KevinMarks]. maybe 5-10 people in a HWC vs 1000+ people in #indieweb
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[tantek] also there may already be some other topic being discussed in #indieweb that folks in HWC (politely) don't want to interrupt or barge into/over
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aaronpk would this hypothetical new channel also make sense to use during in-person events?
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[tantek] one of the Discords I am on has a separate dedicated "live-stream" channel for exactly this purpose, for chat during/about a live-stream
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[tantek] indeed
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aaronpk sounds like probably a good idea
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[tantek] wow we don't even have a Brainstorming section on /discuss
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aaronpk weird i thought we did
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[tantek] ok some of this has become disconnected from history
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aaronpk oh maybe part of the organizer meeting notes
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[tantek] discuss << [[rename_to_IndieWeb#non-log_based_IRC_chat_stuff]] — some past history about channel creation / naming that some of could be migrated into a History section here
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Loqi ok, I added "[[rename_to_IndieWeb#non-log_based_IRC_chat_stuff]] — some past history about channel creation / naming that some of could be migrated into a History section here" to the "See Also" section of /discuss https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=93267&oldid=93252
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aaronpk how did we end up with `#indieweb-chat` when we all -1'd it?? https://indieweb.org/rename_to_IndieWeb##indieweb-chat
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gRegor A Discord I'm in has a channel #voice-text-chat for when people are hanging out in the voice channel for an event. It works pretty well for dropping links, gif reactions, side-chat, and allows non-verbal people to participate.
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gRegor lol, that's funny on the votes. I don't recall xD
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gRegor Hm, done 2017-02-04 according to https://indieweb.org/2016/Organizers#Task_List
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gRegor Maybe some discussion in that several months interim not captured somewhere, or just in chat logs?
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[tantek] likely decided somewhere else, I feel same / similar time we added the #indieweb-wordpress channel
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[tantek] which is not mentioned on that page
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gRegor wordpress was https://indieweb.org/2017/Organizers#Discussion_Channels
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gRegor oh, and #indiechat mentioned a bit lower there. I have no memory of this, glad we document so well :)
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[tantek] a-ha! found the origins
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[tantek] aaronpk++ for 2014: https://indieweb.org/indiechat
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Loqi aaronpk has 39 karma in this channel over the last year (121 in all channels)
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[tantek] what is indiechat
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Loqi #indieweb-chat (formerly #indiechat) is an IRC channel on freenode.net for off-topic chat for the IndieWeb community https://indieweb.org/indiechat
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capjamesg It should go to #indieweb.
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capjamesg That's the channel we highlight most.
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capjamesg That's why I post the announcement in there.
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[tantek] ok let's start with that
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[tantek] and we can document problems as they emerge and if sufficient, explore a new channel
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[tantek] capjamesg, [Paul_Robert_Ll] I just rediscovered this which is relevant to your current interests: https://indieweb.org/indieweb.org#Brainstorming
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tantek.com edited /rename_to_IndieWeb (+519) "/* non-log based IRC chat stuff */ add conclusion and follow-up so folks who find this have a link trail to what happened next" (view diff)
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aaronpk ok let's see how this goes
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aaronpk too bad i missed yesterday's HWC deadline
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[tantek] what are we changing today?
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Loqi It looks like we don't have a page for "we changing today" yet. Would you like to create it? (Or just say "we changing today is ____", a sentence describing the term)
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[tantek] lol
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aaronpk event notifications
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aaronpk should be live now
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gregorlove.com created /we_changing_today (+19) "prompted by [tantek]" (view diff)
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[tantek] next time I live-stream espresso making I may be tempted to create a last minute (or perhaps 15min in advance) event for it to test that lol
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capjamesg [tantek] Impromptu Homebrew Coffee Club
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[tantek] Occasional Homebrew Yummy Espresso Streaming
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[tantek] I'll take it to #indieweb-chat for further brainstorming 🙂
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[tantek] [KevinMarks] I note that https://xoxo.zone/tags/indieweb doesn't show any results when logged out. is that a bug or server misconfiguration or deliberate or ... ?
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gRegor "401 Access Token Invalid" pops up in the bottom left. I think indieweb.social has done that for a while, not sure if it's a bug or what.
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gRegor er, xoxo.zone, not indieweb.social
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[tantek] it's a bug if it displays a summary of e.g. "41 posts · 38 participants · 6 posts today" and then errors out with a 401, repeatedly if you click the "Load More" button/link
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gRegor Yeah, underlying API is responding with that: https://xoxo.zone/api/v1/timelines/tag/indieweb
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[KevinMarks] not sure if that's deliberate by xoxo, or if it's a mastodon chnage
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sknebel I would assume that comes with authorized fetch
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loqi.me created /.af (+21) "prompted by gRegor and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /af (+21) "prompted by [tantek] and redirect added by [tantek]" (view diff)