#meta 2024-04-15
2024-04-15 UTC
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sarajaksa.eu edited /writing (+81) "Add Pablo's post to list of post describing their writing process" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /writing (+8) "/* ... add yourself ... */ upgrade principle phrase/link" (view diff)
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# tantek.com edited /April_Fools (+117) "Alternatives section from SA entry and an example" (view diff)
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Loqi [New Event] marksuth.dev created "Apr 17, 2024 7:00pm Homebrew Website Club Europe/London" https://events.indieweb.org/7hE0G9cShxRb
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# Loqi [New Event] artlung.com created "Apr 24, 2024 12:00pm Front End Study Hall" https://events.indieweb.org/FHS5M2AofkU4
# Loqi [Event Updated] artlung.com updated "Apr 24, 2024 12:00pm Front End Study Hall" changed description https://events.indieweb.org/event/592/history/1651/diff
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[tantek] ^ sounds like we might need that indieweb-frontend channel stat! [Joe_Crawford] can you add your +1/0/-1 to the options here? https://indieweb.org/discuss#web_making_channel
# Loqi [Event Updated] artlung.com updated "Apr 24, 2024 12:00pm Front End Study Hall" changed description https://events.indieweb.org/event/592/history/1652/diff
# [Joe_Crawford] Will do [tantek]. I'll weigh in. Thanks for the remimnder!
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# [Joe_Crawford] [gRegorLove] yeah, I will need a proper Zoom link. I do have a Zoom account myself but I'd prefer to use IWC's
# [Joe_Crawford] I don't think I added a zoom link is there one there?
# [Joe_Crawford] ☕ is good. so as we get closer I'll need that thing to have a zoom link and I think an etherpad link.
# [Joe_Crawford] Other than that if there are omissions I'm open to editing. Thanks!
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gRegor Etherpads are just created on demand when you access the URL, e.g. https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2024-04-24-front-end-study-hall
# Loqi [Event Updated] gregorlove.com updated "Apr 24, 2024 12:00pm Front End Study Hall" changed description "+discussion and notes" https://events.indieweb.org/event/592/history/1653/diff
# [tantek] gRegor WDYT about #indieweb-frontend as a place for that sort of discussion in chat (complementary to Front End Study Hall, and deep diving on topics like https://chat.indieweb.org/dev/2024-04-13#t1713035423392300 ) ?
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# [Al_Abut] (Look behind the curtains, that’s me pushing to kill off the indieweb- prefix)
# [Ros] [tantek]: I’m curious to hear your answer: what do you think is so important about getting folks to *create* their own site? (apart from owning your content etc.) What do you think is so powerful in making and maintaining your own site opposed to learning to be aware of closed curtain companies?
# [tantek] [Ros] it's beyond creating, it's also feeling empowered to edit & update! e.g. even if a friend sets up a simple HTML+CSS static site for someone, either personal or for a business like a restaurant, it's hugely liberating for that someone to be able to go in an edit and change content, perhaps add content and minimal markup, without having to depend on another
# [tantek] right gRegor, no need to put "indieweb" twice in URLs we use 🙂 except /IndieWeb and /IndieWebCamp of course 😂
# [Ros] [tantek] I’m glad to hear you say it like that about the empowerment. Because as I’m learning more from a developer perspective of how the web has formed, I realise I - like so many others - have grown up seeing the web more like a place to spectate. A whole new world opens up when you realise it grows from us all shaping it, and that we can take part.
# [Ros] (haha, you can tell I’ve been having some exploding moments in my mind from all this reading but it’s inspired me to no end - I’ve organised to create my own online bootcamp with my sister over the next four months. We are both going to try and study fulltime using the boundless resources. I really want to figure out this coding)
# [Joe_Crawford] gRegor++ for finishing touches to Front End Study Hall!
# [Al_Abut] [Ros]++ for her energy and curiosity. It’s inspiring! Your name came up quite a few times in our coffee chat.
# [Al_Abut] Your “thinking out loud as I explore this fun new thing” is paving good ideas for how to make the web welcoming for others too.
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# [Ros] [Al_Abut]: You are so kind - honestly, I feel so lucky be here. This group, the philosophy, the nerdy stuff everyone is into, the empowerment is what I’m all about! I’ve just mostly followed these interests on my own, and lurked around the Indie Web but it never occurred to me I could actually learn to code.
# [Ros] Haha, you can tell I don’t do things by halves and once I got here and can see in the bigger picture what IW is about, I was just like “I’m in”. I really really want to code so that’s why I’ve decided to rejig my life and sacrifice freelance work to study online.
# [Ros] I’m (literally this moment) working through the MDN Web Docs (as I can’t fix my damn grid or float element 😭 ) but once I actually get a site up, I think one of the best things I could write is an explanation to the clueless people (like I was) about what happens when you click “Accept all” to those cookies. I was thinking how I could show this in visuals. As until I could understand from under the hood, I just did not get it. And n
# [Ros] it’s one of the most important things we can understand in shaping the web.
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# [Ros] @to2ds: A world of wondorous plastic items filling your home from brim to brim, and a billboard for”Insert , worn on YOUR chest
# [Ros] I love my NetNewsWire (so proud of my Indie roots in that I found this on my own due to me wish to have a clean based on what I wanted to find), but I need to make it my default hangout place, over search, as it’s cookie free, and such a better place to be anyway.
# [Ros] In my baby coder mentor groups, it pains me when someone helping me will take over my browser to help me find things and proceed to click “Accep all” on all the pages. I think nooooooo
# [Ros] “legitimate interest” from our 486 casual mates
# [Ros] I think 30 min of my day goes to clicking “reject all”. Sometimes life feels like a roundabout of untoggling. As even the same site you’ve visited, you have to reaffirm that nope, still don’t want your cookies
# [Ros] I agree [qubyte] I doubt they honour it!
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# [Ros] haha
# [Ros] Sometimes I’ve absent-mindedly clicked on http://healthline.com links. I find them the most honest as once you reject cookies, they redirect you to a page saying you can’t access their page w/o cookies because basically tracking you is the only reason they exist. So at least it’s honest!
# [Ros] Well actually, I think they remove EVERYTHING from the site an leave the text. So it’s like browsng in the 1990s. But I have always bounced at that point
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# [Al_Abut] Hey [Ros] - what are your “baby code mentoring groups” if you feel comfortable sharing?
# [Ros] [Al_Abut] of course! In Brighton, there are AMAZING support groups. I realise how fortunate this is so I’m doing everything I can. I go to https://codebar.io/ which supports “minority groups” (I qualify as being a girl, haha) with 1-1 mentoring.
# [Ros] I have a friend who every 2nd week runs a group to just hang out an code, so I go to that.
# [Ros] Right now I’m working my way through MDN Web Docs (thanks [tantek]!)
# [Ros] https://codefirstgirls.com/ runs sponsored training again for girls. I don’t seem to fit any of their plans so I just looks up intensive courses on Udemy and my sister (who is way more techinically minded than me and can code) is doing courses with me online.
# [Ros] ↩️ It’s an 8th wonder of the world!
# [Ros] It might just be where I live but there seems to be *so* much free support for women wanting to learn to code. I’ve been in arts/advertising all my life and never seen such open encouraging doors. I am jumping on all of it!
# [Ros] Heck yeah - I do see that that’s the role I can play. I’m from a film/arts background and I’m into specifically Indie Web. I wana show more and more friends why this is ace.
# [Ros] One of my besties is a musical theatre singer and when I told him what I cared about he set up a site an started sharing his poetry. It’s so cool.
# [Ros] I don’t know where I’m going with this but I think my newbie background could help in just knowing what I could help ppl see is possible if we can all have control over putting our voice on the web.
# [Ros] What I want to get across is how influential the web has been in developing humanity, and this all came from a great act of generosity at a time that someone could have just seen $$ in their eyes and taken things in another direction. But they didn’t! And it’s changed the world, and SO MANY of the original creators are still alive and with us today. To me that is just incredible. We actually have so much power here if we can wake up from b
# [Ros] consumers to creators
# [Al_Abut] Love everything about this
# [Al_Abut] So glad I asked
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[aciccarello] Ros++
# [Al_Abut] Your story about the theater geek friend m confirms something I heard [tantek] say over coffee that I’d never considered before and that seems so obvious now - a lot of people’s first website might be one that someone else made and they want to edit directly, or just be inspired indirectly to make something similar.
# [Joe_Crawford] There's precent for hobbyist groups to inspire, help and empower. I think of the Homebrew Computer Club in the Bay Area in the 1970s-1980s. WebGrrls is the earliest example I can think of for women-focused events: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliza_Sherman#Webgrrls - in San Diego we had a chapter of that, which branched off into other orgs: Techniquelle and digitElle, lost to history, alas. But 20 years later Women Who Code
# [Joe_Crawford] https://womenwhocode.com has a chapter here with a semi-active Slack. I attended several of their online events during the pandemic and was at I think 1 event in person they put on. Good groups. Events and orgs that harness collective effort for learning are great. Event discovery is the tricky thing. At one time any metro would have a newspaper or some physical thing with an event listing that would passively do outreach. These days
# [Joe_Crawford] with a group, there _may_ be some group doing it. But finding it may be tricky.
# [Joe_Crawford] everyone is hyping in individual spots and hustling and there's no one good source to do discovery. For a while it seemed like http://Meetup.com would fill that role but their model requiring payment--even for nascent orgs--priced people who wanted to do things exploratorily (is that a word) ruined that. http://Upcoming.org was terrific for event discovery but went south after it was acquired. But if you have a thing you want to do
# [Joe_Crawford] There's _precendent. Argh. Probably a million other typos ^ above too. Oops._
# [Ros] I also feel an amazing series would be to interview the layers of original creators about key decisions they made in how they develop code and released it and capture _why_ they did it that way. It’s incredible to see such vast change and have so many of them here with us.
# [Joe_Crawford] PRECEDENT.
# [Al_Abut] [Ros] oh! Why didn’t I think of this before. The computer history museum in Mountain View also archives historical videos, that might be another rabbit hole on this. I feel like some of those early web talks help connect to computing history in general.
# [Al_Abut] In entertainment terms you might appreciate, it feels like there’s a missing gap between the Halt And Catch Fire era of the 80’s and the Social Network era of the early 2000’s.
# [Al_Abut] The closest thing I can think of is that 90’s documentary about Netscape: https://youtu.be/4Q7FTjhvZ7Y?si=ZX0Z9Arr6LIatRPu
# [Al_Abut] I haven’t watched it in years, I can’t remember if it’s more about startups and the nascent IPO scene than the web itself.
# Loqi Twitter is a popular content hosting silo that started with short plain text notes in 2006 and over time added auto-linking URLs, @-names, replies, photo & video posts, and much more https://indieweb.org/Twitter
# [Ros] There might be something in this…Jay’s book really has impacted me this weekend. It’s like I got to stand outside the walls of something i’ve been inside of, and see it from a new perspective. I think as a non-developer, I didn’t realise how much I saw the web as this passive TV screen to consume so I sort of assumed companies just showed up and told me how things would be and just gave them my attention.
# [Ros] I’ve been into philosophy and consciousness for a long time which is why I naturally ended up digging around weird indie corners, but I still felt like a spectator. Then when I heard Jay’s book, I was just like WOW, we are making this together and it’s an amalgamation of knowledge, community and compassion. And I realise so many key people who made decisions were trying to create that.
# [Ros] And then I’m amazed realising some of the names I heard are in this group! It feels like we get to touch a poignant part of history in this moment. I wish I could bundle up this original intention of the web and remind my peers that this came from people just like us, but less dozy. And if I could show them I learned to code, that they can do this too and it’s an empowering as learning to write.
# gRegor And heyy, there's our own jacky suggesting IndieAuth :) https://github.com/upcoming/upcoming-www/issues/50
# [Ros] Haha, I’m having like a brain explosion over here, haha
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[qubyte] What is http://upcoming.org?
# Loqi Upcoming.org is a social event sharing silo https://indieweb.org/Upcoming.org
# gRegor Hey hey, forgot I posted our early HWC SD events there: https://upcoming.org/event/homebrew-website-club-ltsuimaln6
# [aciccarello] I ran into the same issue last week [qubyte]
# [Joe_Crawford] Gotta get the word out
# [aciccarello] I was confused why it said that an event from 2019 was upcoming 😆
# [Joe_Crawford] In my blog post for the Study Hall event I made sure to include the year when I talk about it because I know how disappointed I've been to find some awesome event online that seems really neat and I'm reading all about it only to discover the year is in the past.