#meta 2024-12-10

2024-12-10 UTC
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tantek.com edited /Known (+138) "move a bunch to history, put direct links to docs and code right at the top, fix dfn wording/puncts a bit, Features section at top, separating bundled vs plugins" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Known (+25) "Previous Examples subhead" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /recommendation (+12) "lists are often used for recommendations" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024/SD (+190) "+ another post by chrisaldrich, explicitly note blog for easier section findability" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Medium (+0) "/* Features */ link a longer phrase" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /generated_recommendations (+35) "r" (view diff)
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tantek.com deleted /recommendations "content was: "#REDIRECT[[recommendation_engine]]", delete to make an actual content page on the topic"
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tantek.com created /recommendations (+256) "stub a new page with a dfn and see also, since we had plenty of discussion on this at the camp this weekend" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /recommendations (+314) "stub IndieWeb Examples" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /recommendations (+544) "stub a brainstorming section with Minimal semantic HTML CSS" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /recommendations (+127) "Sessions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2024-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+35) "yesterday's gift, new recommendations wiki page based on IWC SD discussions and projects" (view diff)
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[mattl] IMO Gemini isn’t the web and feels like a technical exercise more than a realistic thing for people to use on personal domain names?
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[tantek] is RSS "the web"? or twtxt?
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[tantek] Gemini feels at least indieweb-adjacent, in source (a bunch of independents), and motivations (the list is highly aligned, e.g. if you read the article that was recently posted)
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[mattl] I believe Firefox and other browsers just read RSS files. A user can’t click a genini link without installing some extra software.
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[Joe_Crawford] The `protocol://` is the difference.
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[tantek] yeah the protocol vs format is an interesting discussion
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[Joe_Crawford] Was FTP the web?
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] yes if you read TimBL's interpretation 🙂
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[Joe_Crawford] I think it's muddy! Like I think `mailto:` is *kind* of part of the web
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[Joe_Crawford] It's where "the internet" which "the web" sits on and so siblings like email or ftp or `news://` (RIP usenet) are close personal friends of the web.
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[tantek] the point of URL was to provide a way to link between documents regardless of profile: ftp, gopher, http
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[tantek] regardless of protocol*
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[tantek] he deliberately designed it to work with existing protocols so that it provided a point of unity
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[Joe_Crawford] Right. Still, I have avoided discussions like this (until now?) because I have sympathy for both points of view. If I have to install extra jazz it feels less *of the web*
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[tantek] mailto: is borderline because it causes an action rather than shows a resoiurce
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[tantek] resource*
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[tantek] similarly tel: fax:
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[Joe_Crawford] Sure
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] indeed, the routing of different protocols to different apps was supposed to be an operating system feature, so you didn't have to depend on browsers to implement all the protocols
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[Joe_Crawford] And there are situations where there is no tel: to tel: to. And locked down browsers which can't do email. Like in an internet cafe.
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[tantek] we have a similar challenge with all the chat/IM protocols
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[tantek] [Joe_Crawford] more such protocols: https://tantek.com/2014/084/b1/urls-people-focused-mobile-communication 🙂
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[tantek] Also browsers dropped support for gopher and ftp URLs
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[tantek] There's too high a barrier now to add new protocols to anything "web-like". Look at IPFS for example.
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Loqi [preview] [Tantek Çelik] URLs For People Focused Mobile Communication
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[mattl] Another thing that happened early on was that people wrote proxies for stuff so you view those things via HTTP.
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[Joe_Crawford] (joe pokes at the sad corpse of gopher)
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[tantek] [mattl] yeah I feel most people view IPFS through an HTTPS proxy
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[mattl] Gopher died because it was proprietary and weirdly licensed
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[tantek] Gopher died because University of Minnesota managers 🤝 their lawyers
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[mattl] Gemini through a proxy is fine too. I just don’t want a bunch of links that are useless to most people
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[Joe_Crawford] `wais:`
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[tantek] right
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[tantek] lol
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[mattl] Thanks to WAIS we have http://archive.org but we also have Alexa spying on kids :/
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[Joe_Crawford] I LOVE AN OLD MAN CHAT LIKE THIS
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[Joe_Crawford] But yes, things *ought* to become the web.
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[mattl] I could literally have this conversation all day every day for the rest of my life. In fact that’s what I want to do.
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[Joe_Crawford] Things *want* to become the web. Or rather, browsers are so useful their utility drives things which are not http to become http
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[Joe_Crawford] things like rtsp streams
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[Joe_Crawford] [mattl] Our lives are nothing but networks and how we talk to each other and share and take across them.
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[mattl] Pretty much
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gRegor what is gemini
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Loqi Gemini may refer to Google Gemini, an LLM tool like ChatGPT, or for developers, the Gemini protocol, an alternative to HTTP https://indieweb.org/Gemini
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gRegor what is gemini protocol
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Loqi The Gemini protocol is an alternative to HTTP with similar use-cases, with intentional consideration of privacy and security, that could be an alternative way to serve an IndieWeb site https://indieweb.org/Gemini_protocol
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gRegor May not be captured on there, but I think we have a couple community regulars who make some of their posts available on that ^
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gRegor Though yes, I would encourage people to put http(s) links in chat instead of gemini://
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[tantek] ^
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gregorlove.com edited /recommendations (+60) "/* IndieWeb Examples */ +date, addyourself" (view diff)
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loqi.me created /Haunt (+136) "prompted by [mattl] and dfn added by [mattl]" (view diff)
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[mattl] gRegor: exclusively on Gemini or both the web and gemini?
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gRegor I think some of it was exclusive. I'd need to search past HWC notes, it was somewhere in there.
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bluehome.net csh edited /Haunt (+397) "Expand page" (view diff)
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[tantek] Breakfast and Coffee << needs updating with Internet Archive links for the defunct domain / URLs
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Loqi ok, I added "needs updating with Internet Archive links for the defunct domain / URLs" to the "See Also" section of /Breakfast_and_Coffee https://indieweb.org/wiki/index.php?diff=98968&oldid=94006
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[tantek] capjamesg[d], is the source / content for Breakfast and Coffee available for anyone else to pick up and build something?
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tantek.com edited /User:Tantek.com (+155) "local efforts, link a page to dump some venue-category-emojis thoughts" (view diff)
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tantek.com created /User:Tantek.com/venue-category-emojis (+867) "stub with emojis for Berlin venue recommendations categories" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I have a bit of private source code but it's not the most resilient in the world; I didn't write it with open source in mind. I think the idea is maybe the most important part of its legacy 😊
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[tantek] Makes sense. I think post Foursquare there will be another opportunity to rethink things like that as a replacement
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