#meta 2025-12-02

2025-12-02 UTC
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tantek.com created /2025/SD/Sessions (+3328) "draft from extracting session ideas from the section on 2025/SD" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2025/SD () "(-2792) move Session ideas to their own page, they've grown enough for that" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2025/SD/Sessions (+43) "cat iwc sd 2025" (view diff)
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[tantek] ^ well that's one for today, even if minor!
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tantek.com edited /2025-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+36) "2025/SD/Sessions page for today!" (view diff)
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[tantek] ^ minor but it's only the 1st. gotta start somewhere! more contributions welcome!
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tantek.com created /2026-01-01-commitments (+858) "clone from 2025" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2025-01-01-commitments (+0) "fix a remaining copy/pasta" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2025-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+43) "+ 2026-01-01-commitments draft for today" (view diff)
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osteophage.neocities.org edited /large_language_model_traffic (+0) "moved Iocaine from See Also to Tools to Combat" (view diff)
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rossabaker.com edited /large_language_model_traffic (+457) "rossabaker uses Iocaine" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2025/SD/Sessions (+5) "cat 2025 sessions" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /2011/Sessions (-69) "no previous years sessions, see also" (view diff)
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cupparex [tantek]: I'd like to help with https://indieweb.org/Getting_Started It hasn't been that long since I went through the information. I think what would help is to leave the intro and pull out each section into a different page, and then link to each step from the getting started page. That page is sooo overwhelming, but if it were used as a hub, linking to other pages, it'd be a lot easier to follow and work through for a newbie
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[tantek] So I kinda disagree with the multi page approach
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[tantek] I think that actually is more discouraging
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[tantek] Like wow how many things do I need to click into and out of to get started?
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[tantek] A flat page that someone can skim and jump around to get an idea first, an overview, is much more usable / readable by default
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[tantek] Think about how annoying it is when you're reading a blog post and you get to the bottom of the page and realize oh darn I have to click 2-3 more pages?
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[tantek] Click thru rates on that's sort of thing suck tbh
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[tantek] So not only do I think a multipage approach like that would not help, I think it would be actively harmful for the simplest possible "get started"
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[tantek] Have you looked at the page lately? Osteophage has already done a very good job of simplifying it and removing a bunch of cruft recently
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[tantek] Osteophage++
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Loqi Osteophage has 7 karma in this channel over the last year (23 in all channels)
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cupparex ok, no problem. It was just a thought. I didn't mean just links. Like a short intro and then a link to the actual steps, but I get your point too.
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[tantek] No I get there are many ways to do multi pages like that and frankly anything that interrupts the "flow" means you lose people
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[tantek] Gotta keep it simple and flat especially for beginners
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cupparex When I joined, I just remember how overhwhelming it all was and I was just trying to think of a way to make that less so.
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[tantek] Our home page is the "short intro" already
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[tantek] When you joined the page was much larger
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[tantek] We still need different paths for "get started as a" user (turnkey solutions), CMS expert, static site builder, developer who wants to put together their own custom setup
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cupparex Yeah, the homepage is great. Although where the chat is linked to, I think I'd be good to also link to the discuss page because it gives people coming into chat more information about the expectations and kind of the way things are done.
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[tantek] Where is that exactly?
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[tantek] Which page are you saying should link to /discuss? Because the home page and chat archives already do
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[tantek] And get started already does too
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[tantek] Every page also does in the sidebar
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cupparex frong page, join indieweb section
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cupparex it links right to irc chat
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cupparex [edit] front page, join indieweb section
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[tantek] That's deliberate, again to avoid making people jump through an extra hoop
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cupparex ok, np.
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[tantek] So people can trivially click ONCE and immediately see there is something going on
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[tantek] Forcing people to do extra steps mean you lose people
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[tantek] This is UX 101
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cupparex I I just meant beside it. Maybe with a statement of what to expect from the community. But I do understand not wanting to muddy it up. I was just speaking from my experience when I joined. Things opened up a lot when I found some of those other pages.
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[tantek] That said, the bottom of the chat archives where it says "Join chat" doesn't provide any code of conduct or other context so we should provide that up front (before you join please agree etc)
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cupparex yes, any context, maybe a lil info would be enough. Something so it's not blind.
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cupparex [tantek]: I can help with a path for someone with wordpress experience, but as somoene who knows minimal html. 🙂
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cupparex Anyway, was just looking to see what I could help with for the Calendar 🙂
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[tantek] We used to have a bunch of Wordpress setup tutorials but no one maintained them so they became out of date and useless to new folks :(
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[tantek] Part of the challenge here for anything "get started" is that either the content has to be "evergreen" (never goes out of date), or it must be created in such a way that multiple people can *easily* maintain and update it
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[tantek] Every time someone has put in a lot of effort for a "beautiful" tutorial, no one else has maintained it, so it's withered, become inaccurate, and died
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cupparex I can see how that can happen very easily. When I follow a tutorial I have no problem digging for info and replacements. I think that's part of owning your own site, gotta be willing to dig for things you need. I just don't think beginners are always willing to do it. I've worked with Wordpress for a long time, but jumping into webmentions and IndieAuth were new territory. Part of my problem is there was so much information I
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cupparex I'll think about it and see if there's anything I can contribute here. Thanks for talking this out with me.
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[tantek] We definitely need more WordPress specific "how to", perhaps even shorter simple "how to" pages dedicated to each feature like you said, IndieAuth, Webmentions
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cupparex The one hoop for WordPress users (speaking as one lol) is that a lot of us are so used to grabbing a plugin and boom it's done. I'd never messed around in the theme files or cpanel as much as I did, but it taught me so much, and I'm way more comfortable now. And I can't tell you how much I've learned so far. Which is amazing.
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[tantek] I feel from what I've heard there's lots of hoops for WordPress users. I think you may find it helpful to ask specifically about what can be improved on pages for "how tos" for WordPress users in the #indieweb-wordpress channel where a broader range of WordPress users hangout.
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[tantek] See what people in #indieweb-wordpress think are the biggest pain points for existing WordPress users getting started on IndieWeb features and improvements for their sites
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capjamesg CuppaRex[d] I have also enjoyed writing tutorials on my own website and sharing / linking to them where relevant. I find this especially useful if I have just finished doing something and want it written down for others. If it's a tutorial about the IndieWeb, it can still go on the gift calendar!
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cupparex I will do. Of course I have my own list too 🙂
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capjamesg Yay!
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Loqi 😊
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cupparex capjamesg[d]: Thank you. I had planned to do that some (I took some notes) so maybe I'll start there instead of the wiki.
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capjamesg Yeah! I have lost track of the number of times I have only been able to do something because someone blogged a tutorial.
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cupparex I'm planning to test the cornerstone theme on a new site in the new year, so I'll have a lil experience with two different ones
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cupparex that are geared toward indieweb
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cupparex capjamesg[d]: you and me both!
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[tantek] Yes absolutely blogging tutorials on your own site very much count as contributions to the gift calendar! They have their own emoji too 📜
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capjamesg reacted with 🙌 to <CuppaRex[d]> that are geared toward indieweb
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[tantek] Could we get Loqi to react to old school IRC commands that make it thru to the chat? Eg from the web UI presumably
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[tantek] Eg the /help we just saw in #indieweb
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www.ciccarello.me created /telemetry (+2142) "stub page" (view diff)
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www.ciccarello.me edited /analytics (+16) "/* See Also */ add telemetry" (view diff)
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[tantek] What is telemetry?
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Loqi telemetry is the collection and reporting of application usage discussed for possible use in Omnibear or other Indieweb community projects https://indieweb.org/telemetry
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[tantek] aciccarello++ yeah! Now add /telemetry to the gift calendar! Thank you!
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Loqi aciccarello has 6 karma in this channel over the last year (26 in all channels)
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www.ciccarello.me edited /2025-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (-162) "add telemetry page" (view diff)
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[tantek] -167? oh no, aciccarello did you edit an older revision of the wiki page? looks like some content was inadvertently removed ^
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[tantek] -162*
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[aciccarello] Oh, I think I accidentally did 😱
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[aciccarello] I didn't realize that was even possible
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tantek.com edited /Template:aciccarello (+5) "nbsp to stick icon to name" (view diff)
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www.ciccarello.me edited /2025-12-indieweb-gift-calendar (+39) "re-add telemetry" (view diff)
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tantek.com edited /Template:aciccarello (+22) "try nowrap instead since that works in my template" (view diff)
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[aciccarello] I think that should be good?
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[tantek] looks good! thank you!
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gRegor [tantek], cupparex, I recently added a github issue for the webchat suggesting adding a topic/welcome: https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/issues/69
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david.shanske.com edited /2025/SD/Sessions (+298) (view diff)
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[capjamesg] For some reason Olu's message didn't come through the Discord bridge aaronpk.
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[tantek] huh, not in the chat archives either: https://chat.indieweb.org/2025-12-02#bottom — so something blocked it from Slack -> IRC ?
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[tantek] [aaronpk] might have to check #indieweb in Slack vs https://chat.indieweb.org/2025-12-02 for today and see the delta
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[tantek] wonder if the brackets in their slack name "[olu]" is causing a problem with the bridge because wouldn't the bridge try to add brackets like "[[olu]]" when sending it to IRC? Or is the bridge accidentally not bridging the message because it sees brackets in the name?
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tantek.com edited /discuss (+43) "add explicit code of conduct to first time CTAs" (view diff)
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[tantek] gRegor, thanks for the issue. suggested PR with minor text/link additions to resolve: https://github.com/indieweb/chat.indieweb.org/pull/70
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aaronpk I believe the latter
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aaronpk Or maybe not, I might have switched it to look at the bot username instead
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loqi.me created /Google_Antigravity (+215) "prompted by [tantek] and dfn added by [tantek]" (view diff)
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loqi.me edited /Google_Antigravity (+52) "[tantek] added "[[Wikipedia:Google Antigravity]]" to "See Also"" (view diff)
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gRegor what is google antigravity
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Loqi Google Antigravity is one way of accidentally deleting your local hard drive https://indieweb.org/Google_Antigravity
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gregorlove.com edited /Google_Antigravity (+302) "Criticism section, +archive.is link, +YouTube link" (view diff)
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[aciccarello] https://node.microformats.io/ seems to be down
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[aciccarello] Do we know who runs that heroku account?
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aaronpk it's on the indiewebcamp heroku account
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aaronpk as far as who knows how it actually works, that's a different story :P
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[aciccarello] Hasn't been touched in 2 years probably https://github.com/microformats/microformats-parser-website-node
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[tantek] what is heroku
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Loqi Heroku is a platform as a service (PaaS) that supports Ruby, Java, Node.js, Scala, Clojure, Python, PHP and others, was acquired by Salesforce in 2010, and is used by a number of IndieWeb sites and projects https://indieweb.org/Heroku
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[aciccarello] That repo could probably use some version bumps anyhow
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[tantek] aaronpk, can we traceback from the DNS setup of node.microformats back to figuring out which Heroku account to try to document that bit of community infra?
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[tantek] maybe it was a veganstraightedge setup back in the day?
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gRegor I believe he did the initial setup, but it's the indiewebcamp Heroku account as of some time in the last several years.
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gRegor I think we were looking to maybe move away from Heroku with their pricing change, but eventually got it under an "open source" plan (or whatever their terminology is)
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gRegor what is heroku
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Loqi Heroku is a platform as a service (PaaS) that supports Ruby, Java, Node.js, Scala, Clojure, Python, PHP and others, was acquired by Salesforce in 2010, and is used by a number of IndieWeb sites and projects https://indieweb.org/Heroku
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gRegor some info https://github.com/microformats/microformats-parser-website-php/issues/10
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Loqi [preview] [aaronpk] #10 Deploy updated version to php.microformats.io
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gRegor did it manually that time, but shane said: "If you moved this repo to /indieweb (and say, renamed it to microformats-parser-website-php), I could hookup the auto deploy on Heroku.
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gRegor "
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gRegor oh missed the last message, audo deploys did get set up
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gRegor *auto
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[aciccarello] I'm wondering if the node parser is just out of date. It currently requires something like node 17
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[aciccarello] I'm putting together an update PR
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gRegor Ah, also https://github.com/microformats/microformats.io/issues/71
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Loqi [preview] [aaronpk] #71 Move parser subdomain hosting off of Heroku
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gRegor good job past me (omg 2018) https://github.com/microformats/microformats.io/issues/19
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Loqi [preview] [gRegorLove] #19 Document how to deploy the subdomains
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gRegor hahah
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gRegor Wait, I think I got turned around from the chat. The website-node repo has deployment details in the readme
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[aciccarello] Created a PR: https://github.com/microformats/microformats-parser-website-node/pull/12
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Loqi [preview] [aciccarello] #12 bump versions to mf2@2.0.4, node 24, and remove undici
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[aciccarello] That would merge to next and then we'd need a release PR to merge to main.
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[aciccarello] Theoretically that would trigger deployment. I assume heroku will pick up the new node version.
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gRegor I don't really know node so can't comment on that. I think the version needs to be updated in package.json though. "Bump the version in package.json to x.y.z"
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gRegor I'm a bit confused on the readme. First line says "The base branch is next. All PRs should target this branch.
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gRegor " but then the bullets have "Merge release/x.y.z to main. This will trigger the deployment." followed by merging main into next.
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[aciccarello] Version bumped
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[aciccarello] I think the point is that next is where all PRs go but merging to main is when a release should be triggered
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[aciccarello] Looks like there was supposed to be some version updates in a PR from a few years ago that never got merged
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gRegor Ah gotcha, sort of a `dev` branch of pre-release
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gRegor Though if so that feels like it should be `PR -> next -> main (which deploys)`. It reads to me like `PR -> main (which deploys) -> next`.
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[tantek] aciccarello WDYT of the previous PR that's been waiting there and did you try using/merging it before you wrote yours? https://github.com/microformats/microformats-parser-website-node/pull/10
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Loqi [preview] [aimee-gm] #10 Require Base URL & handle parser errors