#microformats 2012-07-26

2012-07-26 UTC
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tantek edited /hcard-input-examples (+34913) "/* person billing shipping input */ American Eagle" (view diff)
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tantek edited /irc (+1236) "/* Logs */ /invite krijnh #microformats if krijnh is not in the channel to keep his logs going, add logbot.glob link" (view diff)
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@divshot HTML5 & microformats 2 http://t.co/m32UBUNC
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twisted` hi, anyone here familiar with implementing rich-snippets or whaddayamightcall it into existing websites?
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@FreeWSOdownload Free download: WSO - WP Author hReview (Plugin) http://t.co/7QX9U90f
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twisted` I want to implement the Product Schema into an existing webshop
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tantek twisted`: yes, you can implement hProduct into an existing webshop
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twisted` yeah I got it working quite ok by now actually
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twisted` lot more work then I hoped but that's due to the webshop's templating
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twisted` :)
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tantek some methods take more work than others too
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twisted` what I don't fully get
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twisted` is I implemented name, manufacturer, offers (with a price) and description
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tantek with the hProduct microformat, you just need to add a few class names. in contrast with microdata/schema or RDFa, you have to add a bunch more attributes (and sometimes more divs/spans also)
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twisted` but using the Google Preview it just shows the price
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twisted` it does recognise the rest
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twisted` I can PM you the preview URL
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tantek ok
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twisted` don't want to spam this channel with my webshop's url
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tantek no that's ok, you can share it in the channel if you're ok with it
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twisted` it seems to extract the info properly but it doesn't do anything with it
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twisted` or I don't really get it yet :D
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twisted` k brb gotta walk my dog
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tantek twisted` I think it has to do with the complexity of using multiple schema type objects in one page. take a look at hProduct and see if that markup is simpler: http://microformats.org/wiki/hproduct
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tantek and see also Google's description of their hProduct support here: http://support.google.com/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=186036
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twisted` hmm I thought I was using the same format
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twisted` ok I'll look into it
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twisted` afaik I took everything from: http://www.schema.org/Product as an example
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tantek hProduct is a bit simpler, and only requires adding to the class attribute see that last link for a comparison and the hProduct spec for example markup.
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tantek go
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tantek t
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tantek got to go for now - will be back later - but give hProduct a try with class="…" attributes rather than all the item**** attributes and report back how it works or with any questions about hProduct.
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tantek ttyl!
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twisted` thanks!
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mohit.seth edited /hresume-examples-in-wild (+146) "/* New Examples */" (view diff)
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undecim in hCard, I need either 'fn' *OR* 'n', not both?
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tantek or both
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tantek you always need fn
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undecim Alright. Just seemed silly to have the name twice, though I guess fn is sort of like the preferred way to have a name written?
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undecim And then 'n' is for a sematically strucutred name?
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tantek no you can use the same markup on the name once
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tantek see the examples
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tantek e.g. http://microformats.org/wiki/hcard-authoring#The_Importance_of_Names
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tantek 'n' is for marking up the individual components of a name, which can also be used in sequence for how the name is displayed, and thus the whole thing can be wrapped in an 'fn'
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twisted` tantek: to respond to what you said earlier, using class="" seems to be impractical for my certain usage
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twisted` it would have a chance of class collision in naming
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twisted` and want to prevent that
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tantek a-ha - good to know
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undecim tantek: OIC. Thanks
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tantek yes that confirms some feedback we received
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tantek a
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tantek nd
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tantek
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twisted` tantek: also I don't see how I'm mixing two specs? afaik I'm just using http://www.schema.org/Product
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tantek we've fixed things in microformats2 accordingly
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tantek to avoid class collisisons
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tantek collisions even
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tantek you have two itemtypes in your code
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twisted` hmm I only implemented one
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twisted` maybe the other one is already in the webshop stuff
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twisted` tantek: or which other one am I using?
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tantek I saw two itemtype on the page
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twisted` according to Google it has MICROFORMAT (no idea where it pulls those from tbfh) and MICRODATA (what I supplied)
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tantek interesting
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twisted` also the 'fn' it refers to doesn't exist in the sourcecode
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twisted` tantek: or do you mean, I am using schema.org/Product and schema.org/Offer ?
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twisted` I thought both had to be used together?
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tantek it's odd - I'm not sure how you're supposed to use them together
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tantek we took a different approach with microformats, that is, with hListing
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tantek which encapsulates the offering information, and as part of it can include an hProduct inside
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twisted` I can try to use hProduct
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twisted` but just find the classes a bit... meh
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tantek which classes collide for you?
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twisted` not sure yet but there's bound to be one
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tantek are you a developer or designer?
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twisted` developer :)
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twisted` but modifying existing code
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twisted` cause I want to keep the template as close as possible to the stock
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tantek ok got it - so you want to be more conservative
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twisted` to insure upgrades are possible
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twisted` and adding some -extra- spans here and there
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twisted` is something that you can easily add/remove
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twisted` but I'll dupe my current file and make a hProduct one, see if I get more luck there :)
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tantek it's interesting - most designer prefer *not* using extra spans - because it clutters up the markup
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twisted` uh... I can't think of any reason why using a span too much/less can be any bad thing
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twisted` imo I'd prefer if something like microdata or microformats would become mandatory
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twisted` want a product listing? use a friggin <price> for the price, <price type="sale"> or whatever
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twisted` styling can be exactly the same but 10000x easier to parse
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twisted` now I'm stuck with a gazillion elements that all make no sense whatsoever
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twisted` but that's just me looking at it purely from a technical standpoint
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twisted` parsing HTML is a pita
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twisted` if I know I can search for a predefined standard and parse just that... *happy camper*
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tantek twisted` microformats is what Google has supported the longest.
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twisted` well I clicked on *recommended*
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twisted` and it gave me that schema.org stuff
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tantek and designers still prefer minimal markup/attribute and working with the class attribute, so we've iterated on microformats with microformats2, fixing the problems like class collisions etc.
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tantek Google used to help contribute to microformats, e.g. hReview-aggregate, hProduct, hListing, but then decided to come up with 150+ different objects with schema
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tantek while reinventing the objects that already worked fine in microformats
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tantek it's Google's 4th attempt to reinvent something for adding semantics to the web (previously: Google Base, Google Data, data-vocabulary.org).
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twisted` how do I pass along which type of identifier it is?
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twisted` it needs a type like mpn
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twisted` so I do class="identifier mpn" ?
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tantek for microformats we're continuing to plug away and evolve it openly, with a community
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tantek the "type" is what we refer to as root class names in microformats
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tantek microformats2 makes this much simpler
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tantek essentially, root class names start with "h-"
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tantek e.g. h-card, h-event, h-recipe etc.
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twisted` yeah
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twisted` but I mean for hProduct
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twisted` I can define a MPN
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tantek in existing microformats, the root class names are all chosen one by one
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tantek so for hProduct, the root class name is "hproduct"
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tantek by MPN, do you mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturer_part_number ?
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twisted` yep
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twisted` http://microformats.org/wiki/hproduct -> identifier. optional.
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tantek right
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tantek and actually, all properties are optional in microformats2
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tantek for the publisher
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twisted` I dunno if Google supports microformats2?
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tantek it's another improvement we've made based on feedback
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tantek not yet
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twisted` then... it's no use to me atm ;) nofi :D
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tantek right now, various parser/validator developers are working on adding microformats2 support
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twisted` I just want better indexibility from Google's standpoint
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tantek for that, check back in 6 months I'd say (maybe sooner, but likely ~6months)
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tantek sure, for that you'll want only existing microformats or the microdata schema or rdfa variants.
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twisted` by that time, new iteration of the webshop's software
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twisted` new code to poke
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tantek makes sense
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twisted` tantek: how do I implement the MPN with Microformat 1?
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twisted` <span class='identifier mpn'>2090802</span>
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twisted` I now do that
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tantek *checks spec*
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tantek you have to include the mpn in a separate span
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tantek e.g.
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tantek <span class="identifier"><span class="type">mpn</span>2090802</span>
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twisted` ehr hmm that's not gonna fly unless I make an extra class that hides the mpn
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tantek ah ok
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tantek then yes, you likely have to use the Value Class - value-title pattern
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tantek e.g. <span class="identifier"><span class="type"><span class="value-title" title="mpn"></span></span>2090802</span>
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tantek brb - switching locations
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twisted` k
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spencerpresley created /We_7-Keto_DHEA_have_some_exciting_new_designs_coming_soon_to_the_STAYDENCH_online_store (+4687) "New page: [[Image:7-Keto_DHEA_1430.jpg|thumb|]] sisisiiiii! Ayúdame con un RT para QueCanteLaVida =) Professional Footballers Association of Indonesia - Meeting: The Press Conference PesepakbolaBe..." (view diff)
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tantek edited /Special:Log/block () "blocked [[User:SpencerPresley]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites" (view diff)
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tantek deleted /We_7-Keto_DHEA_have_some_exciting_new_designs_coming_soon_to_the_STAYDENCH_online_store "content was spam"
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tantek twisted` - how's the markup going?
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twisted` tantek: I completely implemented microformat
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twisted` but Google didn't recognise the price or something
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twisted` so reverted to the working schema.org/product which worked
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tantek hmm - did you put it in <span class="price">$100</span> or something?
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twisted` <span class="price">800</span>
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twisted` cause if I included the € in it it complained about illegal chars
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twisted` http://bastardoperatorfromhell.org/~twisted/jing/index.php?f=2012-07-27_0009.png&w=768&h=150 is a screenshot of what Google said
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twisted` it did find it, just didn't do anything with it
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tantek wow that's very odd - sounds like a bug with rich snippets handling
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tantek because if it's finding it, it should do something with it!