#microformats 2013-01-23

2013-01-23 UTC
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chairash1 created /por_favor_pongan_I_Wanna_buy_anavar_oxandrolone_Give_My_Heart_de_Denise_Rosenthal (+1482) "New page: [[Image:buy_anavar_oxandrolone_2559.jpg|thumb|]] IUsedTo think that clouds followed me... I still haven't been proved otherwise o_O Woke up to find this in my inbox from ..... would have ..." (view diff)
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dedicationcorrea created /ESTE_MIERCOLES_EN_EL_AMANDA_EN_VIVO_tipo_football_tickets_online_12_de_la_noche_gratis_hasta_las_23_horas_luego_5mil (+2409) "New page: [[Image:football_tickets_online_5423.jpg|thumb|]] Just arrived in Beijing SMA Negeri 34 Jakarta. A school located in Pondok Labu will send us their delegation to grab the champion :) Unti..." (view diff)
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andresbouytcpxybuttram created /NasalPolypsTreatmentMiracleTrial6853967 (+4140) "New page: Chipped In by: [http://www.NasalPolypsTreatmentMiracle.org How To Stop Snoring Naturally] Nasal Polyps Treatment Miracle combines modern nutritional as well as medical principles togethe..." (view diff)
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stanforddrvtgepmjxferriola created /MetabolicCookingPDF8712123 (+4039) "New page: Written by: [http://www.NaturalOvarianCystReliefSecrets.org Reviews on Natural Ovarian Cyst Relief Secrets] Metabolic Cooking is really a guideline that gives individuals the opportunity..." (view diff)
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zearin edited /rfc-2445 (-2) "Use the hypertext version of RFC documents" (view diff)
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tantek edited /User:Tantek () "(-1169) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/Cheap18|Cheap18]] ([[User talk:Cheap18|Talk]]) to last version by [[User:Tantek|Tantek]]" (view diff)
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tantek edited /rfc-2445 (+7) "linking to plain txt version is a deliberate choice as noted in the text of this page, Undo revision 49689 by [[Special:Contributions/Zearin|Zearin]] ([[User talk:Zearin|Talk]]), entry-title, auto-toc" (view diff)
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tantek edited /rfc-2445 (-17) "entry-title fix" (view diff)
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barnabywalters I’d be interested in opinions about just how incorrect my usage of p-location is here: http://waterpigs.co.uk/notes/867/
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aaronpk can I use rel=alternate on an <a> tag to link to alternate versions in other languages? http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-alternate#alternate_language_versions
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barnabywalters aaronpk: I do. add the hreflang attribute too to give it a bit of extra meaning
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barnabywalters e.g. http://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/chopped-up-cloned-you-choose/
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aaronpk cool
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aaronpk I also want to design some sort of header banner to link to alternate translations in a standard way on my site
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barnabywalters aaronpk: yeah, I haven’t done any interesting UI as you can see. It’s probably something that has been researched/we should research+document on the µf wiki
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aaronpk someone just translated an old article into Serbo-Croatian so now I have that plus christophe's, so I need to link to them
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aaronpk http://science.webhostinggeeks.com/web-alati-ucionice
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barnabywalters oh cool
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barnabywalters no idea what the language code for serbo-croatian is
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aaronpk heh
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aaronpk sh - deprecated http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbo-Croatian
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aaronpk looks like it's "hbs" now
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iSRAELi hi
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lizbethfwgnrjbiwqpfoutz created /Erection_problems_Causes5026778 (+2600) "New page: Erection problems (ED) parallelbezeichnung "impotence". This is a common sickness affecting numerous men around the world, and might become an unhealthy complication from some prescription..." (view diff)
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iSRAELi [[Erection problems Causes5026778]]
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iSRAELi something for you barnabywalters :D
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barnabywalters iSRAELi: ??? what are you implying?
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iSRAELi haha
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iSRAELi nothing
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iSRAELi i was thinking alot about this tag:
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iSRAELi <q cite=""></q>
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barnabywalters oh right? I’m not a huge fan of the cite attribute personally as it’s non-human-visible metadata
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iSRAELi well thats exactly what i like
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iSRAELi something for google
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iSRAELi so it will rank me up :D
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iSRAELi i think im gonna learn html5 and css from lynda.com
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iSRAELi i really want to explore as many html tags as possible
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smithwestbrook created /SO_2_loli_hope_north_york_HP_EliteBook_repair_ur_mentions_still_aint_dry (+2078) "New page: [[Image:north_york_HP_EliteBook_repair_3256.jpg|thumb|]] Today is the 70th anniversary of the execution of Mykola Trusevych, Oleksiy Klymenko & Ivan Kuzmenko, three heroes of the Dynamo D..." (view diff)
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iSRAELi by the way
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iSRAELi what is <wbr>
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iSRAELi http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_wbr.asp
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iSRAELi here it looks like it dont have a closer
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iSRAELi <wbr />
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iSRAELi it should be in this method
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barnabywalters iSRAELi: if you want to learn HTML5 in the fullest possible way, http://developers.whatwg.org is the place to go :)
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barnabywalters HTML: The Living Standard
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barnabywalters and I prefer to mark up for users, not for search engines ;) I very much doubt adding a cite attribute will have a better effect than just linking to the other site
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barnabywalters using a straightforward <a> is better for people and machines
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barnabywalters and the closing slash thing is an HTML vs XHTM/XML thing. XML *requires* those slashes for elements with no end tag, in HTML5 it is optional
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barnabywalters I believe in HTML4 the trailing slash was forbidden, but it’s possible to write HTML5 which is almost completely XHTML compatible
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barnabywalters which makes doing things like converting HTML to RSS or ATOM *loads* easier
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tantek scrolls up
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tantek edited /Special:Log/block () "blocked [[User:SmithWestbrook]] with an expiry time of infinite (account creation disabled): Spamming links to external sites" (view diff)
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tantek deleted /Erection_problems_Causes5026778 "content was spam"
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tantek deleted /SO_2_loli_hope_north_york_HP_EliteBook_repair_ur_mentions_still_aint_dry "content was spam"
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tantek barnabywalters - indeed, though I'd clarify that by saying it's possible (and preferable!) to write HTML5 that is XML valid (XHTML is no longer relevant) per: http://tantek.com/2010/302/b1/xhtml-dead-long-live-xml-valid-html5
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barnabywalters okay, so XML not XHTML :)
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iSRAELi <barnabywalters> and I prefer to mark up for users, not for search engines ;) I very much doubt adding a cite attribute will have a better effect than just linking to the other site
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iSRAELi it is a different type of link
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tantek iSRAELi, which search engines do anything with the cite attribute? examples?
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iSRAELi no
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iSRAELi <q cite="LINK">
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iSRAELi thats what i mean
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iSRAELi i must walk out the dog brb
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tantek sure, <blockquote> has a similar cite attribute. and <ins> and <del> also have a cite attribute for citing an explanation of the change.
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tantek the question still stands:
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tantek Which search engines bother to parse (and crawl?) the "cite" attribute (on q, blockquote, ins, and/or del), and what if anything do they do with it?
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barnabywalters apart from the edit transaction use case you came up with for ins/del cite="", I can’t see any benefit in quote cites over having a visible link to the source
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barnabywalters aren’t the use cases documented somewhere?
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tantek barnabywalters the *one* use case I've come up with so far for having <q cite> and <blockquote cite> WITHOUT a visible link right there adjacent in the source is when you want to make the quote automatically discoverable/followable, but not *distracting* to the reader (too many links = distractions = bad UI for reading)
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barnabywalters okay, I was thinking of something similar, i.e. wanting to send a pingback (for example) to a link without it distracting the user. Problem with that particular example is I’m pretty sure no pingback implementation accepts pingbacks without actual links!
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barnabywalters tantek: have you ever used Blekko’s grep the web for doing research into this sort of thing?
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barnabywalters research into usage, that is
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tantek barnabywalters - not sure how to use Blekko for this kind of thing. E.g. how would I use Blekko to search for usage of specific microformats?
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barnabywalters https://blekko.com/webgrep
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tantek BTW re: (too many links = distractions = bad UI for reading) - here are some points/posts on that matter: http://tantek.com/2013/001/b1/twelve-blog-post-writing-tips#footer-links and http://tantek.com/2012/156/b1/focus-enabling-design-distilled and http://tantek.com/2012/152/b1/citation-ui-focus-enabling-design
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iSRAELi yes
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iSRAELi exactly
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iSRAELi what effect does it have on search engine crawler?
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iSRAELi maybe none
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iSRAELi but it is a different type of link to your website,
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iSRAELi and you dont have THAT many,
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iSRAELi image link, nofollow link, regular link, relationship link
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iSRAELi what else?
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tantek if you don't know if it has any effect, why bother?
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iSRAELi well, if i will never try anything "out of the box" for my seo company
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iSRAELi why would they hire me if i cant improve?
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iSRAELi :)
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tantek barnabywalters - have you created any Blekko searches? I'm a little hesitant to get into their sign-up process unless it's not too much of a hassle.
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barnabywalters I haven’t, but I have an account. Send me a regex and I’ll submit it
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tantek how do they do class attribute processing?
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tantek e.g. since class attributes are space separated sets, we can't just look for class="hentry" for example
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barnabywalters hm, it allows a max of three string patterns, not regex ones ("yet")
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tantek we have to look for things like:
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tantek here's an XPath
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barnabywalters so looks like any searches we did with it at the moment would be tainted
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tantek /*[contains(concat(' ',@class,' '),' ","hproduct"," ')]
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tantek er, this: "//*[contains(concat(' ',@class,' '),' ",'hproduct'," ')]"
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tantek similarly for rel values
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tantek since a rel attribute is space separated
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barnabywalters I’m acquainted with one of the members of staff, I’ll ask him about adding regex patterns. not sure if XPath will be viable as it requires HTML parsing but we can approximate it with regexes
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tantek you have to use something like XPath: "//*[contains(concat(' ','author',' '),' ",$s," ')]"
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tantek to look for rel author usage
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iSRAELi anyway
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iSRAELi good night
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tantek unless it's possible to do that, then it's not clear how we can use Blekko without either missing a lot of data or having too many false positives
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Loqi gute nacht!
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iSRAELi and happy html5 :)
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barnabywalters good night iSRAELi
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tantek if we can look for multiple simple string patterns I guess we can look for:
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tantek class="hproduct", class="hproduct *", class="* hproduct", class="* hproduct *"
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tantek but that's four patterns already
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tantek and if you add in single quote variants
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tantek class='hproduct', class='hproduct *', class='* hproduct', class='* hproduct *'
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barnabywalters yeah, not great at the moment. I’ve contacted greg, I’ll see what he says
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tantek that's four more
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tantek = 8
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tantek and 8 > 3
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tantek so....
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tantek that's a problem for any research we'd want to do with respect to any use of rel or class microformats
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tantek e.g. this is flawed for that reason: https://blekko.com/webgrep?page=view&id=e9c502401d8c358648e8109eb5562359
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tantek it's not catching all uses of rel me or rel author
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tantek there are plenty of uses of rel me that are rel="me nofollow" or rel="nofollow me"
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tantek so yeah, Blekko needs improvement before it is useful for us
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tantek feel free to copy/paste any of these examples / suggestions if it would help get this stuff implemented in Blekko
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barnabywalters tantek: I added a link to the logs :)
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barnabywalters is currently finishing off his µf2 talk for tomorrow
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tantek barnabywalters - awesome! uf2 talk? when/where? we should add it to microformats.org/wiki/events
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barnabywalters at tomorrow’s Exeter Web meetup (the only meetup in Devon, once every two months)
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barnabywalters I’ll add it once I’ve finished the slides
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tantek barnabywalters btw - both those XPath expressions for class and rel were copied from #cassis.js
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tantek specifically the xphasclass() and xphasrel() functions
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barnabywalters ah, I saw those when I was trying to figure out how to *use* cassis. Lots of very short, unexplained varnames ;)
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barnabywalters oh wow! glindahl offered to run the regexes if I email them to him! So no luck on XPath but I’ll try to write some bulletproof regexes
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tantek "very short, unexplained varnames" <-- typical C programmer behavior
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barnabywalters I thought as much ;)
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tantek barnabywalters - great! if you could generalize your regexes (like with a $s parameter ;) )
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barnabywalters yeah, that’s fairly easy
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barnabywalters so, any requests?
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tantek then it would be great to see results for all the root microformats classes mentioned here: http://microformats.org/wiki/uf2#v2_vocabularies
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barnabywalters the µf2 ones?
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tantek both
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barnabywalters sure
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tantek every uf2 root class, like "h-adr", and the respective backcompat root class (if any), like "adr"
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tantek the list of uf2 vocabs on the uf2 wiki page is fairly complete BTW, per the list here: http://tantek.com/presentations/2012/09/microformats2/#slide9
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tantek (pretty sure I sent that slide to you a while ago, but if not, please feel free to use the content contained in that slide preso per cc-by)
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tantek edited /events (+453) "move events to past, add event for Exeter Web meetup and microformats2 talk by barnabywalters" (view diff)
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tantek ok I added the brief description of your event to the wiki page barnaby
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barnabywalters cheers
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tantek you'll have to fill out / create the permalink page itself: http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2013-01-24-exeter-web-meetup
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tantek feel free to copy/paste/clone/replace as needed from existing events like http://microformats.org/wiki/events/2012-12-18-meetup
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barnabywalters will do, but tomorrow morning. too late now :) goodnight all
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Loqi sweet dreams
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