#microformats 2014-10-16
2014-10-16 UTC
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# 
ChiefRA Guys, I'm looking at the mf1 hListing and it's still not clear how to implement/use it although Google has managed to incorporate it into its algorithms. Can someone with Admin rights unlock the page so I can edit it in order to become more eaier understandable?
# ChiefRA Loqi !tell tantek please unlock the http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting page so I can edit it to make it a little more accessible for implementation
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# ChiefRA pfefferle for me looks like it was loked... hmmm
# ChiefRA locked*
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# ChiefRA hi tantek, are you on?
# ChiefRA morning :)
# ChiefRA I'm trying to get a final shape for hListing so I was hoping you can help me out a little.
# ChiefRA publishing - using for real estate.
# pfefferle edited /hcard-supporting-user-profiles () "(-555) moved YIID to "offline" and removed some failing favicons" (view diff)
# ChiefRA tantek and I have some questions to ask you. Based on these questions I'll modify a little bit the Wiki too, adding some examples to be more self explanatory.
# ChiefRA 1st question: if listing action is optional why is it bolded?
# ChiefRA shouldn't we place the required properties first on the list?
# ChiefRA tantek - I was hoping that since Google adhere to it I think there is still hope, at least for using it to list it in search results as rich snippets
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# ChiefRA so I wanted to clarify a little bit the implementation, to make it a little bit easier for users to implement it.
# ChiefRA I do want to poke them through John Mueller to enhace a lit bit their understanding on the format, maybe we'll see it in search results :)
# ChiefRA tantek - so far, they don't fully understand the format, as I've seen in their http://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/richsnippets
# ChiefRA so, I wish to unbold the listing action and place some exmaples at the end of it
# ChiefRA ok go ahead, please let me know when you're finished.
# ChiefRA in the mean time, let's set some examples to be able to publish them there.
# ChiefRA 1st one is the hlisting declaration, I'm seeing it like this: <div class="hlisting housing offer-sale">
# ChiefRA strictly related to the real estate selling properties.
# ChiefRA We had in the past a mf parser and validator, which I used a lot to validate this format, to make sure I use the right properties in the right order to validate and get the maximum out of it. Now it's gone and I don't know where to get a good one.
# ChiefRA in a sec
# ChiefRA it looks nice :)
# ChiefRA I can do that, no problem.
# ChiefRA my only issue was if I'm using them correctly
# ChiefRA tantek I mean hListing it's clear. housing property -> should be stipulated as an example right there on the main hListing properties
# ChiefRA and the properties couple: offer-sale offer-rent and so on, I presume we should list them too within the main hListing format, as now on the listing action it's listed only sell, rent... but they are not exemplified as they are to be used in real life examples, as couples.
# ChiefRA does it make sense?
# 
tantek maybe start with adding one more example to http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting#Examples that we can discuss?
# ChiefRA tantek, ok good point, i'll put it in there right now, so we can discuss it :)
# ChiefRA tantek, done => under the name of Real Estate Listing for Sale
# ChiefRA see now please as I've added the extracted markup data too
# ChiefRA I think the most appropriate place to be doing this would be next to the "item", as it is an item after all?
# ChiefRA <span class="item housing"> ?
# ChiefRA the thing is, in real life examples, nobody specifies the "for sale" and "for rent" within the actual page.
# ChiefRA those are the categories in which you search for a house, so those properties should be stipulated only within the actual code.
# ChiefRA you do :)
# ChiefRA as on the real estate websites, the SALE or RENT are categories,
# ChiefRA they do not stipulate next to each property that it is for sale, I'll show you an example.
# ChiefRA the sale is stipulated within the URL, you chosen to go by SALE category first, and it has a price - big price - attached to it, so it's obvious (for humans) that it is automatically for sale
# ChiefRA this is only valid for real estate.
# ChiefRA for any other items - like phones etc etc on bazaar websites - it is in deed specified in clear text that those items are for sale, but here on real estate however, they are not.
# ChiefRA that's why is such a big confusion on microformats implementation for real estate.
# ChiefRA so, for this particular type - Real Estate - we should be able to encapsulate all these properties in only one line, so I suggest we go for the "item" to look like <span class="item housing offer-sale"
# tantek for a particular result (I clicked the first one) e.g. http://www.sothebysrealty.com/eng/sales/detail/180-l-1182-cq2v5e/the-penthouse-at-the-pierre-hotel-upper-east-side-new-york-ny-10065 - I see your point
# ChiefRA tantek, even for the main page, the one in my example, it's only within the H1 stipulated for sale.
# ChiefRA but we markup the individual items, not the h1.
# ChiefRA :)
# ChiefRA can you see my point?
# ChiefRA ok.
# ChiefRA and I got another even better example:
# ChiefRA you can't just because you may have a price for rent also...
# ChiefRA and you can have a mixed list of rent, sale, and buy properties.
# ChiefRA I don't have, but it was in discussion.
# ChiefRA it['s just a silly example.
# ChiefRA as in real life, you can't put that up on a website.
# ChiefRA the thing is, we need to figure out a way of marking up each individual property on a list, like the list from my example even though, they do not stipulate the actual action" within the visible text: sale, rent.
# ChiefRA and by marking up the "housing" along with it, this should set the exception to TRUE, to allow us to markup this without the need of an actual visible text.
# ChiefRA does it make sense?
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# ChiefRA ok, mea culpa on that one :P
# tantek ChiefRA see my changes to http://microformats.org/wiki/hlisting#Real_Estate_Listing_for_Sale
# ChiefRA tantek: it's not working to have two ALTs on a picture, it will misslead google
# ChiefRA the offer and sale are very well positioned on the price
# ChiefRA but the housing could be sit next to the "item", in fact it's the main item property
# ChiefRA what do you say?
# ChiefRA should you or I do it?
# ChiefRA ok :)
# ChiefRA one more thing remains to be defined: is the Real Estate Address
# ChiefRA as every real estate has a phisical address, that should be underlined and extracted as a stand alone item.
# ChiefRA it normally goes under the item info, but Google desn't know yet how to extract it other than using the same principle as within the hCard
# ChiefRA I know, I also know that we try to make the microformats as simple as possible, but don't you think that if we add the word item next to the adr where the adr is stipulated, the specific parsers (e.g. Google and any other extractors) will definitely know that this is the phisical address of them item and NOT of the lister?
# ChiefRA I mean, I try to see it from the parser's point of view: it needs to know the exact location from where to extract this data in order to validate it.
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# ChiefRA ok, so you say that it has to be itterated as "item adr" and not simple "adr" ?
# ChiefRA ok, so you say there is no need of duplicating the item class next to the adr, rather to place the adr class next to the item?
# ChiefRA let me check how Google sees that :)
# ChiefRA it doesn't :) at least not yet.
# ChiefRA it should know to extract the "adr" from the "item" I'll make sure I'll bring this into the discussion with John for his engineers.
# ChiefRA one more thing tantek: we need to make the correlation within the hListing properties examples, so for the users to know which should be combined with whith.
# ChiefRA I mean to offer them the new proper examples to know that they need to combine the ""price" with "offer" and "sale", the "
# ChiefRA "itme" with "housing" :)
# ChiefRA item*
# ChiefRA yes, agree, but we also need to say that on the Properties somehow, a short version.
# ChiefRA here I mean:
# ChiefRA hListing
# ChiefRA version. optional. text.
# ChiefRA listing action. optional. one or more tags, suggested set: sell | rent | trade | meet | announce | offer | wanted | event | service
# ChiefRA lister. required. hCard | (fn || email || url || tel).
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# ChiefRA ok then, can you please take another look at my example to see if I missed something else from within the code? That example I wish to show to Google team, to ask them to be taken into consideration for a better recognition in Google.
# ChiefRA tantek, should we also remove the word "draft" from it as now we can consider it as being a mature version? :P
# ChiefRA tantek: one more thing: please have a look at this line: listing action. optional. one or more tags, suggested set: sell | rent | trade | meet | announce | offer | wanted | event | service it seems that here are mixed examples from "listing type" - offer, wanted - and "listing action" - sale, rent - which should be placed on a different line.
# ChiefRA tantek: I'm going out for dinner, I'll be back later on maybe we can definitivate this one :) thanks for your help and see you later. Bye guys.
# tantek I think this is the accurate state of the page: http://microformats.org/wiki/process#Drafts
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# tantek edited /microdata (+487) "microformats2 offers extension methods as well, link directly to how-to, provide brief textual examples" (view diff)
# tantek !tell Mark87 take a look at http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-prefixes re: collisions etc.
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