#microformats 2015-01-21

2015-01-21 UTC
prtksxna, tantek_, tantek, KartikPrabhu and KevinMarks_ joined the channel
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kylewm I'm at the place. got 3/4 of a long table by the cash register
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@Movies_Reddit The Interview - G&Hreview https://www.youtube.com/ (twitter.com/_/status/557733918003453952)
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aaronpk good evening!
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kylewm hi aaronpk. tommorris kevinmarks and I are here, waiting for tantek and a few more
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aaronpk sweet
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aaronpk according to this, tantek is gonna be a little late http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2015-01-20/line/1421806726555
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@mannooran The Interview - G&Hreview via /r/movies http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/2t4mdp/the_interview_ghreview/ #Movies (twitter.com/_/status/557737926113918977)
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kylewm-du-dome we have a tantek
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aaronpk is joining from a bar in portland after just having watched the SOTU
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KevinMarks_ hi there
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tommorris aaronpk: talky.io time?
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aaronpk i'm in a bar so i will mute myself but sure
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kylewm_ talky.io/microformats
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aaronpk OMG is that tommorris IRL?!
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tommorris Yep.
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aaronpk HAI!
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aaronpk hello?
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tommorris kylewm: https://github.com/tommorris/mf2py/issues/27
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aaronpk that lady who just walked by seemed very confused by the table of laptops
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tommorris ...in San Francisco. What a sight!
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aaronpk *gasp*
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: kylewm_ : oh the new e-parsing does not get rid of the blank spaces it seems?...
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KevinMarks_ it's the bonus laptop not attached to humans
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tommorris KartikPrabhu: I haven't merged that in yet. :)
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KartikPrabhu tommorris: oh so that bug is separate?
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tommorris the bug is against the current master.
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KartikPrabhu oh ok
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aaronpk so how bout them h-entry's?
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aaronpk oh dammit talky is eating my cpu
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kylewm_ KartikPrabhu: tommorris: I'm confused about the HTML whitespace thing. if i knew how to use git blame, i could maybe figure out where it was introduced...
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aaronpk what do you say we get to the meat of this meetup within 30 minutes
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tommorris Yup. :)
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KartikPrabhu ok so what is the agenda?
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aaronpk kylewm_: github has a git blame view
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aaronpk what's the repo in question?
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tantek topic: http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#implied_properties_on_backcompat_parsing_unlikely_to_be_intended
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kylewm_ tantek: when I came up with the idea of implied property, when i came up wtih the idea of backcompat, i did not think about using them together
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aaronpk agreed
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kylewm_ the proposal is when prsing backcompat, implied properties should not be implied
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kylewm_ it is causing bad false positives
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kylewm_ KevinMarks_: the counter example might be wordpress templates that have microformats framing everything, but microformats2 nested inside
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kylewm_ might be a good idea to check wtih GWG and who all is doing wordpress templates
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kylewm_ aaronpk: is that anomalilly?
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aaronpk kylewm_: yes she dragged me to an SOTU viewing party ;)
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kylewm_ tommorris: suggesting setting some boundaries, when you are parsing a mf1 legacy entry, do not allow any mf2 entries inside
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kylewm_ tantek+Kevin: we should specify behavior for mf1 nested inside mf2
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kylewm_ hi anomalily :)
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kylewm_ KevinMarks_: showing a wordpress example where you install micformats2 plugin without a compatible theme
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kylewm_ p-name inside entry-content
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KevinMarks_ example: http://www.jeanmrussell.com/testing-brid-gy/ using wordpress with a classic template and mf-2 inside it
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kylewm_ that example has <body class="...h-entry hentry..."> which means it would be parsed *without* backward compatibility
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aaronpk eep
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kylewm_ because h-entry implies that it has mf2, so mf1 would be overmatching
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KevinMarks_ here's what we get: http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeanmrussell.com%2Ftesting-brid-gy%2F
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KevinMarks_ note the 2 content's
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KevinMarks_ and 3(!) names
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tommorris That looks like a particularly fun way of making parser developers buy painkillers. :)
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KevinMarks_ 4 name's
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tommorris and the four names are not all the same
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tommorris and in mf2py: http://mf2py.herokuapp.com/parse?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeanmrussell.com%2Ftesting-brid-gy%2F
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kylewm_ tantek edits the wiki
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KartikPrabhu a minimal example would be nice
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+707) "adding two issues to stop "crossing the streams" interactions between classic/uf2 roots/properties. AKA don't cross the streams." (view diff)
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tantek http://microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues#backcompat_classic_microformats_should_only_see_backcompat_properties
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kylewm_ KartikPrabhu: of which part? the wordpress blog Kevin posted is pretty good
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KartikPrabhu kylewm_ that seems to have a whole bunch of comments and all that. the error is in the main h-entry yes?
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kylewm_ KartikPrabhu: every post on snarfed.org has the same <entry-content><e-content> problem, e.g. https://snarfed.org/2014-11-24_11741
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+574) "/* issues */ add reasoning/thoughts sections to don't cross the streams issues" (view diff)
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kylewm_ hard to find one without comments
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+90) "/* implied properties on backcompat parsing unlikely to be intended */ resolved at meetup" (view diff)
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KevinMarks_ search for e-content in http://pin13.net/mf2/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeanmrussell.com%2Ftesting-brid-gy%2F
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KevinMarks_ "name": [ "Testing Brid.gy", "Testing Brid.gy", "Disruption and IIW Fall 2014", "Testing Brid.gy" ], "category": [ "Uncategorized" ], "content": [ { "html": "&#xD;\n \t\t\t<div class=\"e-content\"><p>How do I get things to show up from here to twitter and facebook and also for twitter and facebook to show up here?<\/p>\n<\/div> \t\t\t",
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aaronpk has to run!
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aaronpk good evening!
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kylewm_ KartikPrabhu: the whitespace issue seems to go back forever, I bet it is dependent on html5lib vs. lxml or whatever
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KartikPrabhu kylewm_ o poo!
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KartikPrabhu kylewm_ odd that this test failuer did not show before!?
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GWG So, where are we in this backward compatibility discussion?
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KevinMarks_ tantek is changing http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing-issues
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GWG I'm still trying to get mf2 into WordPress core.
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GWG I got someone to agree to bring it up at the next dev meeting
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kylewm_ GWG: the idea is basically, 1) if a root element has a mf2 class on it, it will be parsed without backward compatibility; and 2) if a root element has a mf1 class without an mf2 class, mf2 properties will be ignored
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GWG So, all anyone has to do is add the new class, not necessarily remove the old?
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kylewm_ yep
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GWG Works
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tommorris kylewm_: good work!
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KevinMarks_ next discussion: child microformats issues -
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KevinMarks_ t: classic mf1 had specified child properties only
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KevinMarks_ mf2 allows more arbitrary embedding
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kylewm_ an mf2 class with an mf1 class nested inside "obviously" makes sense, since mf2 expects nested objects
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kylewm_ an mf1 class with a nested mf2 class is tricky
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kylewm_ should the mf1 class be the end of the line (since mf1 did not have expected children), or should the mf2 class be parsed as a child
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KevinMarks_ GWG: note that google only currently parses mf1, and is using it for page-type categorisation; it will only show a single type (though may show eg multiple reviews or events
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GWG Who else uses mf1?
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GWG I know few people use 2
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kylewm_ tantek: my default is to ignore the nested mf2 class
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KevinMarks_ https://developers.google.com/webmasters/structured-data/testing-tool/ shows this; this was a motivation for a lot of SEO, and many wp users do this
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kylewm_ GWG: every wordpress blog uses mf1 right?
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KevinMarks_ a note from that community: http://www.seoskeptic.com/json-ld-big-day-at-google/
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kylewm_ tantek: hAtom has hFeed with unattached hEntry children
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KevinMarks_ hReviewAggregate doesn't get hReview children
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kylewm_ tantek: another option is to hoist micformats2 classes up to the peer level with its parent mf1 element
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KevinMarks_ tom: can we find a significant corpus of mixing 1 and 2
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KevinMarks_ tom: suggest to barnaby that our online parsers have an opt-out "stash a copy as an example" checkbox
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GWG kylewm_: Not every, no.
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KevinMarks_ by default, with default themes
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+2064) "uf2 children inside a classic microformats root class name, any h- root class name overrides and stops backcompat root" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-brainstorming (+165) "resolve nested object on a property brainstorm from kylewm, decided to adopt" (view diff)
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@TechWars_io We compared #hcard vs #vcard - see results: http://www.techwars.io/fight/hcard/vcard/ (twitter.com/_/status/557783687522435072)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+96) "/* issues */ resolve uf2 children inside a classic microformats root class name" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+652) "resolve a bunch more" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (+110) "no consensus on the form root issue" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-brainstorming (+191) "/* Canonicalization of datetime output */ consensus on choices, not clear how strong a priority" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-brainstorming (+497) "/* Add meta http-equiv to microformats2 parsing model */ http - reasonable as optional pass, no need for metas until someone provides use-cases" (view diff)
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-brainstorming (+7) "html4strict" (view diff)
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tantek and with that I believe we are done with key issues and brainstorms for microformats2
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing-issues (-10) "not a stub for a while" (view diff)
kez_, tantek_, tantek, krendil, chiui, KartikPrabhu, eschnou, adactio, kez__, Musk, Acidnerd, prtksxna, TallTed, gRegor`, hectorMcSpector, hectorMc_, hectorM__, caseorganic, elux and Loqi joined the channel
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tantek what was the comment last night about <template> and microformats parsing?
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tantek could someone (tommorris kylewm KevinMarks_ ) remember and add it to the parsing issues doc?
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tantek (along with proposed resolution I hope :) )
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tantek microformats.org/wiki/microformats2-parsing-issues
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tantek thanks!
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@miyoko_552 Error: Missing required hCard “author” http://rich-snippets.newsin.tk/a/57ba72b0-8a6e-11e4-b757-afda85417759 (twitter.com/_/status/558019331758755840)
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robertoa edited /rel-home (+146) "Added an example in the wild" (view diff)
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robertoa edited /rel-home (+11) "/* Examples in the Wild */" (view diff)
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tommorris tantek: yes, the template tag needs to be ignored. mf2py already does this and I believe php-mf2 does too. someone reported it on IRC a while back (Hixie perhaps?)
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tommorris mf2py handles it by removing any template elements from the document before parsing.