#microformats 2017-03-23

2017-03-23 UTC
ben_thatmust, [kevinmarks], gRegorLove, tantek, davidmead, nitot, barpthewire, adactio and nitot_ joined the channel
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@MediaWyse @aaranged Thanks for that. Yeap, it's validating. Wish they would update the help resources. Make it easier to remove the Microformats card. (twitter.com/_/status/844903729035853824)
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martymcguire[m] ^^^ hmm, the start of that thread shows a "structured data capabilities" chart where nobody support microformats?
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martymcguire[m] https://twitter.com/aaranged/status/844694418493878273
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Loqi [@aaranged] Since people seem to have found this useful, here's a clean version of my table of structured data capabilities by data consumer #SMX https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7j1DNhXkAAiDde.jpg
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martymcguire[m] seems inaccurate, since aaronpk just found pinterest parsing h-recipe. also not sure what the ⚠️ symbols are supposed to mean.
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aaronpk Heh someone didn't do their research
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aaronpk https://twitter.com/aaronpk/status/844921534045044736
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Loqi [@aaronpk] @aaranged #SMX fyi Pinterest parses h-recipe: https://developers.pinterest.com/docs/rich-pins/recipes/ Also what does ⚠️ mean?
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[kevinmarks] Aaron, should we document your audience extension on the mf wiki?
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@aaranged @aaronpk Thanks Aaron. That means the Pinterest microformats column in in error (should be !). (twitter.com/_/status/844927087127420928)
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@aaranged @aaronpk In the case of everything but microformats, means "limited support". (twitter.com/_/status/844927209357770756)
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aaronpk [kevinmarks]: i guess? what's the threshold for documenting something on the wiki? I would assume more than just one publisher
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@aaranged @aaronpk For microformats and search engines means, "supported, but the microformat isn't expressive enough for most requirements". (twitter.com/_/status/844927487884705793)
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aaronpk :eyeroll:
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@aaronpk @aaranged You might want to look at recent activity in Microformats, specifically version 2. Lots happening there, mostly in the social web. (twitter.com/_/status/844928163792666624)
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@aaronpk @aaranged I'm guessing you're talking about SEO, but microformats2 is the backbone of distributed conversations across lots of websites now. (twitter.com/_/status/844928372094353408)
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martymcguire[m] ugh
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aaronpk waits for bridgy to backfeed those tweets
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aaronpk here they come
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aaronpk http://twtr.io/1PqVMb2KLPV
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Loqi [@aaranged] @aaronpk Sorry, but from an SEO point of view utterly inconsequential, as all the search engines' eggs are now in the #schema.org basket.
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martymcguire[m] SEOsplaining
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aaronpk i don't think a social web explanation will matter to him
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@aaranged @aaronpk I appreciate the road that microformats paved, but it's 2017, and I should be using prescribed class declarations ... because? (twitter.com/_/status/844929622751916032)
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@aaronpk @aaranged For example, I'm posting this conversation to my website, and your tweets show up there using Microformats https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/23/6/ (twitter.com/_/status/844930135023247363)
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aaronpk https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/23/9/
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Loqi [Aaron Parecki] @aaranged It's schema.org today, but ???? tomorrow! https://aaronparecki.com/2017/03/23/9/photo.png
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@aaranged @aaronpk I appreciate the reference and your thoughts, but fundamentally disagree about the continued utility of employing microformats. (twitter.com/_/status/844930955710160896)
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aaronpk http://twtr.io/1PqWCkqBmh9
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Loqi [@aaranged] @aaronpk And regarding your table, the chief reasons it has legs is: a) because it is a broadly-supported initiative, NOT just Google, and..
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aaronpk http://twtr.io/1PqWKg95LVu
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Loqi [@aaranged] @aaronpk b) Both the community development and extension mechanisms have been very successful. Remember a while ago reading a mf ...
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aaronpk http://twtr.io/1PqWPuR1Ufb
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Loqi [@aaranged] @aaronpk ... blog post that development would now only be undertaken on the mf IRC channel. I mean ... words fail me.
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@aaranged @aaronpk But bottom line is that microformats are simply not expressive enough anymore to satisfy the search engines' s. data requirements. (twitter.com/_/status/844932504339398656)
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martymcguire[m] those search engines with their voracious needs for data.
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@aaranged @kevinmarks The microformats that the search engines understand are not expressive enough to satisfy their contemporary requirements... (twitter.com/_/status/844946150213861376)
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@kevinmarks @aaranged that they haven't updated their microformats parsers is not microformats not being expressive. (twitter.com/_/status/844948513612029952)
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@kevinmarks @aaranged what we did with microformats was tighten up on the criteria for standardisation to multiple publishers and consumers. (twitter.com/_/status/844948880550760448)
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@aaranged @kevinmarks ... and all Google needs to do is "update their microformats parser"? (twitter.com/_/status/844950221025005569)
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@kevinmarks @aaranged microformats 2 changed the model so that the parsers did not have to know the vocabulary of each format. Hence schema vocab in mf2 (twitter.com/_/status/844951582403952640)
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@kevinmarks @JarnoVanDriel @aaranged that is what was said about xml too. HTML persists. See http://microformats.org/wiki/dry (twitter.com/_/status/844959454378573824)
[kevinmarks], nitot, gRegorLove, tantek, KartikPrabhu, ben_thatmustbeme, JohnBeales and [eddie] joined the channel
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tantek good morning #microformats - I see the SEO folks are onto selling the next generation of their snakeoil ;)
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tantek would it be too rude to reply saying ok if SEO crowd ignores microformats, didn't want their spam anyway?
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tantek good *afternoon* as it were
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tantek currently considering what "tough" questions to ask to basically pick apart all the bad assumptions made from the SEO tweeters
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[kevinmarks] Did you see the defence of JSON-LD there?
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[kevinmarks] Replies to this https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/844977691346513921
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Loqi [@kevinmarks] @JarnoVanDriel @aaranged you do need validation as part of your build process in either case, to check that your changes are consistent.
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tantek kevinmarks - it's a bit odd, but kind of a typical dev defense of too much process / ceremony that certain devs seem to really like
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tantek the point about HTML changing often is valid however
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tantek so maybe it's time to formally specify metaformats for April 1
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[kevinmarks] The irony of DRY between JSON-LD and the js;dr mainsite
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tantek yeah, and irony of SEO people doing js;dr
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