#microformats 2019-01-01

2019-01-01 UTC
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[tantek] And there you have it ^^^
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aaronpk lol
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[tantek] that merits another spec update
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Zegnat That "schema_help" link is nearly only popover on my phone https://imgur.com/a/Gkdkprk
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tantek edited /microformats2-parsing () "(-1001) incorporate proposal for issue 2, edits reviewed, test case provided in issue https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2#issuecomment-450669274" (view diff)
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@t #microformats2 parsing spec updated: http://microformats.org/wiki/index.php?title=microformats2-parsing&diff=66969&oldid=66967 * always parse alt with img src for accessibility info by default https://github.com/microformats/microformats2-parsing/issues/2 Implemented in current version of: * mf2py - behind flag, in use by http://Brid.gy This is a ... http://tantek.com/t4yG5 (twitter.com/_/status/1079984280539942914)
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[tantek] that was a hard one and I'm so glad it is done (as far as specified, per process). now comes the hard part, rolling it out to all the other parsers, and flipping it on in mf2py by default
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[tantek] yet, a very good note to end 2018 on as far as mf2 updates - improving accessibility by default is the right thing to do
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@WebOrganics Why did I stop contributing to Microformats? Microformats 2 which seems to have just appeared without much consensus a few years ago, is total nonsense... We agreed years back when we tried to map DC terms that "stick" separators "-" were pointless yet they were adopted for MF2 (twitter.com/_/status/1080068413626699776)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ Can you document that agreement? I have no recollection of it, and what we do have about DC says the opposite: http://microformats.org/wiki/vote-links-faq - namespaces were the pointless part. Microformats-2 has extensive consensus and interoperating implementations and we'd love to add yours (twitter.com/_/status/1080071060664565760)
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@AimarSaldias The latest Aimarren aldizkaria! https://paper.li/AimarSaldias/1328614319?edition_id=cdd469d0-0dc1-11e9-9722-0cc47a0d164b Thanks to @teketen #microformats2 (twitter.com/_/status/1080080220395397122)
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@WebOrganics ↩️ Hello Kevin, nice to speak to you again, long time, the discussion was on uf-new, I will dig it for you. Yes namespaces are pointless in microformats, which also makes me wonder why they were implemented, call it what you like "uf" is a namespace, the stick is just a separator. (twitter.com/_/status/1080081676909326336)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ The mf2 prefixes aren't namespaces, they're parsing directives - they tell you where to look for the property, rather than each implementation having to update a hard-coded list. This gives greater flexibility in defining new microformats or adding properties to existing ones (twitter.com/_/status/1080082328830070784)
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@WebOrganics ↩️ Yes you could also call them scoping mechanisms, there are "h-", "p-", "u-", "dt-" and "e-" prefixes, the fact that they have "special meaning" in microformats, it's a mechanism that binds arbitrary strings to a definition (an object), a namespace. (twitter.com/_/status/1080101863775784960)
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@kevinmarks ↩️ @WebOrganics we could move over to https://chat.indieweb.org/microformats/ - it has most of the twitter thread already (twitter.com/_/status/1080118741692805121)
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aaronpk That's not what namespace means lol
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aaronpk also lol "a few years ago"?
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Zegnat Namespaces are tricky. Half the time I twist myself into thinking our vendor prefixes are namespaces
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aaronpk vendor prefixes are closer to namespaces than the parser prefixes
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[kevinmarks] I suppose the mp- ones are a kind of namespace
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[kevinmarks] But that's in a narrow context
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aaronpk mp- ?
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aaronpk micropub? microformats exists without micropub so that's not really the same
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[tantek] nah, neither are namespaces. yes prefixes are used for namespaces, but not all prefixes are namespaces. all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares etc. common logical error (ironically) by developers
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[tantek] yes lol "a few years ago". it was proposed in 2010 and quickly gained organic adoption subsequently
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Zegnat The micropub ones would also be something like class="p-mp-status" in HTML, not adding a namespace really, more a vendor prefix (?)
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[tantek] yes
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aaronpk personally, microformats *only* made sense to me with mf2. I never really got behind the mf1 style.
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[tantek] similarly, CSS vendor prefixes are not namespaces. CSS *does* have namespace support, separately, see @namespace directive
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[tantek] "Why did I stop contributing to ..." <-- maybe because you joined Twitter and got distracted and sunk your surplus time & creativity into that?
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tantek created /microformats2-history (+35) "r" (view diff)
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[tantek] http://tantek.com/2010/122/t2/microformats-2-simpler-publishing-parsing
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Loqi [Tantek Çelik] shared thoughts on microformats 2.0 in person. http://ufs.cc/w/e/45X even simpler publishing and parsing. wanna discuss? http://ufs.cc/w/e/45Z
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[tantek] pretty sure switching to posting all my "tweets" on my own site in 2010 helped me recover focus, time, creativity that then led to deep enough thinking to come up with mf2
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[tantek] (just four months later!)
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@WebOrganics ↩️ Yep, seen it, won't be discussing there. I hoped for a long time that microformats would change their ways revert back to the simplest solution, but nearly 10 years later an microformats are broken because of it. Will just keep on with uf1, and hope one day people will see sense. (twitter.com/_/status/1080147796660027392)
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aaronpk sorry for the snark, just don't have a lot of patience for that kind of thing right now
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weborganics No tantek I got a meaningful job that consumed all my spare time
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weborganics Anyway I have time now, 2019 is the year to correct wrongs. Bye for now.
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[tantek] meaningfuljob++
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Loqi meaningfuljob has 1 karma over the last year
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[tantek] weborganics, everyone who has used mf2 in practice, including past mf1 publishers and parsers has found mf2 simpler to publish, simpler to parse
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[tantek] if you find actual things that are "broken", you can now file issues too! see the mf2 spec for the issues link to a github issues repo
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[tantek] we've actually formalized community consensus a lot more in the process (see change control on the mf2 spec for example)
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[kevinmarks] @weborganics if you're still at twitter, could you please add rel=me support back to the main profile page (and h-card or hcard even)
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[tantek] kevinmarks++
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Loqi kevinmarks has 5 karma in this channel over the last year (31 in all channels)
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aaronpk who is paying for the microformats server and is there a budget for $5 or $10/month for an extra server for a while for the migration?
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[tantek] we got a sponsorship for it! so the server is fully covered by the hosting company
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aaronpk ah cool! would they allow us to create a new server on the account too?
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[tantek] that is a good question
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[tantek] we could try in the admin interface and see what happens?
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aaronpk lol that's one way to find out
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