#microformats 2019-08-23

2019-08-23 UTC
[tantek], gRegorLove, vendan, [mapkyca], [fluffy] and [Lewis_Cowles] joined the channel
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@voxpelli
What’s the best framework for creating mobile apps? React? Flutter? Me and @Okkido: The POSH-PWA You heard it here first. (Plain Old Semantic HTML Progressive Web App) https://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200711/posh_plain_old_semantic_html/ http://microformats.org/wiki/posh You agree @adactio @ThatEmil @t, right?
(twitter.com/_/status/1164795829070073857)
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[tantek]
[KevinMarks] I’m thinking a “rel” repo and then we can have individual files in there for the sections of the rel registry. That way consuming applications can choose the subsets they want, and as rel values either get adopted or rejected we can move them accordingly (and have issues to track them)
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[tantek]
Longer term we can also consider moving rel specifications there too like /rel/tag.md (Markdown is “good enough” for specs right? Or we can stick with HTML too but that can be decided later)
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[KevinMarks]
MD can contain html, and github pages can serve raw html too
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[KevinMarks]
We could use an ssg if we want more generated structure.
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[tantek]
Except then that adds tool chain setup friction
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[tantek]
Which is fragile long term. Not good for specs
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aaronpk
Yeah keep it simple
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[tantek]
Tool chains all come and go
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[tantek]
No desire to add a “chase the tool chain” admin tax
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[tantek]
You should only do that if you’re being paid to do it, and only while you’re being paid to
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[KevinMarks]
Fair. With an ssg at least you get the generated html too, so there is a fallback.
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[KevinMarks]
But the overhead in files can high for a small site
gRegorLove, [kim_landwehr], [jgmac1106], [prtksxna], [mapkyca], [Michael_Beckwit and [Lewis_Cowles] joined the channel
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[Lewis_Cowles]
[tantek] ++
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Loqi
[tantek] has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (122 in all channels)
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vendan
ugh, coming back to my parser, it's failing like all the tests :(
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aaronpk
[tantek]: re video poster image, there would need to be either an implied parsing rule for video tags, or some other prefix because you need two different attributes of the same tag to parse into different values
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KartikPrabhu
vendan: not sure which test you are using, but they might not be up-to-date or accurate
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KartikPrabhu
best to compare with outputs of existing parsers
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KartikPrabhu
IIRC some tests in there are not accurate. but the simpler tests should be I think
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vendan
ehh, not blindly following the test, but so far, yeah, my stuff has been wrong based on what I can find in the documentation
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[tantek]
aaronpk I think it matters how the video src vs poster would be expected / desired by consuming applications
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[tantek]
this is kind of similar to alt on img actually
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[tantek]
hmm we already have some u-* parsing of the poster attribute (in absence of any src)
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[tantek]
in the spec:
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[tantek]
" else if audio.u-x[src] or video.u-x[src] or source.u-x[src] or iframe.u-x[src], then get the src attribute
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[tantek]
else if video.u-x[poster], then get the poster attribute "
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aaronpk
huh i didn't realize that
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[tantek]
so you can do <video class="u-photo" poster="poster.jpg"><source class="u-video" src="video.mp4" /> </video>
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[tantek]
or u-poster if you don't want to overload u-photo etc.
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[tantek]
which works for simple cases, which is good because it means simple publishing and consuming cases are enabled *right now*
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[tantek]
so we can study them to determine if more complex cases are needed
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[tantek]
example simple case is a video post with a poster image
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[tantek]
single video
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[tantek]
for a multivideo post (if anyone actually does that, I mean it's possible on Instagram), we would likely need to do something like treat poster on a video element with src and class u-* similar to how we treat alt on an img element with src and class u-*
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[tantek]
markdown--
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Loqi
markdown has -1 karma in this channel over the last year (-3 in all channels)
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[tantek]
it really shouldn't have eaten my *s there
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[tantek]
simple example restated for folks that find these logs in the future:
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aaronpk
it came through IRC just fine :)
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[tantek]
This is how you markup a video with a poster so that you can have both URLs show up meaningfully in the parsed mf2 result: <video class="u-poster" poster="poster.jpg"><source class="u-video" src="video.mp4" /> </video>
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[tantek]
e.g. inside an h-entry
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[tantek]
I just made up u-poster there as an example, because it's not really a photo itself, it's a poster image for the video
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KartikPrabhu
maybe an alt-like parsing would be better since class = "u-poster" poster = "poster.jpg" seems pretty redundant and extra markup
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[tantek]
alt like automatic parsing would be better for many reasons, including simplifying the markup even more than that. currently to use the method I showed you have to move the video src into a nested source element in order for it to get picked up separately from the poster
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[tantek]
more importantly this only works dependably for a single video inside the mf2 object
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[tantek]
once you have more than one video, unless they *all* have poster images marked up like that, you're going to end up with poster vs video URL mismatches
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[tantek]
of course anyone putting 2 + 2 together here will quickly notice that there is another problem - there is no way to specify the alt text for the poster image!
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[tantek]
e.g. something like a posteralt attribute would be the "simple" way to do it predictably and easily explainable to web developers. similar to how there's an hreflang attribute on a/link elements that is used to provide a hint of the language of the document at the href attribute
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[tantek]
that's a separate upstream problem in the HTML spec itself though and I'm working on that
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[tantek]
though if we do decide to file an issue / change the mf2 parsing spec to do automatic parsing of the poster attribute in a video tag with src like that, I would want to add an optimistic suggestion to also look for a "posteralt" attribute and parse for that too, treating it like the alt on img src
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aaronpk
huh i thought we had an open issue on fancier video tag parsing
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aaronpk
along the lines of the img alt issue
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[tantek]
I don't think we ever had an issue for fancier video tag parsing because the last time we discussed it we got stuck in a similar way to how we got stuck talking about img alt
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[tantek]
but since then we've solved img src alt
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aaronpk
hm interesting
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aaronpk
but i remember seeing somewhere an example of a potential parsed video tag that had multiple formats
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Loqi
[aaronpk] #29 poster frame for videos
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[tantek]
video tags with src and poster
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aaronpk
no i mean example parsed result
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aaronpk
in json
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aaronpk
like a proposal
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aaronpk
for when a video tag has multiple source elements inside
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[tantek]
that's a separate issue
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aaronpk
that's what i mean
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[tantek]
this is also a separate issue "where the photo is intended to be the poster frame of the video" which I think we subsequently discouraged
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