#microformats 2020-12-03
2020-12-03 UTC
iwaim and lostinthesauce joined the channel
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lostinthesauce hey
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# btrem Is there a way to search the irc archives as a whole? Or would I have to go day by day?
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[KevinMarks] you could do a site: search in google
# [KevinMarks] or search in github https://github.com/indieweb/indieweb-chat-archive
# btrem How did I miss the search box? (I actually think the light colors sort of camouflage it.) Thanks aaronpk. Also thanks [KevinMarks] for the link to the github link.
# [KevinMarks] hm, next/prev link buttons on the chat pages would be handy too
# [KevinMarks] lol. I was expecting them at the top and bottom of the text not the siderbar
# btrem I saw those. But I didn't notice the search box below them.
# [KevinMarks] UX is hard
# btrem Just what I was thinking.
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[tantek] that being said, the UI is quite responsive (try resizing the window), and if you've got suggestions or better chat archive navigation UI examples to point to, please provide them! though since we're talking meta about the IndieWeb community rather than just microformats technical details, I recommend following up in #indieweb-meta
iwaim, [Raphael_Luckom], [KevinMarks], [chrisaldrich], [fluffy], [Emma_Humphries], [snarfed], jacky, KartikPrabhu, [asuh], [Rose], [Murray], ethanyoo, [jgmac1106], [tantek], [amy], [schmarty], [tw2113_Slack_], [mapkyca], jamietanna, [jackjamieson] and btrem joined the channel
# btrem I searched the irc archives for discussion of restaurant menus. I only found passing references to frustrations with pdf and flash. Did I miss anything?
# btrem Has anyone given any thought to a microformat for a restaurant menu?
# btrem It might be as simple has using the draft h-listing for the menu and h-item for each menu item.
# [KevinMarks] Makes sense - or h-product. Likely h-recipe is too detailed.
# btrem Hmm, actually, now that I look at it, h-listing is to list multiple availabilities of the same item, i.e., widget foo is available from these vendors....
# btrem http://microformats.org/wiki/h-listing: "h-listing is about an item and what you want to do with it"
# [KevinMarks] This sounds like a terrible pun, but h-feed might make sense.
# btrem Ha ha!
# btrem But h-feed is for rss, isn't it?
# [KevinMarks] Though not h-entrée
# [KevinMarks] It's for a collection of entries, but it is more about time ordering than sequence.
# btrem Right, but a menu is not really a collection of entries. It's a collection of products. So it needs a wrapper mf for h-product.
# btrem So much the better if a menu mf could contain an h-card for the restaurant. Then a page can be parsed for the restaurant name, phone number, and menu items.
# btrem I used to work in restaurants. (Laid off last March.) :(
# btrem Right!
# btrem Maybe I'm the person for the job?
# btrem IIUC, I need to find examples of restaurant menus on the web to get the ball rolling. And submit them...here? On the wiki?
# btrem It's a nightmare.
# btrem Restaurants have to enter the info for every @#@ service.
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# [KevinMarks] Google's workaround is to prompt you to label photos of good with the menu item
# btrem Not just delivery services, but for other services like Open Table.
# btrem For years I wished for some way to automate the process. mf might be the way.
# btrem I have an account on the wiki, but I don't think I can edit it. (Can I?)
# [KevinMarks] This sounds like a good candidate for an examples page
# btrem Yeah, I went down the wrong road. Tried to come up with something for microdata. It was a rabbit hole. Or black hole.
# btrem A pox on schema.org!
# btrem I suppose the problem is that so many restaurants do the wrong thing: they just upload a pdf for their menu. So it's worth asking now: is there any point in doing the work? Will restaurants use it? Or just continue with their pdfs?
# btrem If we could get the crappy POS systems that are foisted on restaurants to output POSH, *that* would be an incentive!
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# btrem When a restaurant changes their menu, they have to update a pdf (or some other format for the printer), update their POS system, update their website menu page, and then update menus for any services like Open Table. Talk about violating the DRY principle.
# btrem There isn't any container for multiple h-product s, which is sort of surprising. So if we do this, we probably want to do something generic. So a bookseller could use the mf to list books for sale on their website. Or a plant nursery could list plants for sale.
# btrem In fact, a more generic container might encourage more adoption.
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[schmarty] btrem: the page itself can act as the container. microformats parsers will parse a page and all found microformats items are placed in an array called "items".
# btrem Ha ha
# btrem Before I start, I should point out: it's highly likely that a service like doordash or whatever will need detailed info about availability. E.g., a restaurant will often have separate lunch and dinner menus.
# btrem I have an account on the wiki. I just don't know what I can with my account. ;-)
# btrem I suppose cross the separate-menus bridge later, and start with something manageable first.
# [tantek] start with https://microformats.org/wiki/menu to describe the use-cases (both for restaurants publishing and potential sites that could/would consume those menus to provide services to users)
# btrem Perfect, thanks.