#microformats 2020-12-04
2020-12-04 UTC
# 
btrem https://microformats.org/wiki/menu-examples does not exist, and I can't create it. It looks like from the process page that I should start with that. If that's correct, can you create that page? Then I can start adding example menus.
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# btrem Thank you kind sir.
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# btrem How does Loqi know that the btrem in the irc is the same as the Btrem on the wiki? Cool that it (she? he?) does. (:
# btrem [tantek] I have a list of examples posted (as Loqi has informed us). (: Maybe it make sense to also create the menu-formats and menu-brianstorming pages.
# btrem Sure. And man, that karma comes quick. Nearly knocked me off my feet.
# btrem Sorry, I'll get my coat. (:
# btrem Well, we all shine on!
# btrem Ok, I'll stop now. Promise.
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# btrem Sounds good, thanks for your help.
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# btrem edited /menu-brainstorming (+823) "Suggests using h-product for menu items. Changes wording on use of h-card." (view diff)
# btrem edited /menu-brainstorming (+260) "Notes missing container mf for menu items marked up with h-product" (view diff)
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# btrem edited /menu-examples (+24) "/* T.S. McHugh's Irish Pub */ Fixes abbreviations (changes
{{abbr}} template to html abbr element)" (view diff)[schmarty], iwaim, [chrisaldrich], [jeremycherfas], KartikPrabhu, [KevinMarks], ethanyoo, btrem and [eddie] joined the channel; btrem left the channel
# btrem edited /menu-examples (+8) "/* T.S. McHugh's Irish Pub */ Inserts missing word from sentence fragment" (view diff)
# btrem edited /menu-examples (+527) "/* Examples */ Adds intro describing common features of menus on the web." (view diff)
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# btrem edited /menu-examples (+410) "/* Examples */ Adds paragraph describing category names." (view diff)
# btrem edited /menu-examples (+66) "Moves general description of menus to a new "overview" section. Renames example sub headings." (view diff)
# kevin marks edited /menu-brainstorming (+248) "/* Brainstorming */ agree p-caetgory is good" (view diff)
# btrem edited /menu-brainstorming (+898) "/* Brainstorming */ Adds discussion of menu container names." (view diff)
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# btrem edited /menu-examples (+1463) "Adds section for French restaurants with two example restaurants." (view diff)
# btrem I'm not sure how to research restaurant menu formats. When you enter those terms in a web search, you get swamped with MS Word template links.
# btrem If you search for web menu formats, you get articles on navigation menus. :/
# btrem The only example I can find for a restaurant menus web format is from schema.org. They have a menu schema with *scores* of properties. The complexity is absurd.
# btrem They used to show adoption rates, but no longer do. Given the complexity, probably not much.
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# 
[KevinMarks] look at foursquare/yelp maybe? Or what delivery service ask for?
# [KevinMarks] also look at templates on wix/squarespace/wordpress - see if there is commonality
# [KevinMarks] a lot of the point of this is, as you say, to find the most common subset of fields that many places use - list out the fields that each one has, what they're called and so on, then look for the overlap
# btrem I can look at menus, but IIUC, menu-format is to document formats, not examples. I'm going by recipe-format, which lists different markup formats (recipe book xml, reml, etc.).
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# [KevinMarks] yes, sorry, examples is for layouts and pages, formats for existing structures
# [KevinMarks] we could maybe talk to Brian about menu formats - he used to do open data at google an now is CTO of Tock https://www.red-bean.com/fitz/bio/
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# btrem re: Open Table overcharging: I'm well aware of them. I could at great length about their sordid practices. As to the specific charge, it happens.
# btrem When they sign you up, they do make sure you understand the importance including the ref code.
# btrem But a developer could still miss that step.
# btrem Also, Open Table software used to be bad. Like, embarrassingly bad. Shockingly bad. Just a real cluster. Bad.
# btrem It is better now, but still crappy imho.
# btrem https://schema.org/Menu
# btrem But the fact that schema.org have created a menu schema doesn't mean it's actually in use. I have not yet seen an example in the wild.
# btrem Ok, I'll add it right now.
# btrem How mean can I be on the wiki? >:->
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# 
[tantek] This may be overkill but will hopefully help provide some guidance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Criticism
# btrem Oh, I was being a smart-a#!@. I'm not going to be sweary on the wiki. But when I tried to interact with schema.org, I was pretty sweary when I vented. Fortunately, I live by myself, so no one had to listen to me. (:
# btrem sebbu What was your use case?
# btrem [tantek] My frustration was more general. schema.org are on this bizarre mission to account for every variation and edge case, no matter how marginal.
# sebbu i wanted to retrive the books / mangas / light novels / web novels / ebooks / fanfictions i was reading, along with my reading position (very important, which volume/chapter/page i'm at), and details about the book/etc, like synopsis, author, translator (group?), recommendations, genre, tags, etc... and *merge* data from different sources (websites) so that i could say "this book on this site is the
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# btrem So this was for personal use? i.e., you weren't looking for a way to markup existing web content? Or did I misunderstand you?
# [KevinMarks] sebbu - have you looked at OpenLibrary's format? They deal with multiple editions etc.
# btrem [tantek] In fact, when I got involved with schema.org, there was no Menu type, and I was trying to gauge interest. Though some folks thought it was a good idea, *months* went by with absolutely no action.
# btrem ..._but_ months went by....
# [KevinMarks] they have already mapped a lot of identifiers, and they're a wiki so you contributing mappings there helps others too
# [KevinMarks] AO3 has a kind of API for fanfic too. One thing that could work for reading position is the fragmention idea - the last sentence you read as an anchor.
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