#microformats 2022-01-11

2022-01-11 UTC
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[chrisaldrich] [KevinMarks] I started reading Ann Blair's book _Too Much to Know_ just before the holidays and our sense of information overload didn't start in the digital era. https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300165395/too-much-know She's got a handful of journal articles on the historical topic of information overload as well.
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[chrisaldrich] She touches on ideas of note taking, indexing, and other taxonomy related things in history that likely underlay some historical ideas of microformats
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[tw2113_Slack_] that's a lot of pages to read...too many 😛 jk
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capjamesg[d] Would anyone be willing to review some edits I am going to propose to the microformats MDN page?
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sknebel sure
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capjamesg[d] sknebel I have copied the revised text into this Gist: https://gist.github.com/capjamesg/f4c7edf3c4e510e353a4b974ff9c69b1
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capjamesg[d] I made minor changes to the intro, added the rel attributes section, and made minor changes to the "How microformats work" section.
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capjamesg[d] What do you think about adding a h-review too?
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sknebel not the most important, but doesnt hurt I guess
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sknebel will look at the text changes later
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[tantek] capjamesg[d] would be better to prioritize the microformats that have known consuming code/services/applications
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[tantek] I’d really like us to move away from “markup just for markup’s sake” which doesn’t really serve people
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[tantek] I’d also like to avoid reinforcing that “indexed by search engines” is enough or a priority (as compared to peer to peer usecases like webmention)
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capjamesg[d] I agree. The search engine bits were already there. I might rearrange the intro a bit and add a specific list of use cases, with reference to webmentions and syndication as key use cases.
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[tantek] right, prefer peer-to-peer use-cases, and then only mention search engine indexing as a secondary use-case
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[snarfed] capjamesg, minor nit, should we remove _(sometimes abbreviated μF)_ ? not a very understandable or accessible abbreviation, and we don't use it much any more afaik
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[tantek] agreed
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[tantek] yeah that parenthetical was a leftover from an older version of the wikipedia article, and never really substantiated
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capjamesg[d] I agree. The sometimes abbreviated bit is not very intuitive / easy to read.
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capjamesg[d] Feel free to make any other suggestions!
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[tantek] lol: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Microformat#%22sometimes_abbreviated_%CE%BCF_or_uF%22
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Loqi WikiProject Microformats
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[tantek] capjamesg[d], do you have any experience improving Wikipedia articles?
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capjamesg[d] I don't, no 😦
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[tantek] ah, I'd recommend creating an account there and start making minor improvements because it's a good way to get practice
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capjamesg[d] "I don't know about you, but I don't have a μ key on my keyboard." XD
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capjamesg[d] I shall!
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[tantek] the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microformat article could use both minor improvements and rewrites of out of date sections
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Loqi Microformats
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[tantek] for now, I'd say focus on minor improvements along the lines of what you’re doing in the MDN article.
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[tantek] also gRegor has some experience with editing that article that you may find useful as context/background
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capjamesg[d] Yes! I'd love your thoughts gRegor!
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capjamesg[d] https://gist.github.com/capjamesg/f4c7edf3c4e510e353a4b974ff9c69b1
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] I made quite a few changes to the start of the article based on what we discussed earlier.
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[tantek] this is looking very good!
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[tantek] one nit so far, there's several places that say "could" where we have real world examples that work today so no need to conditionalize with "could"
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[tantek] e.g. "An aggregator could parse a page", could be replaced with "Modern reader aggregators parse" and link to
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[tantek] e.g. indieweb.org/social_reader
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[tantek] the heading "Some microformats examples" could be shortened to just "Examples" or if you want to keep some context, "Microformats examples"
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[tantek] that's it, I'd say fix those and it'd be a great update!
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capjamesg[d] Why thank you!
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capjamesg[d] I will replace the word "could" with appropriate real-world references.
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capjamesg[d] Is it appropriate to link to the IndieWeb wiki inline in those cases?
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capjamesg[d] I shall add a link to the webmention website, too.
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[tantek] start with perhaps naming the real world references.
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[tantek] closer to home, this makes me realize what we need is a total rewrite of https://microformats.org/wiki/implementations, moving much of it to historical / internet archive links
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capjamesg[d] Oh no 😦
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capjamesg[d] Well, it's an opportunity to document some of the newer innovations we have seen with microformats re: the IndieWeb 🙂
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[tantek] yes certainly!
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tantek edited /implementations (+830) "needs update for microformats2, focus on mf2 and user-centric or major implementations" (view diff)
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capjamesg[d] [tantek] need any help?
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capjamesg[d] I can add tools like Monocle / Aperture, Quill, IndieWeb Search, etc. to that list.
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capjamesg[d] Is it worth adding a Past Examples section? Maybe even as it’s own page as it looks like quite a few of those examples might be outdated / no longer relevant.
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[tantek] yeah definitely. it's going to take major work to fix/update that page though, without losing the stuff that still works
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[tantek] noted in page already
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[tantek] https://microformats.org/wiki/implementations#update_for_microformats2
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capjamesg[d] Oh yes. I don’t think I’m qualified to do the bit about past examples unless URLs are completely dead.
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capjamesg[d] But I can add to the page 😉
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[tantek] the problem is "add to the page" doesn't work if there isn't a section you can trust with recent information
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[tantek] so it needs at least *some* restructuring before even adding to the page is helpful
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capjamesg[d] I agree. I’ll see what I can do.
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capjamesg[d] I might refactor it in a separate local doc and share via a Gist before making any direct changes.
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[tantek] :thumbsup_all:
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capjamesg[d] 👍
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capjamesg[d] Thanks for the opportunities. I love documentation.
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capjamesg[d] Why thank you!
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capjamesg[d] I’ll submit it in the next few days.
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capjamesg[d] I am also going to add a page for the rel=me attribute but it will not be too long because those pages seem to be very short.
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capjamesg[d] Yes!
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capjamesg[d] Indeed.
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capjamesg[d] I’ll make those revisions!
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