#microformats 2022-02-16

2022-02-16 UTC
angelo_, angelo, ur5us_, barnaby, robo, [Zeina]1, [aciccarello]1, cygnoir[d], ben_thatmustbeme, [tonz]1, [schmarty]1, [Zeina] and [James_Van_Dyne] joined the channel
#
@Squiggle Reminded myself that XHTML and microformats used to be a thing, and now I'm sad. The standardised semantic web had so much promise, and now we have... <waves hands> whatever this thing is (twitter.com/_/status/1493902707068973058)
jacky, Guest6, hans63us[d], angelo, KartikPrabhu, Seb[d] and barnaby joined the channel
#
barnaby is there any archived discussion about h-card/vCard photo vs logo properties, and real-world use cases where distinguishing between them is required? the indieweb h-card wiki page mentions that homepage h-cards should include u-photo or u-logo, but I suspect that the majority of mf2 consumers ignore the logo property
#
barnabywalters edited /irc-ja (+5) "/* Microformats IRC */" (view diff)
#
barnabywalters edited /faq-template-fr (+4) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters edited /process-faq-fr (+4) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters edited /faqs-for-rdf-fr (+0) (view diff)
#
[KevinMarks] not sure where it's discussed, but the logo for business, photo for person is reasonably clear imo
#
barnabywalters edited /hreview-faq (+4) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters edited /turns-nine-upgrade-to-microformats2 (+38) (view diff)
#
[KevinMarks] there's some weirdness in Atom where logos are supposed to be 2:1 and icons 1:1 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4287#section-4.2.8 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4287#section-4.2.5
#
barnabywalters edited /press (-48) (view diff)
#
barnabywalters edited /hcalendar-faq (-35) (view diff)
#
barnaby oh that’s fascinating [KevinMarks]
#
barnaby ATOM is even weirder than I thought
#
barnabywalters edited /hcalendar-faq-fr (-35) (view diff)
#
[KevinMarks] vcard has photo under identification properties and logo under organisation properties https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6350
#
[KevinMarks] which may have been what I remembered it from
#
barnaby that’s vocab stuff though, not use-cases where the two are meaningfully distinct
#
barnaby the end goal in both cases is likely “show an end user an image representing the entity identified by the h-card/vcard”
#
[KevinMarks] PoCo says photos should be of the person https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-smarr-vcarddav-portable-contacts-00.html#anchor18
#
barnaby the only indieweb u-logo consumer I can think of OTTOMH is indieauth authorization endpoints looking for logo properties in a h-app vocab, to show to users on a “this app is requesting permissions” page
#
barnaby “should” is fine and good, but plenty of people use non-photo profile pictures on their personal sites. should those theoretically be marked up with u-logo instead? and should all feed readers look for both properties?
#
barnaby and for CMSes to get that “right”, they’d have to ask users whether their profile photo is a real photo of them on a settings page somewhere, and then switch out u-photo for u-logo where appropriate
jacky joined the channel
#
barnaby I suppose my specific questions would be: should the indieweb wiki h-entry page continue to encourage use of u-logo without any known consumers/use cases?
#
barnaby and: should guides to consuming h-card data for feed readers etc encourage implementations to look for logo as well as photo properties? if both, what should be prioritised, and in which situation?
#
[KevinMarks] I think it's reasonable from the vcard heritage, and the common usecase of a card with a photo and/or company logo on
#
barnaby for the former I’d err towards not encouraging it without clear use-cases, for the latter I’d tend towards encouraging consumers to look for any relevant properties they can find
#
[KevinMarks] especially as orgs in h-card can be nested h-cards and so could have the logo associated with them
#
barnaby I think both absolutely belong in the vocab itself, especially as afaik we try to keep h-card in sync with vcard
#
barnaby I’m more interested in what to recommend for individual publishers and consumers in an indieweb context
#
barnaby (so maybe this discussion belongs in #indieweb-dev :P)
#
barnaby I’ve been throwing around the idea of writing a guide to consuming microformats (i.e. once you’ve got parsed data from a page, how best to go about dealing with it), and have been thinking about questions like this
#
barnaby because there are lots of things you can get tripped up on, which are usually fairly easy to deal with if you know what to expect
#
[KevinMarks] Did tantek's h-card have logos for the organisations in it at some point?
#
barnaby no idea
#
barnaby his current homepage h-card doesn’t
#
[tantek] It's worth documenting what current mf2 consuming code does, and identifying places where the specs or wiki gives guidance that's not supported by any implementations
#
[tantek] KevinMarks, in practice (nearly?) no one publishing bothers with differentiating logo vs photo so that bit of vCard legacy distinction is not worth carrying forward. I mean are there even vCard consuming apps that treat them distinctly like that?
#
[tantek] Yes to nested h-card for org structure
#
barnaby okay, for the moment I’ll remove the reference to u-logo on the indieweb h-card page then
#
barnaby I’m trying to clean up some of the “Why” sections on pages for key building blocks, to make clearer cases for what value they bring
#
[tantek] Good call. Also cleaning up “Why” sections is a good topic for #indieweb-meta
#
[tantek] Since we don't have an official or even unofficial h-card validated, might be worth discussing indiewebify’s h-card checker in #indieweb-dev
P1000[d], [Joe_Crawford] and jacky joined the channel
#
jacky updating the rust mf2 website to use https://crates.io/crates/microformats/0.2.0
ur5us_ and ur5us joined the channel
#
barnaby very nice jacky
#
[tantek] jacky++ awesome!
#
Loqi jacky has 8 karma in this channel over the last year (64 in all channels)
#
@BarnabyWalters New Article: How to Consume Microformats 2 Data A (very) belated follow up to Getting Started with Microformats 2, covering the basics of consuming and using microformats 2 data. https://waterpigs.co.uk/articles/consuming-microformats/ #microformats #indieweb (twitter.com/_/status/1494076116147003395)
willnorris joined the channel