#microformats 2023-08-05

2023-08-05 UTC
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GWG I studied JSON-LD data, and found on many sites was better than meta tags in terms of getting useful titles and authors.
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[tantek] That's surprising. Which sites?
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GWG [tantek]: I looked at News sites mostly.
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GWG The original reason I wrote the code was because I wanted proper news citations. Author, title, and summary.
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GWG Meta tags rarely provide author data
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GWG Dublin Core was there because jackjamieson was sending me examples of scholarly works
[aciccarello], btrem, IWSlackGateway, Loqi__ and [schmarty] joined the channel
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[schmarty] in case folks missed it: an unofficial proposal for an unofficial new mf2 property was added to the indieweb wiki this week, probably prompted by discussions at a homebrew website club? https://indieweb.org/u-gift
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[tantek] Per microformats prefixes, experimental properties should at a minimum start with a -x-, eg u-x-gift otherwise assume that it will break and be overridden by something. Also "gift" seems like a poor choice for a "dedication". I'd say an actual gift would be some *thing* you gave someone, similar to the properties use by folks who buy and sell things
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[snarfed] Haven't we and the broader standards community gradually concluded that experiment/vendor prefixes cause more harm than good over the long term?
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[snarfed] Since you end up with a bunch of -x- in the wild that's then difficult to migrate and support backward compatibility everywhere for?
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[snarfed] I'll find past discussions
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capjamesg That was my thought.
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capjamesg We have precedent for experimental properties being u-...
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capjamesg Such as in the Proposed Additions section of https://microformats.org/wiki/h-entry. I know those properties are more mature, but the points holds of non-core properties not having the u-x.
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Loqi [preview] Tantek Çelik
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[snarfed] (I'm with [tantek] on dedication vs gift though?
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[snarfed] Er, no ?
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capjamesg ++
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[tantek] capjamesg, each of the proposed properties in the h-entry section had multiple publishers when they were added to the wiki
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[tantek] [snarfed] pretty sure no (re -x- ) because then we would have updated the prefixes page accordingly. My recollection is we decided that new properties are added slowly enough that we don't have the same risks like the IETF did which drove them to write up their anti -x- policy
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[tantek] Also starting with -x- clearly communicates "this is likely to change"
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[snarfed] Ok. That's not my recollection of the consensus here, but I don't feel strongly
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v​onexplaino To keep with the chat lingo would u-kudos be appropriate? Gift and dedication and kudos imply a positive relationship
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gRegor Not sure about consensus, but it's definitely mixed opinion here. Zegnat and others have commented against the practice.
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gRegor (the -x- prefix, sorry left that part off)
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[tantek] kudos are just likes last time I checked
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capjamesg Dedication is an interesting one.
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capjamesg Books may have dedications.
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capjamesg So there is precedent in the print form.
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capjamesg [tantek] +1 re: kudos and likes distinction.
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[tantek] right, so there are steps to researching & documenting such prior examples on the wiki in the process of creating a microformat, perhaps we can re-use that for properties too
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capjamesg ++