#social 2015-03-15

2015-03-15 UTC
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aaronpk is w3.org down?!
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aaronpk at least the wiki appears to be
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82851&oldid=82850
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82854&oldid=82851
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82855&oldid=82854
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82856&oldid=82855
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Loqi Pelf made 2 edits to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82859&oldid=82757
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82860&oldid=82856
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82862&oldid=82861
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82863&oldid=82862
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82865&oldid=82864
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Streaming & Push]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82866&oldid=82622
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tantek good morning #social
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Loqi tantek: elf-pavlik left you a message 1 day, 6 hours ago: slvrbckt has some basic POSSE for IRC in http://sockethub.org/ he may come to IndieWebCamp in Düsseldorf https://twitter.com/slvrbckt/status/573772326443073536 ping aaronpk http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-03-14/line/1426324645981
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tantek !tell elf-pavlik re: slvrbckt - Neat! Feel free to invite him to Freenode # indiewebcamp too for pre-IndieWebCampDüsseldorf discussions.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek !tell elf-pavlik thanks for all the additions to the agenda for the f2f. I'm not sure we'll get to all of them at the times you put them - I expect that we'll heavily reprioritize the agenda in-person to focus on on the topics that people attending in-person want to discuss.
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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tantek hello harry
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harry hi tantek - what's up?
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harry Are you in Boston yet?
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tantek not yet - will be Monday night
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harry great - anything else?
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harry I see it appears w3.org went down at some point
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harry which is rare
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tantek I'm looking at all the agenda edits
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harry Yes, I'll go over them too
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harry [looking]
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tantek I've never seen a working group meeting agenda edited so much ahead of time by someone not attending the meeting in person
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tantek so I'm adding some (hopefully reasonable) guidance
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harry elf just has tons of spare time
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tantek apparently!
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harry as long as his edits make sense, then I'm for them
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harry Yes, he's unemployed (by choice), as are bblfish and a few others
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harry I think some of the dynamic in the WG is that some people with particular ideas have tons of spare time and others don't.
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harry I hope the agenda hasn't gone off into a discussion of the @profile element :)
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tantek harry, I thought bblfish was from Apache
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tantek per his affiliation in the group membership list
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harry No, he is appointed by Apache - Apache has no or very few employees
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tantek what is he appointed by Apache for?
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tantek now I'm confused
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harry that is legal by W3C rules as long as Apache explicitly endorses him and there's no conflict of interest.
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harry I htink he is working on the Apache Marmotta linked data platform
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harry not quite sure, just ask him.
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tantek it is like a special invited expert under the responsibility of a w3c member?
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tantek s/it is/is it
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harry It's a weird edge case but basically, yes
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harry Apache is the only group I know to use it.
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tantek ok good to know
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harry I think it exists mainly for groups that have no employees per se
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harry but nonetheless pay membership.
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tantek harry - I just edited the agenda with more instructions, could you take a look? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17#Agenda
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harry ah, need to refresh
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harry I'll do some minor clean up
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harry Its OK, I guess although I am worried that the way its structured now we're likely to rat hole on something marginal or irrelevant
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harry Anyways, it will require strong chairing
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82867&oldid=82865
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elf-pavlik hi tantek harry :)
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harry anyways, agenda looks fine although we need to make sure we don't rat-hole - which means closing issues.
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harry and not delaying them into indefinite future
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elf-pavlik nice addtions to the wiki tantek++, i tried to sign everything and considered it to 'just proposed by me'
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harry That's fine elf! I think we can close many of these issues pretty quick.
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elf-pavlik i hope so!
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elf-pavlik i see Frederick Hirsch also will join (Annotations WG)
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elf-pavlik harry, can we arrange decent speakers and 2nd projector for (e)face 2 (e)face ? https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17#Remote_Participation
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harry we have the standard W3C polycon that we use at TPAC
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harry we don't have anything else unless someone buys us something
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elf-pavlik jasnell also joins remotely
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harry It has historically worked well
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Loqi Hhalpin made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82868&oldid=82867
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elf-pavlik tantek, how to do it in microformats? http://schema.org/seeks
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harry So it should be better than say, in China
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elf-pavlik we will add wishlist to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17
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elf-pavlik action-34
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trackbot is looking up action-34.
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trackbot action-34 -- Pavlik elf to add explaination to the spec about multiple serializations used in examples -- due 2015-02-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/34
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elf-pavlik http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#fig-an-object-that-is-both-a-place-and-a-gr-location
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elf-pavlik {
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elf-pavlik "gr": "http://purl.org/goodrelations/v1#"
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elf-pavlik }
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elf-pavlik http://wiki.goodrelations-vocabulary.org/Cookbook/Seeks
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tantek catches up on edits
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tantek elf-pavlik: for general microformats questions, maybe better to discuss in #microformats instead of this channel? not sure other folks here would be that interested
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tantek elf-pavlik: thank you for signing your agenda item additions and clarifying "proposed" - appreciated - that makes a lot more sense now
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elf-pavlik we can #selfdogfood and add to event <https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17> gr:seeks [ rdfs:label "Videoconf equipment" ] .
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tantek elf-pavlik: perhaps we can start with just human readable requests :)
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elf-pavlik tantek++
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Loqi tantek has 164 karma
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Loqi Hhalpin made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82869&oldid=82868
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tantek harry, I'm going to split the specific agenda item sections in the spec by chair additions vs. proposed, and I think for each item that is proposed, we should have an in-person champion to discuss it
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tantek to avoid the ratholing problem you mention
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tantek I think it is appropriate for a f2f to prioritize the topics that the people who actually took the time/expense to travel to the f2f want to discuss first, and then everything else can be considered time pending.
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harry Yes, I agree, but we should try to address all the topics.
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harry However, I think will have to watch time
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tantek hence time permitting
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harry yep
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tantek elf-pavlik: I'm going to keep all your items under each general topic but I'm going to put them in a "proposed" section to make it clear that they have been proposed.
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harry I don't think the in-person champion is needed.
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harry However, some of them are open issues.
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harry So we should try to close them
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tantek harry: only if they are blocking progress on the spec(s)
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harry What we need to do is to make sure these issues are exactly in scope, have running code, and have real users
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tantek otherwise they can be postponed to the "TBD" time
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tantek yes
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harry If they are 'theoretical' issues, I'm pro just closing them rather than making them TBD
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tantek agreed
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harry We can re-open if code/users/demand appears
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tantek right
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tantek however I want to postpone such meta-discussion to the TBD time
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tantek for issues that don't have an in-person champion
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tantek so that we don't get lost in the weeds during concrete spec discussions
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harry OK, but I think the 'in-person' thing is a bit much. However, we can try to cluser elf's isues
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tantek if no one in person thinks an issue is worth prioritizing for the spec discussion time, by default it gets postponed to TBD time - that's what I'm proposing.
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harry since they are mostly versions of 'I want to use neat RDF feature X'
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tantek perhaps - I don't want to single anyone out
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harry into a single long discussion with elf over the long-distance.
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tantek yes that may make sense for timezone reasons
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harry Since he's in Germany, it seems that having his issues in the first session make sense
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tantek harry: the in-person thing is about respecting the folks that made the time/effort/investment to be there, and thus incentivizing in-person participation in f2f meetings
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harry elf-pavlik, is that OK?
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harry Yes, but elf has invested quite a lot of time and has made valuable contributions, so I think we should really make sure he gets a session to go over his issues re AS 2.0 in the morning
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harry But yes, for the rest of the meeting lets try to concentrate on things with 'in person' champion
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tantek I suppose we could timebox a session just for elf's issues on AS2?
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tantek I think the AS2 issues will be difficult to discuss also because James Snell won't be there in person either
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tantek (the editor)
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tantek having that cross-triple-site discussion will be cumbersome at best
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elf-pavlik tantek, makes sense in many ways!
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harry Yep, that would let elf intro the issues as well.
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elf-pavlik i just proposed it as IMO reasonable clustering of stuff we have open in a tracker
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elf-pavlik trackbot, status
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trackbot knows about these 42 users: Ann, Reuben, Adam, Mark, Tantek, Bret, wilkie, Pavlik, Laurent Walter, Amy, Harry, Sandro, DUK KI, Shane, Renato, Jonathan, Paul Changjin, Geun Hyung, Jaakko, Andreas, Arnaud, Hyejin, Bill, Fabio Luciano, Alexandre, Aaron, Evan, Benjamin, Jason, Dan, Doug, Wendy, Owen, Hyunjin, dave, James, Henry, James, Claudio, Christopher, XIAOHAI, Erik
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tantek elf-pavlik: yes - it is good to have items explicitly in a list like that.
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elf-pavlik tantek, how can we share https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17#Wishlist with http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge/Guest_List#Remote_Participants ?
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tantek elf-pavlik: sounds like an organizer question
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elf-pavlik ben_thatmustbeme, http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-03-15/line/1426436828154
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tantek elf-pavlik: https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge#Questions_for_Organizers
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82870&oldid=82869
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tantek elf-pavlik: are you planning to participate remotely in http://indiewebcamp.com/2015/Cambridge/Guest_List#Remote_Participants ?
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tantek please RSVP there first, and then add any remote participation questions for the organizers
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elf-pavlik thx!
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elf-pavlik hi peacekeeper o/
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peacekeeper elf-pavlik: hey :)
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elf-pavlik going for http://get-d.net/ and IIW ?
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peacekeeper yep
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elf-pavlik issue-17
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trackbot is looking up issue-17.
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/17
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trackbot issue-17 -- Identity, Agent, Person, Persona, Account etc. need clarifications -- open
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tantek elf-pavlik: will you have any of your itches ready to demo for the f2f? https://indiewebcamp.com/User:Wwelves.org_perpetual-tripper#Itches
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harry I think Sandro will have a demo there!
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tantek harry, I hope so - Sandro has demonstrated things at past IndieWebCamps!
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elf-pavlik tantek, good point! i just moved to new VM in last days... yesterday started adding my public keys on https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper/
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tantek perhaps update your Itches list with what you want to do next?
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tantek or if you have a specific list of things you're working on, add them to a == Working On == section
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elf-pavlik i work on the very first one "add detailed logs of my usage of public transport, I take public transport without buying tickets and would like that everyone can fully analyse my consumption habits in this field"
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tantek great!
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elf-pavlik AS2.0 sounds like a perfect fit! similar to what aaronpk does on http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
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tantek elf-pavlik: I'm not so sure - AS2 in its current state sometimes seem too big to fit anywhere ;)
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elf-pavlik it enables extensibility with vocabularies like mentioned in https://github.com/OpenTransport/vocabulary/issues/16
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Loqi Tantekelik made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82872&oldid=82870
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tantek elf-pavlik: perhaps consider starting with just *human readable* detailed logs of usage of public transport ? rather than jumping to vocabulary?
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elf-pavlik i need touch inteface on mobile device for it to don't create burden
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tantek capture that in the itch description! that's a good observation!
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elf-pavlik trying to type names of stations in french, german, italian and many other languages gives me hard time...
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elf-pavlik also line number and direction of the vehicle make no fun to re type
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tantek indeed - that makes sense - those are all excellent observations to capture as part of the problem description in your Itches list!
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82873&oldid=82872
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tantek issue-10
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trackbot is looking up issue-10.
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/10
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trackbot issue-10 -- Need candidates for social api -- open
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elf-pavlik SimonTennant, ahoy o/
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SimonTennant Hi Elf.
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elf-pavlik SimonTennant, sorry got distracted :( ... do you still work on http://buddycloud.com ?
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elf-pavlik tantek, thinking of XMPP made me think about Micropub. how do you see it fit Richardson Maturity Model? http://martinfowler.com/articles/richardsonMaturityModel.html
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tantek elf-pavlik: XMPP was proposed as a Federated Social Web option back in 2010 at the FSWS2010 but didn't go anywhere.
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tantek elf - never heard of "Richardson Maturity Model". appears to be clinging to strict REST as an assumption whereas we've found strict REST to be a non-starter due to failing to handle the real world static site use-case.
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elf-pavlik tantek, interesting point with static sites... also CDN
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tantek elf-pavlik: yes, strict REST is basically either dead or pure marketing due to growing use of static sites - and yes, CDN
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tantek so it's pretty dated and ignorable now
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elf-pavlik indieweb static website use rel="micropub" ?
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tantek also that "Figure 1: Steps toward REST" shows bad plumbing-centric design methodology, whereas we now know that to actually produce useful tools, minimal formats/protocols, we must start from user-centric design, use-cases, user-stories, and design downward to protocols/formats.
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aaronpk right, which allows a different system to handle API requests that can generate the static files
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tantek which turns out to be a surprisingly useful pattern
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tantek much more composable
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elf-pavlik rel="micropub" reminds me in a way http://schema.org/target
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tantek elf-pavlik: does Leonard Richardson have his own website which demonstrates his model about REST? or is he just a talker/writer on other people's silos?
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tantek a quick web search showed no obvious site for "Leonard Richardson"
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82874&oldid=82873
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tantek !tell harry I've updated the agenda with explicit items to discuss proposed items, chair/staff topics, and clustered all other items as proposed to make their status mor7B��ear. Please review: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17
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Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82875&oldid=82874
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82876&oldid=82875
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Loqi Bblfish made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82882&oldid=82880
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82884&oldid=82883
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