#social 2015-03-24

2015-03-24 UTC
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AnnB ;-)
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tantek it's important to study history so we don't keep repeating mistakes
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AnnB I totally understand
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tantek especially when it seems so easily forgotten
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AnnB I'm a big skeptic when it comes to dealing with vendors
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AnnB skunks, all
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AnnB haha
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tantek AnnB, it's also why a lot of us are so impatient / short with those who claim to build things but don't (for years)
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tantek history
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AnnB I understand
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AnnB dealing with humans ... we're all such a challenge, each in our own ways
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AnnB but that's what makes it interesting
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tantek after so many years of purely email back/forth, such things lose their interestingness
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tantek sigh, so much will be lost with the shutdown of code.google.com, e.g. this I found while searching for some more regarding vocabulary: https://code.google.com/p/jquery-ui-map/
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AnnB why are they shutting it down?
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AnnB and can't there be some sort of archive dump?
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AnnB I know nothing about that .. but agree in that it's sad to lose a big collection of knowledge
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AnnB ok .. g'night
bengo, bblfish, harry, tilgovi, jaywink, the_frey, the_frey_, SimonTennant, SimonTennant1 and elf-pavlik joined the channel
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elf-pavlik hello #social :)
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cwebber2 hey elf-pavlik
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cwebber2 did you see that tsyesika added mediagoblin things to that wiki page
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cwebber2 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/MediaObject#MediaGoblin all the localhost:6543 stuff could be removed, but this is an actual dump from the MediaEntry().serialize() function in a development MediaGoblin instance
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cwebber2 is that what you wanted / does that help?
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cwebber2 thanks for prompting us on that btw :)
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elf-pavlik cwebber2, thanks looks useful!
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elf-pavlik Tsyesika++
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Loqi Tsyesika has 5 karma
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cwebber2 :)
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cwebber2 Tsyesika++ indeed
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Loqi Tsyesika has 6 karma
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elf-pavlik i understand you use id as @id and objectType as @type ?
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elf-pavlik what about url?
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elf-pavlik "id": "http://127.0.0.1:6543/api/image/1/"
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elf-pavlik "url": "http://127.0.0.1:6543/u/tsyesika/m/me/"
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elf-pavlik i also notice that "author" has onlye "id" (needs webfinger) but no "url"
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elf-pavlik but that doesn't relate to MediaObject issue ;)
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elf-pavlik besides "image" and "fullImage" do you plan various size variants similar to https://www.flickr.com/photos/canon_chas/14405380943/sizes/l ?
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: keep in mind this is pre-activitystreams 2.0
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cwebber2 this is AS 1.0 via the pump api
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: and pump does webfinger style
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cwebber2 obviously that will change with the social wg's work
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: I'd like to have size variants.
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cwebber2 indeed, we already can support them
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cwebber2 well sort of
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cwebber2 and I'd like to support them more!
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cwebber2 we have a fixed number of resizings currently: thumb, [medium,] original
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cwebber2 but I'd like a less fixed list
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: does that help?
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cwebber2 re: id/url, I will leave Tsyesika to comment on that one.
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cwebber2 but that will have to happen when she's awake ;)
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cwebber2 (we are crashing with some friends in north hampshire!)
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elf-pavlik cwebber2, I will very likely use in prototype i play with http://npm.im/quickthumb
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: \o/
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elf-pavlik so we may also need a way to give UriTemplate
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: btw, re: the europe stuff, one thing that is disappointing that I've put a moratorium on personal conference travel for the year is that I'd love to meet you!
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cwebber2 hopefully next year.
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elf-pavlik if we do Europe in May, then Asia (TPAC) then most likey again 2x Americas so unlikely F2F next year in Europe
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elf-pavlik but hopefuly you can come over at some other occasion :)
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: can you make it to fosdem?
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cwebber2 maybe we can meet there.
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elf-pavlik i missed it this year but hope to come next year!
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elf-pavlik i'll try to get chrono to come by as well :)
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elf-pavlik he does some pretty cool stuff lately e.g. https://apollo.open-resource.org/flight-control/vfcc/#/dashboard/file/default.json
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: wow! I have no idea what I'm looking at but it's awesome somehow anyway
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Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/MediaObject]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83090&oldid=83071
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elf-pavlik do you rememver chrono? he did this visualization with gource and helped with few things to have it under /path on his domain ~3 years ago
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elf-pavlik he gets ready to launch his mobile hacklab project and that dashboard shows in real time how much solar energy it harvests
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: ohhhh, I remember gource!
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: I don't know chrono, but I do know some of the things he's done it seems
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elf-pavlik you mentioned him in http://mediagoblin.org/news/mediagoblin-0.3.0-rise-of-the-robogoblins.html
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cwebber2 ohhhhh!
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cwebber2 elf-pavlik: I have to use computers to annotate my memory; I didn't make a connection that this was the same chrono, but maybe I will remember in the future :)
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Contact_lists
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elf-pavlik i'll try to make demo with http://linkeddatafragments.org/ which will answer queries like
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elf-pavlik people who contributed to http://mediagoblin.com
jaywink joined the channel
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Loqi Pelf made 3 edits to [[Socialwg/Social syntax]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83093&oldid=82917
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cwebber2 heya all, just fyi
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cwebber2 Tsyesika and I will be participating in the call from IRC today, but not from VOIP
jaywink, bblfish, timbl and tantek joined the channel
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tantek good morning #social!
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elf-pavlik rhiaro, we could take a look together with bblfish on http://www.w3.org/2003/g/talk62/slides
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elf-pavlik also http://microformats.org/wiki/grddl
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travis-ci jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams#2 (master - 2c43d29 : James M Snell): The build passed.
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travis-ci Change view : https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/compare/f6c6df5f874d...2c43d290cde4
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travis-ci Build details : http://travis-ci.org/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/builds/55666841
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elf-pavlik jasnell++
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Loqi jasnell has 9 karma
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tantek good morning elf-pavlik!
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elf-pavlik good evening tantek
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tantek at the f2f Harry said GRDDL has been abandoned. I wonder if there is a citation for that?
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elf-pavlik i remember that
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elf-pavlik i mostly want to see what people have already done in terms of using mf vocab in RDF
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tantek I am less interested in automatic translation of mf vocabs to RDF just for the sake of RDFizing, and more interested in precise translation of mf vocabs to RDF that is transparently *usable* by existing RDF systems.
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tantek (am not sure it is even possible, but I expect it should/could be)
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elf-pavlik sounds good to me :)
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tantek this stuff isn't *that* different :)
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elf-pavlik agreed
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elf-pavlik aaronpk++ for adding explaination on file uploads with micropub! http://indiewebcamp.com/wiki/index.php?title=Micropub&action=historysubmit&diff=18228&oldid=18223
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Loqi aaronpk has 749 karma
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elf-pavlik also ben_thatmustbeme++
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tantek fascinating post about independent publishing vs. silos like Medium, from a *writer's* perspective: http://practicaltypography.com/billionaires-typewriter.html
eprodrom and AnnB joined the channel
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eprodrom Hello all
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tantek hello eprodrom
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cwebber2 hi eprodrom
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AnnB howdy all
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elf-pavlik hola!
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AnnB wow, this link from elf-pavlik is impressive: https://apollo.open-resource.org/flight-control/vfcc/#/dashboard/file/default.json
Zakim joined the channel
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elf-pavlik Zakim, code?
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Zakim sorry, elf-pavlik, I don't know what conference this is
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elf-pavlik Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim ok, elf-pavlik; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
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AnnB like you said, elf, not sure what I'm seeing .. is it illustrating how much lumens coming from sun, or ...???
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AnnB and, how does one put in their location?
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
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Zakim Attendees were
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tantek lolol Zakim, premature conference starting
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elf-pavlik Zakim alwasy in limbo :(
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elf-pavlik i already started draft email to https://www.w3.org/community/webzakim/ to invite them to work with Social IG
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elf-pavlik AnnB, that dashboard works for chrono's mobile hacklab
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cwebber2 arg can't call into zakim :(
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elf-pavlik for any location i can ask him to doploy some web base frontend for https://github.com/apollo-ng/UCSSPM
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AnnB uhoh .. why not? (It already was, from earlier today)
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eprodrom We've got another 7 minutes before the call starts, no?
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elf-pavlik eprodrom, yes
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AnnB yes, eprodrom
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elf-pavlik Zakim, code?
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Zakim the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), elf-pavlik
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cwebber2 eprodrom: yes
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AnnB hehe
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cwebber2 just that I can't seem to get a prompt
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eprodrom cwebber2: ohhhhh
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eprodrom OK. I think you can't join the call more than a few minutes ahead of time
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cwebber2 yeah, I can't get the voice even. I did about 10 minutes ago
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cwebber2 and now I don't
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AnnB oh, cwebber2 .. I thought you were saying I wasn't supposed to have posted that link to the cool web site .. <phew>
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cwebber2 it's always a gamble :(
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Loqi it'll be ok
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AnnB you're really talking about troubles getting in
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AdamB what a cool website ?
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elf-pavlik cwebber2, i can hear Zakim welcome message over SIP
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AnnB look at log .. or I'll give it to you separately (it's already in here 2x)
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elf-pavlik AnnB++
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Loqi AnnB has 14 karma
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cwebber2 I'm having okay with other SIP venues, but not zakim
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cwebber2 dreads opening ekiga every week
ben_thatmustbeme joined the channel
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ben_thatmustbeme oh, i'm back
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ben_thatmustbeme that was odd
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started
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Zakim +AdamB
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AdamB wow i was the first one
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AnnB rock on, Adam
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Zakim +ben_thatmustbeme
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elf-pavlik damn this softphone works great with zakim voice test but i can't dial code :(
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Zakim +Ann
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ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, mute me
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Zakim ben_thatmustbeme should now be muted
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Loqi aww, cheer up
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AnnB loqi, you're pretty funny
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ben_thatmustbeme wonders who loqi was saying that to..
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AnnB loqi++
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Loqi loqi has 343 karma
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AnnB dunno
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Zakim + +1.514.554.aaaa
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ben_thatmustbeme hey Evan
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ben_thatmustbeme Everyone survived the snow
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Zakim +??P7
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tantek zakim, ??p7 is me
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Zakim +tantek; got it
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ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, who is on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), Ann, +1.514.554.aaaa, tantek
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tantek zakim, aaaa is eprodrom
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Zakim +eprodrom; got it
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eprodrom Zakim, aaaa is me
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Zakim sorry, eprodrom, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'
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Zakim +Arnaud
jasnell joined the channel
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Zakim + +1.773.614.aabb
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cwebber2 that's me
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Zakim +jasnell
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cwebber2 Zakim, +1.773.614.aabb is me
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tantek zakim, aabb is cwebber2
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Zakim +cwebber2; got it
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Zakim sorry, tantek, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
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cwebber2 I'm on listen-only this call
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cwebber2 since I'm in a noisy area
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cwebber2 but I can type
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cwebber2 Tsyesika will have to be IRC only
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eprodrom Zakim, who is on the call
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Zakim I don't understand 'who is on the call', eprodrom
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eprodrom Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), Ann, eprodrom, tantek, Arnaud, cwebber2, jasnell
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ben_thatmustbeme rolls a D6
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cwebber2 ben_thatmustbeme: for post-meeting: "roll a d6" is a good song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54VJWHL2K3I
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cwebber2 :)
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eprodrom trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
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RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/24-social-irc
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trackbot RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent I have made the request, trackbot
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trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago
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trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot Date: 24 March 2015
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cwebber2 I can scribe
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cwebber2 since I can't talk anyway
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eprodrom Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim I notice T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has restarted
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Zakim On the phone I see AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), Ann, eprodrom, tantek, Arnaud, cwebber2, jasnell
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eprodrom scribenick cwebber2
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cwebber2 woo
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cwebber2 okay
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cwebber2 eprodrom: first order of business for today is to approve the minutes from 10th of march, unfortunately those minutes seem to not be prepared
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cwebber2 eprodrom: tantek, do you remember who scribed?
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cwebber2 tantek: let's see if I took notes
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cwebber2 ... looks like it was aaronpk
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cwebber2 eprodrom: great, I am going to open up an action
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eprodrom ACTION aaronpk upload the 2015-03-10 minutes to the wiki
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot Created ACTION-55 - Upload the 2015-03-10 minutes to the wiki [on Aaron Parecki - due 2015-03-31].
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cwebber2 eprodrom: okay unfortunately we can't confirm those
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cwebber2 ... hopefully we can move on
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cwebber2 ... next item is approval for minutes for face to face
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cwebber2 ... harry was putting those together but is not on the call
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cwebber2 ... I will do another action on harry to assemble the minutes from the face to face
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eprodrom ACTION harry Assemble the minutes from March F2F
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot Created ACTION-56 - Assemble the minutes from march f2f [on Harry Halpin - due 2015-03-31].
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cwebber2 AnnB: the minutes from the 10th of may are messed up
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cwebber2 AnnB: minutes from the 17th, sorry, not 10th
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cwebber2 cwebber2: probably my bad
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Zakim +Sandro
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cwebber2 AnnB: the irc log is correct, but the w3c has a bot that makes the minutes, this is the part that's screwed up
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cwebber2 ... something seems wacky
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cwebber2 ... sandro, do you know more?
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Zakim +??P11
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cwebber2 sandro: don't know, sorry, I think harry said he will clean them up manually
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rhiaro Zakim, P11 is me
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Zakim sorry, rhiaro, I do not recognize a party named 'P11'
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rhiaro Zakim, ??P11 is me
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Zakim +rhiaro; got it
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rhiaro Zakim, mute me please
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Zakim rhiaro should now be muted
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cwebber2 ... there's a problem where if a group meeting goes past midnight
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eprodrom rhiaro: can you mute please? I think you're getting some feedback
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cwebber2 AnnB: oh no the midnight problem
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cwebber2 sandro: harry claimed that problem
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Loqi Eprodrom made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-24]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83096&oldid=83050
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-10]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83097&oldid=82751
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-24]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83098&oldid=83096
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cwebber2 eprodrom: I think harry's on minutes from the march f2f, harry's on march 10th, so hopefully that can be done
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AnnB past midnight <somewhere in world> .. can't remember .. (we certainly did not meet past midnight in real life)
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cwebber2 ... minute approving is everyone's favorite part but we gotta skip it
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cwebber2 ... next meeting I think we have no conflicts, arnaud will chair
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cwebber2 ... that brings us to the next issue on the agenda which is the next f2f
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tantek I've added links to our IRC logs for the f2f and redlinked where the minutes will go here: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17#Social_Web_WG_Face_to_Face_Meeting_at_MIT_.28F2F2.29
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cwebber2 ... we had an idea come up in the f2f where we definitely will do a f2f at the next tpac in september, but would like to another between now and then
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Arnaud fyi, the command is "rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight" but we don't need this now
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cwebber2 ... there are a couple of candidates for times that would work, one is the upcoming meeting in paris, another is indiewebcamp in edinborough at the end of july
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eprodrom http://doodle.com/8fa27m9ryx6d26rb
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cwebber2 ... we have an open doodle poll with unfortunately the wrong dates, if you responded before you may need to do it again
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Arnaud +q
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Zakim sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... I'm not sure, do we want to close this poll at this point?
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tantek q?
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Zakim sees Arnaud on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... the big issue is we need to make a decision soon, if people make travel plans to paris in may, they need to do it in a week or two if not this week
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eprodrom ack Arnaud
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... would like to close this by the end of the week
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cwebber2 Arnaud: I'd like to move faster on it, I'm one of the people who have to make travel plans, it's hard to keep waiting
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cwebber2 ... there's not much debate, the main option seems to be the july one
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cwebber2 ... I'd be inclined to propose that we settle on the main dates in paris
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cwebber2 ... but do we have a host in paris?
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AnnB no, cwebber2 .. the main option is MAY
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rhiaro harry said he could book Centre Pompidou
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cwebber2 ... (correction: the main option is in may)
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cwebber2 cwebber2: thanks annb
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AnnB np
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cwebber2 Arnaud: harry said there was a place we can go to
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cwebber2 ... we can confirm later
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cwebber2 ... I encourage others to respond right now
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cwebber2 ... it seems to be a pretty clear cut to me (based on yes/nos)
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cwebber2 AnnB: even if there was an informal gathering, seems worth it
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ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, who is on the call
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Zakim I don't understand 'who is on the call', ben_thatmustbeme
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cwebber2 Arnaud: maybe we can give a few minutes, but then we can do 5 minutes then we can close on this?
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elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), Ann, eprodrom, tantek, Arnaud, cwebber2, jasnell, Sandro, rhiaro (muted)
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cwebber2 Arnaud: but I would like to have a decision
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elf-pavlik ? sensitive :S
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cwebber2 tantek: I think you need a confirmation from the host
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cwebber2 Arnaud: we can close on that pending confirmation from harry
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cwebber2 tantek: yes we can do that
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cwebber2 eprodrom: yeah, so we'll put this off to the end of the call so all of you can open your airline of choice in another browser window and see if you can make it oo the meeting. Let's see what we can do. I will push it off to the end of the hour, ok harry?
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cwebber2 er,
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cwebber2 ... (okay arnaud)
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cwebber2 eprodrom: we have some perpetual issues
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cwebber2 ... any activity on open issues/actions that we can close today?
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cwebber2 ... take a moment please to look at them and see what need to be closed
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cwebber2 *click clack*
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... okay if we have nothing
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cwebber2 tantek: looks like on 26(?) that I think that's been merged
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jasnell tantek++ for PR
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Loqi tantek has 170 karma
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cwebber2 ... so now it's back to see about more pull requests, thanks james for that merge
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Zakim +??P1
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elf-pavlik Zakim mute ??P1
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elf-pavlik Zakim, mute ??P1
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Zakim ??P1 should now be muted
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cwebber2 ... will keep going to see how far I can get with the examples
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tantek action-26
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trackbot is looking up action-26.
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RRSAgent sees no action items
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trackbot action-26 -- Tantek Çelik to Review microformats examples in AS2.0 specs -- due 2015-03-17 -- OPEN
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/26
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cwebber2 eprodrom: harry's got an action open, 37 for testing
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elf-pavlik Zakim, ??P1 is me
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Zakim +elf-pavlik; got it
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tantek action-37
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trackbot is looking up action-37.
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RRSAgent sees no action items
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trackbot action-37 -- Harry Halpin to Put forth the test suite plan using standard js tools -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/37
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cwebber2 ... i've kind of taken this on myself, I'd like to edit this action and have it defer
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cwebber2 ... I think there's no easy way to say it's closed
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tantek action-50
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trackbot is looking up action-50.
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RRSAgent sees no action items
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trackbot action-50 -- Evan Prodromou to Extract the examples from the main documents, pick properties and put together a test for those examples -- due 2015-03-24 -- OPEN
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/50
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cwebber2 ... because action 50 supercedes it
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cwebber2 ... but i will write it in the notes
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cwebber2 cwebber2: hopefully me too :)
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eprodrom supersedes
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cwebber2 eprodrom: any other actions we need to get moving?
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cwebber2 ... is henry on?
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ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, who is on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), Ann, eprodrom, tantek, Arnaud, cwebber2, jasnell, Sandro, rhiaro (muted), elf-pavlik (muted)
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ben_thatmustbeme no
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eprodrom bblfish: Are you on the call?
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cwebber2 ... henry / bblfish mentioned doing ontology examples for the activitystreams testing
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bblfish ah I am on another call too
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cwebber2 ... it would be great to see what tools we could use
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bblfish pretty complex
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cwebber2 ... oh okay sorry about that bblfish
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Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83099&oldid=83035
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cwebber2 ... given that I'd like to close up the open actions, we have a pretty big pile of issues on the agenda for today
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tantek are we looking at http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/raised ?
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cwebber2 ... I am going to try to get these, these are all on the f2f agenda, a few came over
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tantek to decided whether to accept / open them or not?
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cwebber2 ... we have a number for AS 2.0
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elf-pavlik eprodrom, Raised issues?
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cwebber2 ... I'd like to review our strategy for next steps for social api by end of the call
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tantek I recall Arnaud saying we should review raised issues
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cwebber2 ... I count 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 top level items here on AS 2.0
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cwebber2 ... jasnell brought up an issue around profiles
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cwebber2 ... maybe we should address it, let's throw it at the end
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cwebber2 ... let's start with the top one and move down
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cwebber2 ... we have a linked issue in actions, the issue is about as-link
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cwebber2 ... there's an action to gather options about media objects
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eprodrom elf-pavlik: yes
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elf-pavlik can only type
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cwebber2 ... elf-pavlik, are you on the call?
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cwebber2 ... okay elf-pavlik is on the call
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elf-pavlik softphone failed on me
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cwebber2 ... how are we doing on action 42
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elf-pavlik who reviewed https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/MediaObject ?
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tantek FWIW I don't know what use-case / user-story is used to justify as:link so I'm in favor of dropping it.
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cwebber2 ... this is the issue on media object
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AnnB wishes elf-pavlik had better audio options
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elf-pavlik trying another softphone
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ben_thatmustbeme as well
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cwebber2 cwebber2: btw, Tsyesika and I added info for mediagoblin
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cwebber2 cwebber2: eprodrom, fyi
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tantek though I'm really confused by the examples in issue-14
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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AnnB seems like a recurrent problem;
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cwebber2 eprodrom: is the question that we're going to change the activitystreams 2.0 object
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elf-pavlik i'll try audio but may make tons of noise
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cwebber2 ... and what specifically will get changed?
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cwebber2 ... that's my main question
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cwebber2 ... if this work is started I'd like to close this
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cwebber2 tantek: I think it's related but not the same
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elf-pavlik issue-14
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trackbot is looking up issue-14.
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trackbot issue-14 -- as:Link adds a lot of complexity, if we keep it we need to clarify consequences of using it instead of as:Object -- open
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/14
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cwebber2 ... issue 42 is related to issue 14 but not the same thing
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AnnB I mean, as a general matter, I wish you had better audio .. seems like this is a challenge each meeting
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elf-pavlik Zakim, unmute me
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Zakim elf-pavlik should no longer be muted
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AnnB so far so good..
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ben_thatmustbeme action 42 was to give us background on issue-14 i believe
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trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
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trackbot Error finding '42'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
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cwebber2 eprodrom: right, 14 is about links and 42 is about objects related to AS 2.0 vocab, I'm wondering why we clumped them together
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elf-pavlik Zakim, mute me
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Zakim elf-pavlik should now be muted
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cwebber2 tantek: I have a hypothesis
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cwebber2 Arnaud: no good to speculate, elf-pavlik put it for the f2f, let's let him explain himself
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elf-pavlik currently as:Link mostly serves as pattern for MediaObjects
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elf-pavlik tantek++
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cwebber2 tantek: let me quote from elf-pavlik in the related notes: the as2 spec only contains as:link or related info about media objects(?) so for other thing as-link not needed
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Loqi tantek has 171 karma
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cwebber2 tantek: so if we can remove as:link from media objects, then no need for as:link
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eprodrom http://www.iana.org/assignments/link-relations/link-relations.xhtml
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elf-pavlik me sorry guys, i made sure to have good audio for today but then couldn't dial code on pad of this softphone :(
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cwebber2 eprodrom: excellent point, but as:link particularly useful for link relationships, so the various link relationships defined for a number of items, so they're used in html as in on a tags and on link tags
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cwebber2 ... also used in atom
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cwebber2 ... a number of them used
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cwebber2 ... in activitystreams 1.0 used quite a bit
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jasnell +1 for keeping
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cwebber2 ... so the link element is pretty useful even if only in the as 2.0 system for media objects, I think they're important to keep in the system
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cwebber2 tantek: that would help a lot
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elf-pavlik i'll provide more examples where it makes processing much more convoluted
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cwebber2 ... because for now we don't have that information
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cwebber2 eprodrom: more convoluted than..... what is the alternative, not having it?
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elf-pavlik imagine as:Link as member of Collection for example
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cwebber2 ... any time we convey info in a system it's more convoluted than not having it in the system
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cwebber2 ... but then we don't have that info
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cwebber2 tantek: I think elf was trying to provide examples of conveying info without as:link, but that's in related examples
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elf-pavlik please review issue and wiki page and i'll get proper audo for next week!
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cwebber2 eprodrom: okay, I'd like to ask jasnell, please take the floor and address this
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cwebber2 jasnell: not totally sure I understand what elf-pavlik's argument is
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cwebber2 ... if we have as-link in there or not, we have to convey the same info
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cwebber2 ... so I don't see the argument.
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cwebber2 ... I guess I need more examples to work with
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cwebber2 eprodrom: seems unlikely to close this issue today, I suggest we leave it open and move on
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/MediaObject
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cwebber2 ... next item is also media object, it's a related issue
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cwebber2 ... if the issue has been updated I'm going to close this action since it's specifically about the wiki page
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cwebber2 ... would like to keep moving on
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cwebber2 ... we have action 44 which is about collections
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cwebber2 ... collection comparison
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tantek action-44
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trackbot is looking up action-44.
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RRSAgent sees no action items
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cwebber2 ... there's different ways to represent collections in as 2.0
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trackbot action-44 -- Pavlik elf to Collection - compare AS2 design with LDP, Hydra, Schema.org etc. -- due 2015-03-17 -- OPEN
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/44
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cwebber2 ... and it looks like the question is...........
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elf-pavlik someone offered adding LDP example to the wiki but never happended
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cwebber2 ... there's a collection comparison
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cwebber2 ... and with quite a few different collections
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Loqi Eprodrom made 3 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-03-24]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83102&oldid=83098
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cwebber2 ... I think the idea is we'll change the collection structure in as 2.0
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elf-pavlik no
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cwebber2 ... since the comparison is done I'll close this
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cwebber2 tantek: elf-pavlik says no
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cwebber2 eprodrom: oh
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elf-pavlik i would like if someone adds LDP examples
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cwebber2 tantek: I htink
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cwebber2 eprodrom: ok, can someone familiar enough with ldp examples to put it in the wiki page?
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elf-pavlik also we can discuss using ldp:Container instead of as:Collection if we use LDP as part of API
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cwebber2 ... ok, so... great.
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cwebber2 ... so can we or should we defer this?
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cwebber2 ... I'm going to close this option then we can move on with the rest of the call
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cwebber2 ... sorry, trying to balance out all the stuff we have here
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tantek is erik here?
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cwebber2 ... we're moving through issues but without actually resolving htem
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cwebber2 ... that may not be in our best interest
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cwebber2 tantek: perhaps we should skip issues if person assigned/raised is not present
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cwebber2 ... we can't seem to be effective without their presence
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elf-pavlik we CAN'T work only 1h a week during the call ...
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cwebber2 eprodrom: and some of these have been raised for a long time. I'm not sure we're closer to closing them than when we raised them.
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cwebber2 ... perhaps part of the effort is to get them closed
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AdamB do we need to get all the data in one place in order to close them ?
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AdamB to have the right conversation about it
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cwebber2 tantek: we can worry about that when closer to last call
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cwebber2 eprodrom: yes but some of them are fundamental, the core vocab around activitystreams, it will be hard to close these without examples
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cwebber2 eprodrom: it will be hard to do an implementation without these stabilizing
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cwebber2 ... we should stabalize these if moving towards implementations and testing them
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cwebber2 ... I'll pass on these, maybe we can move on
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ben_thatmustbeme Zakim, who is on the call?
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Zakim On the phone I see AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), Ann, eprodrom, tantek, Arnaud, cwebber2, jasnell, Sandro, rhiaro (muted), elf-pavlik (muted)
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cwebber2 ... question of separating grammar/vocab, I believe erik brought it
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cwebber2 ... question on identity/agent/persona/account
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tantek issue-17
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trackbot is looking up issue-17.
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trackbot issue-17 -- Identity, Agent, Person, Persona, Account etc. need clarifications -- open
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/17
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jasnell we can discuss that one briefly
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elf-pavlik also actor/author
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jasnell the identity, agent, account, persona, profile bit
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cwebber2 ... uhhh, previous conversations on... agent persona account profile?
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cwebber2 ... I'm not sure. Are these part of our vocabulary for activitystreams?
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jasnell we have objects in the vocabulary that deal with these
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cwebber2 ... I'm not sure we must address these if we aren't encoding them.
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cwebber2 ... we need clarification
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jasnell Actor, Person, Identity, Role, etc
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cwebber2 ... it would be nice if when we have items on the agenda, we have more stuff ready
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elf-pavlik i proposed in reply to agenda email to move inference to next week
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cwebber2 ... I'm sorry, unless anyone has something to say one of these, I have nothing to move us forward
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cwebber2 ... they are all complex issues
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cwebber2 ... maybe since we do have one person with voice on the call since it's this last one
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cwebber2 ... maybe we should discuss it
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cwebber2 ... jasnell discussed issue of structured profiles
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eprodrom https://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/26
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tantek issue-26
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trackbot is looking up issue-26.
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trackbot issue-26 -- Representing profiles in Activity Streams 2.0 -- raised
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trackbot http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/26
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cwebber2 jasnell: it's pretty simple, in many of our examples, social platforms we look at, the profile is pretty prominent
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cwebber2 ... but we lack profile in our vocabulary
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cwebber2 ... and it's not clear how to model that
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cwebber2 ... so taking a stand on user stories as example
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cwebber2 ... so maybe model profile as type of collection
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cwebber2 ... so tim added a profile, added items to it
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cwebber2 ... so maybe it makes sense to manage it as a collection
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cwebber2 ... so we could have a profile object
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cwebber2 ... we have an existing object, person
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cwebber2 ... is this sufficient as a profile
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elf-pavlik jasnell, in your email "@type": "foaf:name" doesn't make sense to me in terms of use rdf:type with rdfs:Property / rdfs:Class
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cwebber2 ... recognizing that anyone can have multiple profiles, and profiles can represent community
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cwebber2 eprodrom: I would strongly say that profile is a person
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cwebber2 ... maybe a person object, or maybe something more abstract like a product is a type of thing that maps very closely to a person, but with brands taking that organization role
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cwebber2 ... I think getting really abstract with profiles would be a bad thing
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... just treating a profile as a collection of name/value pairs might be worse than a profile object
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cwebber2 tantek: yes I'm curious what's driving this
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Zakim hears Sandro's hand up
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Zakim sees Sandro on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 jasnell: the user stories, I'm mapping the vocab to the user stories, to make sure those are coinciding
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tantek q?
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Zakim sees Sandro on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... so we have many objects in the vocab based on a number of use cases
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cwebber2 ... those are not mapped to the use cases themselves
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cwebber2 ... we have a distinct version of profile
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cwebber2 ... with no idea what a profile is
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cwebber2 tantek: good point, I see sandro on the queue fyi
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eprodrom ack Sandro
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 sandro: sure, so I think the profile as a container is kind of a problem
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cwebber2 ... I can't figure out the logic of what it would be the container of other than a reified object of (?)
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cwebber2 ... I mean, we could make it work but
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cwebber2 ... I think of a profile as a web page that has some info about the person or the object
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cwebber2 ... as long as we have ideas about the person or the profiles
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eprodrom q+
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Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... as long as we have different access control
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jasnell q+
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Zakim sees eprodrom, jasnell on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... eg internal company profile and public profile
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elf-pavlik I remember sandro discussing it on WebID list while ago
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cwebber2 ... and whether it's json or h-entries or rdf triples, we can do any by a web page
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cwebber2 ... plus I have a problem with a profile being a person
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cwebber2 ... it's not
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cwebber2 ... it manifests in the case of a person having multiple distinct profiles
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tantek waits for someone to raise the range issue that shall not be named. ;)
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rhiaro +1 profiles != persons
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cwebber2 ... it follows logically that there's different profiles, you have to distinguish between profiles and the person raising htem
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ben_thatmustbeme haha tantek, its going to happen
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rhiaro multipleprofiles++
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cwebber2 eprodrom: multiple profile per user seems awesome, we have no user stories that manage that, but it's a big pain to manage
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eprodrom ack eprodrom
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Zakim sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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Loqi multipleprofiles has 1 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme q+
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Zakim sees jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 eprodrom: so you have multiple profiles on facebook?
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elf-pavlik disussion from public-webid https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webid/2014May/0103.html
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cwebber2 cwebber2: (who's speaking aside from eprodrom ?)
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elf-pavlik sandro
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tantek q?
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Zakim sees jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 sandro: there's a page that's stuff about yourself, and there's a page that others see
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rhiaro multiple profiles is against facebook's TOS, but people do it because it's necessary for managing their social interactions
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cwebber2 eprodrom: so you see that as multiple profiles?
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AdamB q+
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Zakim sees jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme, AdamB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 tantek: no it's the same profile, but different acl's
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elf-pavlik i know people who have multiple accounts on both facebook and twitter
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tantek q?
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Zakim sees jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme, AdamB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 eprodrom: it's complicated, I can see doing it, but it didn't come up in our user stories
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cwebber2 ... tbh I'd rather get something done than do something complicated
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cwebber2 sandro: hr has a different profile than the person
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AnnB q+
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Zakim sees jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme, AdamB, AnnB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 eprodrom: I could see having multiple proifles as the general case, but it's def the most complicated case
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elf-pavlik rhiaro, could you document how it worked in BBC with named graphs?
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cwebber2 ... would be interesting to see if any apis we have can do it
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tantek watches the growing queue.
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elf-pavlik q?
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Zakim sees jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme, AdamB, AnnB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... obviously it would be a reparesentation of the person in json
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ben_thatmustbeme q- i think its been covered
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Zakim ben_thatmustbeme, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'
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rhiaro elf-pavlik: we didn't, just speculated about how
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eprodrom person class in as 1.0
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cwebber2 ... there's a person classin AS 1.0
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elf-pavlik ok
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ben_thatmustbeme q-
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Zakim sees jasnell, AdamB, AnnB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... that's what I'm referring to
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees jasnell, AdamB, AnnB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 sandro: I might need two distinct profiles
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cwebber2 ... one for personal stuff one for work
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cwebber2 ... those are logically the same
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees jasnell, AdamB, AnnB on the speaker queue
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eprodrom ack jasnell
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Zakim sees AdamB, AnnB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 eprodrom: that's possible, will go to the queue
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cwebber2 jasnell: so I would note that google plus as an example, as a system for multiple profiles
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cwebber2 ... every google employee has an internal profile
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cwebber2 ... as well as public
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elf-pavlik sandro, maybe worth adding it to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/More_user_stories
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cwebber2 ... every user can have multiple profiles
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cwebber2 ... one person with multiple identities
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cwebber2 ... kind of going back to it
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rhiaro Also G+ stuff ties into youtube, with multiple channels connected to one user account
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cwebber2 ... in every one of these examples, a profile is kind of a container
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cwebber2 ... a variety of things which are sub-categories of the profile
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AnnB s/back to it/back to original question, "how to model profile?"/
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cwebber2 ... managed independently, who i give htese with
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elf-pavlik can someone take ACTION to provide alternative to container based strategy proposed by jasnell ?
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cwebber2 ... same as g+, twitter, each of these has a container-like model which is there
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cwebber2 ... so it might not make sense to model it as a *collection*, but model it as a *container*
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cwebber2 ... the question is: if I'm going to model an activity as a container, what's the right way to model that in the syntax
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elf-pavlik NOTE very relevant to work happening in Credentials CG http://opencreds.org/specs/source/identity-credentials/
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cwebber2 ... as for how the api is concerned, how will we use the profile in the ??
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees AdamB, AnnB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... as for whether someone has more than one of not, it's a basic modeling problem
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eprodrom ack AdamB
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Zakim sees AnnB on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 AdamB: we don't see that as a ?? we see that as a something with a different ???
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ben_thatmustbeme This seems to overlap with profile and implies access controls on parts of profile Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Contact_Info
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AnnB s/as a ??/as a web page/
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cwebber2 we have different profiles on multiple systems, one additional profile with multiple systems, the example is a main profile with multiple systems
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cwebber2 ... so we can figure out how to move that between things
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elf-pavlik tantek, any comments based on rel="me" experience?
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cwebber2 ... we provide a bit of background on that, users can't change their hr data, but they can change other things
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cwebber2 ... so that's where it comes from
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eprodrom ack AnnB
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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Loqi Abasset made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Sorting user stories]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83103&oldid=82669
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cwebber2 AnnB: I would give those same examples, in addition we have multiple tools inside the company with people wanting to set up profiles, eg people setting up profiles in sharepoint and ?
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cwebber2 ... as well as hr data
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cwebber2 ... and our challenge is to pull them together in a cohesive manner
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ben_thatmustbeme q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... and establish their profile in one place, to handle it, how to represent it
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jasnell I would also note that systems that allow me to use third party authentication to create an account generally use a multiple profile model
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cwebber2 ... and not recretate it over and over
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cwebber2 ... that's our issue about federation
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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jasnell for instance, I use facebook to log into spotify but my spotify profile is separate from my facebook profile
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jasnell even tho they represent the same person
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cwebber2 eprodrom: james, I just want to ask, assuming we have a class something like as1.0 person, why not just do CRUD on that
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AnnB s/recretate /recreate/
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eprodrom CRUD on an AS 1.0 person
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cwebber2 ... eg, setters/getters on json document
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cwebber2 ... put it, get it, delete it, etc
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cwebber2 ... why isn't that about what we want to do?
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cwebber2 jasnell: if you look at first user story, you see that *foo* creates distinct profile adding hometown, blah blah
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cwebber2 ... how much to do actor kim updated actor kim, or does she update profile
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ben_thatmustbeme q+
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Zakim sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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elf-pavlik jasnell, can you please explain
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cwebber2 ... and how to update granularity of adding profile, phone number, occupation
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elf-pavlik {
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elf-pavlik "@type": "foaf:name",
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elf-pavlik "displayName": "Kim Smith"
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elf-pavlik }
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cwebber2 ... we want to add ? to the profile
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cwebber2 ... in whihc case we want profile as a unique thing
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cwebber2 ... eg adding profile to the object
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cwebber2 sandro: and how to update those parts
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elf-pavlik http://opencreds.org/specs/source/identity-credentials/ proposes PATCH
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cwebber2 jasnell: and how to update spotify vs facebook profile
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cwebber2 ... same ID to log into multiple services
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cwebber2 ... each ID may have multiple services
bengo joined the channel
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cwebber2 ... kim may be on both identi.ca/facebook, but they're distinct profiles
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cwebber2 sandro: I've noticed on facebook change, people can like the avatar change
tilgovi joined the channel
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cwebber2 jasnell: so yes, how much granularity to represent? the actions in the activitystream
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elf-pavlik rel="me" and http://schema.org/sameAs take same approach IMO
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cwebber2 eprodrom: how to manage the person updates one profile properties
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cwebber2 jasnell: I'm asking do we need to
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cwebber2 eprodrom: okay, a good question, can we capture that particular issue?
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cwebber2 ... I'd probably be... that's a finer point than the "how do we represent changes to the profile" not just how to represent it
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ben_thatmustbeme q-
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... would like to raise it as an issue
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eprodrom ISSUE how do we represent changes to a profile in an Activity
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trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
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ben_thatmustbeme dog is going nuts, you wouldn't be able to hear me
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cwebber2 jasnell: both issues are important, how to represent profile vs profile changes
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tantek q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 eprodrom: we are closing up on top of the hour and I want to represent changes
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eprodrom q?
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Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2 ... okay to close this and have multiple changes on it
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tantek I think profile is an area that can get ridiculous complex / deep end.
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tantek it's an area that needs simplification, not more options
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cwebber2 ... where we left social API at end of our F2F, we have a # of different approaches to APIs that we are coming at from different directions
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eprodrom micropub, AS 2.0-based JSON-y system, LDP adaptation
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cwebber2 ... one is micropub, another is an activitystreams 2.0 JSON'y system, another is an LDP implementation
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tantek I thought the three were micropub, pump.io, LDP ?
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tantek this is the first I've heard of "AS 2.0-based JSON-y system"
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tantek ok oh
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cwebber2 ... our interest was to solicit drafts
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cwebber2 ... json'y activitystreams 2.0 thing is probably pump.io updated to AS 2.0
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tantek I'd expect all the API candidates to be somewhat compatible with AS2
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tantek so I'm not sure how it's helpful to frame one in particular as "AS2.0-based"
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cwebber2 ... we want to solicit drafts, I don't think the other chairs will disagree with me in that we will probably not persue if we don't get drafts in for other candidates
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eprodrom micropub, pump.io API, LDP
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jasnell I've implemented an example server that derived from an LDP implementation but uses a AS 2.0 interface. I'll be open sourcing it soon and will have an example endpoint public hopefully later this week
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tantek maybe I'm being optimistic :)
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cwebber2 ... okay, sorry tantek, I will frame it as pump api as 2.0
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cwebber2 ... appreciate the correction
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cwebber2 ... we are seeking documentation on one or more proposals
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cwebber2 ... in everyone's interest to persue on our own
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cwebber2 ... tantek, Arnaud feel free to correct me, but if we don't get a proposal, we will not persue
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tantek btw drafts may simple normatively reference an existing *open* spec (license etc.) and provide examples
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cwebber2 ... tantek, Arnaud, is this fair?
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cwebber2 someone: yes, beep
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cwebber2 tantek: yes that's what we discussed at the f2f as something to consider
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cwebber2 ... an easier way for people to consider
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cwebber2 ... than just w3c submission style
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cwebber2 ... that's nice but not required
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Arnaud the someone was me but I have nothing to do with the beep :)
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cwebber2 ... as long as you have openly referenced doc
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cwebber2 ... as long as ??? convinces submit early, submit often
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cwebber2 eprodrom: haha, agree that makes sense
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Arnaud I'm impressed by Chris's scribing
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cwebber2 ... I encourage others look at oshepherd's activitypump 2.0 submission
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elf-pavlik https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Candidates#ActivityPump
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cwebber2 ... would love to encourage pump people to look at that
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cwebber2 ... for those who would like to look at that, talk to oshepherd, persue further
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cwebber2 ... my point on social api: make proposals sooner than later
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tantek I'd like to see submission that cite an existing working API proposal, and provide examples of how one or more user stories are done with the API
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cwebber2 ... talk amongst yourself about getting htem working
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tantek s/submission/submissions
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cwebber2 ... the other issue is talking about f2f in paris
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cwebber2 ... check ???
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tantek s/working API proposal/implemented API proposal
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cwebber2 ... we could do it as a proposed, with +1 voting, sound reasonable Arnaud ?
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eprodrom PROPOSED We have a meeting of the SocialWG in Paris May 4-5
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cwebber2 Arnaud: yeah sounds so, let's either doodle poll, or +1
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AnnB +1
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ben_thatmustbeme I think the doodle poll is fine
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elf-pavlik +1
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Arnaud +1
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cwebber2 eprodrom: sound about right?
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rhiaro +1
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eprodrom +1
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Tsyesika +1
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cwebber2 Arnaud: yes
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tantek +0
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cwebber2 +1
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ben_thatmustbeme +0 (i cannot make it)
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cwebber2 eprodrom: okay, so I think that carries
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tantek (also cannot make it)
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cwebber2 ... looks like we have a resolution
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cwebber2 sandro: let's make sure eveyrone understands ????
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cwebber2 ... that they're waiving their rights to 8 weeks notice
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AnnB =1
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cwebber2 ... because we haven't had 8 weeks notice
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eprodrom RESOLVED We have a meeting of the SocialWG in Paris May 4-5
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AnnB +1
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cwebber2 ... any objections please note
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cwebber2 ... otherwise will mark as resolved
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tantek pending host!
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cwebber2 ... and I will look for potential flights to paris
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tantek (just a heads up folks )
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elf-pavlik eprodrom++ cwebber2++
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Loqi eprodrom has 9 karma
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cwebber2 AnnB: let me just say that the advisory committee there is a discount at novotel for w3c
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cwebber2 ... and this discount qulaifies
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cwebber2 ... about $180/room
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Arnaud yes, we need to get confirmation from Harry that he can host ASAP
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cwebber2 ... I'll figure out how to sen dlink
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elf-pavlik please ask me for help with finding couchsurfing in Paris if interested!
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cwebber2 ... you have to send in a form
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tantek a fax?
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cwebber2 ... you get breakfast and wifi with the price
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Zakim -Sandro
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cwebber2 ... non-refundable
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cwebber2 ... fax works also
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cwebber2 ... it's south of the whatever, the eifel tower
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cwebber2 sandro: very central to paris
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cwebber2 AnnB: yes
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cwebber2 sandro: we have to figure out where it takes place
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cwebber2 AnnB: and it's only good until
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elf-pavlik cwebber2 Arnaud not sandro
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cwebber2 sandro: soon
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cwebber2 ahhhhhhhh
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ben_thatmustbeme s/sandro/Arnaud/
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cwebber2 cwebber2: this was a crazy call
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elf-pavlik cwebber2++
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Loqi cwebber2 has 22 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2: ++
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cwebber2 eprodrom: call to close, thanks for handling
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ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2++
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eprodrom trackbot, end meeting
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trackbot is ending a teleconference.
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trackbot Zakim, list attendees
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Zakim As of this point the attendees have been AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme, Ann, +1.514.554.aaaa, tantek, eprodrom, Arnaud, jasnell, cwebber2, Sandro, rhiaro, elf-pavlik
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Loqi cwebber2 has 23 karma
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Arnaud For more information about the hotel, please see:
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Arnaud https://www.w3.org/Member/Meeting/2015ac/May/#Accommodation
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Zakim -eprodrom
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trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/24-social-minutes.html trackbot
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Zakim -Ann
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trackbot RRSAgent, bye
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elf-pavlik how do we merge karma of cwebber2 and cwebber? ;)
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Zakim -jasnell
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RRSAgent I see no action items
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cwebber2 :)
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Zakim -tantek
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Zakim -AdamB
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ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2 not as crazy as 2 weeks ago
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Zakim -Arnaud
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Zakim -ben_thatmustbeme
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AnnB merged karma .. haha
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Zakim -elf-pavlik
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Zakim -rhiaro
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Arnaud "room block WILL BE RELEASED AFTER 4 APRIL"
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cwebber2 okay
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cwebber2 time to generate the stuff
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cwebber2 gonna take a typing break first :)
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tantek break earned :)
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ben_thatmustbeme indeed
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AnnB -------------
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AnnB I did some trial editing .. would like your opinions ..
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AnnB https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Sorting_user_stories
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ben_thatmustbeme trackbot looks like it failed to create the issue for how to represent changes to profiles in activity streams
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trackbot Sorry, ben_thatmustbeme, I don't understand 'trackbot looks like it failed to create the issue for how to represent changes to profiles in activity streams'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
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AnnB ben_thatmustbeme, are you seeking command to close the meeting?
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ben_thatmustbeme AnnB, no
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AnnB oh, ok
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Loqi Abasset made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Sorting user stories]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83104&oldid=83103
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ben_thatmustbeme <eprodrom> ISSUE how do we represent changes to a profile in an Activity
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ben_thatmustbeme -*- trackbot doesn't understand that ISSUE command.
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AnnB on this page, where Ben sorted out the user stories by # of votes: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Sorting_user_stories
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ben_thatmustbeme thst was what i was looking back on
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AnnB I added:
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AnnB 1) number of the user story in original list
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AnnB 2) a sample table for first set (all positive votes), in order to make it easier to read, AND to add a very brief word describing what the primary action is in that story
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AnnB would like feedback before doing more
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ben_thatmustbeme ISSUE: how do we represent changes to a profile in an Activity
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trackbot is creating a new ISSUE.
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trackbot Created ISSUE-27 - How do we represent changes to a profile in an activity. Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/27/edit>.
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ben_thatmustbeme there we go, it failed before, eprodrom missed the :
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eprodrom ah, perfect
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eprodrom ben_thatmustbeme: thanks!
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eprodrom I was going to do it by hand in the Web UI
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ben_thatmustbeme no problem
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ben_thatmustbeme its an interesting question, but I don't think there are any exmples of showing what part of a profile is updated, other than photos
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Loqi Abasset made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social API/Sorting user stories]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83105&oldid=83104
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tantek ben_thatmustbeme: there's actually a pretty big example of showing what part of a profile is updated other than photos: relationship status
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tantek perhaps even more "liked" and commented on that profile photo changes
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tantek *than profile photo changes
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tantek looks up a blog post
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ben_thatmustbeme relationship status is a good example
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tantek nevermind blog post - allow me to point you to some collected research on relationship status: http://microformats.org/wiki/relationship-status
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tantek and the *action* of changing relationship status: http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/heart (more collected research)
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Loqi Cwebber2 made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-24-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83106&oldid=0
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tantek alright, found the blog post on the subject - from *2010* (sigh) http://tantek.com/2010/336/b1/dating-preferences-public-profiles-formats-federating
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Zakim disconnecting the lone participant, cwebber2, in T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
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Zakim T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has ended
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Zakim Attendees were AdamB, ben_thatmustbeme, Ann, +1.514.554.aaaa, tantek, eprodrom, Arnaud, jasnell, cwebber2, Sandro, rhiaro, elf-pavlik
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tantek btw I think the profile question simutaneously shows why both "Person" and "actor" are actually bad design choices in AS(2)
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tantek I think Atom's "author" concept here avoids all these problems
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tantek and all the attributes one would assign a "profile" are actually just attributes of the "author"
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tantek that way it doesn't *have to* be a person, but it can be a person, an org, maybe even a product, a bot (sensor), or a weather phenomenon https://twitter.com/karlthefog
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AdamB hmm
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elf-pavlik same applies to agent or actor ... i start liking wikidata approach to identifiers which just use URIs not meaninful to human
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elf-pavlik signing out - ciao all!
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AdamB seems kind of strange saying an author is an expert .. i guess just simply because author seems to imply i published something but maybe i didn't
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tantek authors create posts
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AdamB no doubt
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tantek anything else is overthinking it IMO
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AdamB but it implies "i'm a publisher cause i'm an author" and not in call contexts is that true
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tantek an author *may* be a person, or an org etc. that's what the nested h-card (or other object) is for
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AdamB actor can be an org, a person, a system
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AdamB and it doesn't implied i actually did anything with it
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tantek you're a publisher as soon as you create a post at a permalink
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tantek I don't know what a call context is
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tantek I don't see any need for the "actor" concept
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AdamB "i just am" :)
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tantek IMO actor is a semantic fork mistake from Atom's author
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AdamB i'm not suggesting actor is the solution ... just suggesting that i'm not sure author makes sense either :)
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tantek but for some reason AS(2) seems to cling to "actor" so meh
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AdamB gotcha on the Atom fork
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tantek except author was first, in Atom, and has been thus adopted in hAtom, hentry, and h-entry
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tantek thus burden of proof is on AS(2) to demonstrate a signficant advantage to "actor" above and beyond "author"
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AdamB why would that be the case?
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tantek because author was first
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AdamB the spec already has actor but not author in it right ?
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AdamB in Atom ?
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AdamB i'm just asking questions
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tantek (and frankly I don't believe any such advantage exists for "actor", because we've built most of the semantics or popular AS concepts without needing "actor", just by using "author")
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tantek AdamB - exactly. re-use over renaming.
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jasnell fyi... https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2015Mar/0165.html
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jasnell Question is: should we alter the way Connect and FriendRequest are currently modeled to better reflect common use or should we remove Connect and FriendRequest from the core vocabulary and work on a more complete definition as a separate work item
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jasnell Argument in favor of removing is that it simplifies the core vocabulary at the cost of additional work later
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jasnell Either way, however, the current definition does not really adequately address common use as exemplified in existing social platforms
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AdamB does removing make it easier to extend it?
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AdamB for different types of connections?
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jasnell If we remove it, we have the option of creating a separate document (e.g. a Note) that gives a more complete treatment
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AdamB Following, mutually following, mentor / mentee
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AdamB gotcha ....
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AdamB as a note it's not required to implement right ?
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jasnell as an extension vocabulary we can define a richer model for connection types independently from the core AS vocabulary, which helps simplify our core vocabulary
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jasnell right, notes would be optional to implement
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AdamB yeah maybe it would be faster and easier to implement like that
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jasnell would allow more experimentation as well
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AdamB little bit ago tantek was suggesting using "author" instead of "actor"
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jasnell if you look at the current vocabulary definition, author is replaced with "attributedTo" and "actor" is a sub-property of "attributedTo"
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jasnell it doesn't make much sense in an activity like "James arrived at Home" to say that "James" is the "author"
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jasnell Another item: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2015Mar/0166.html
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jasnell Removing Activity Types not used by User Stories
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AdamB i can see what you are saying
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jasnell I'm going to be switching locations. will be offline for just a bit
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Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed
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