#social 2015-05-16
2015-05-16 UTC
bengo, bblfish, jasnell, tilgovi, almereyda, LCyrin and jasnell_ joined the channel
# 
elf-pavlik raucao, next week in Berlin! http://dtn.is/ “Terra nemo” is a Latin expression meaning “No man’s land”. Data Terra Nemo is a technical conference for discussing the ideas behind systems and protocols without centralized ownership and how they impact the landscape of the Internet.
# elf-pavlik i know people who coordinate this event and could ask them to give you a ticket :)
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# elf-pavlik rhiaro, could you maybe also support "Accept: application/ld+json" on http://rhiaro.co.uk/activities for easy use in http://json-ld.org/playground/ ?
# elf-pavlik this way we can share playground links like http://tinyurl.com/npswymb
# elf-pavlik which simply points JSON-LD playground to load remote document :)
# elf-pavlik rhiaro++ http://tinyurl.com/n99wn77
# elf-pavlik {
# elf-pavlik "@type": "me:Consume",
# elf-pavlik "actor": "about#me",
# elf-pavlik "object": "http://llog.rhiaro.co.uk/1431704069",
# elf-pavlik "published": "2015-05-15T16:34:29+01:00",
# elf-pavlik "result": "http://llog.rhiaro.co.uk/1431704069"
# elf-pavlik }
# elf-pavlik :D
# elf-pavlik you could create Meal object
# elf-pavlik maybe with something like http://schema.org/TypeAndQuantityNode
# elf-pavlik Meal could have http://schema.org/includesObject
# elf-pavlik we can discuss it in https://www.w3.org/community/restonto/ ;)
# elf-pavlik BTW have you seen http://openmensa.org ?
# elf-pavlik you can still have object with type Meal and just use textual description for now
# 
Loqi @elfpavlik :: @openmensa would you like to join https://www.w3.org/community/restonto/ ? interop++ custom_parsing--
# elf-pavlik
{ "@type": "me:Consume", "displayName": "eate an apple", "object": { "@type": "me:Meal", "displayName": "an apple" }}# elf-pavlik this way you could easily upgrade it to use strucutred data while still keeping simple "displayName" (value)
# elf-pavlik better starts publishing it himself instead bothering rhiaro :)
# elf-pavlik oops
# elf-pavlik maybe you could store all payloads so you can later play them back ?
# elf-pavlik i'll try out at some point http://git2prov.org/
# elf-pavlik Values expected to be one of these types
# elf-pavlik Place
# elf-pavlik PostalAddress
# elf-pavlik i think geo: URI also fit here
# elf-pavlik maybe Write activity would have location (you wrote it somewhere)
# elf-pavlik but its result h-entry would have createdAt property or something like that
# elf-pavlik AS2 core already includes dc: and dct: prefixes http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/#compact-iris
# elf-pavlik dct:spatial seems older and more established than mf2:location
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# elf-pavlik adds invitee, Invite and Invitation to https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab
stevenroose, bblfish_ and melvster joined the channel
# elf-pavlik gold?
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# elf-pavlik melvster, deoploying gold server sounds like steep entry just to generate WebID certificate, once again i recommend checking out super nice setup guided experience offered by https://indiecert.net/
# elf-pavlik bblfish, http://webid.info/ maybe could provide way to generate certificates?
# elf-pavlik http://databox.me/ doesn't allow me to specify my WebID :D
# elf-pavlik if i just want to generate cert
# elf-pavlik melvster, it does what it needs and people who use HTTPS can also use their WebID certificates
# elf-pavlik as you see as of today WebID can give someone a really hard time just to bootstrap and give it a try
# elf-pavlik while indiecert bootstrap takes < 5min and guides person step by step
# elf-pavlik does http://webid.info/ have issues tracker?
# elf-pavlik if it doesn't support HTTPS WebIDs i'll file issue and work with fkooman on fixing it
# elf-pavlik melvster, i hope you took some time to understand how indieauth/indiecert work and why fkooman decided to only support HTTPS ...
# elf-pavlik melvster, re: "existing webid user base" i read all the 15-20 people using WebID-TLS
# elf-pavlik melvster, can you name all those *many* people? besides those who you already mentioned maybe only rhiaro uses WebID-TLS and i'll add it as it becomes more friendly to bootstrap
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# elf-pavlik ok deiu & sandro as well, i still may overestimated saying 15-20 people ...
# elf-pavlik aaronpk, do you have any statistics on how many people uses IndieAuth? i guess most of them as of today use https://indieauth.com/
# elf-pavlik once again jaywink++ for http://the-federation.info/
# 
melvster1 elf-pavlik: im not sure what point you are trying to make
# melvster1 other than to try and belittle another community which i dont find cool
# elf-pavlik http://indiecert.net starts enabling everyone who uses IndieAuth to use client certs
# melvster1 if you want to improve the user experience why dont you work on that?
# melvster1 but people dont try and put other communities down
# elf-pavlik i see myself willing to give WebID-TLS a try but as of it current state not really seeing myself very coninced of it usability
# melvster1 i find that very hard to believve
# melvster1 you took 2 years to add turtle to your profile
# melvster1 you criticize it every chance you get
# elf-pavlik not only criticize but try provide constructive feedback, like adding <script type="text/turtle"> ... </script> for much easier bootstrapping
# melvster1 if you were really interested you would have followed the spec
# elf-pavlik and taking inspiration from indiecert on how service can help someone to bootstrap in < 5min
# elf-pavlik so far support you could offer me on bootstrapping my WebID-TLS 1) suggestion to try deploying 'gold' server 2) sending me to http://databox.me which doesn't really let me generate cert for my independent WebID
# melvster1 elf-pavlik: rtfm
# elf-pavlik it may corelate to current 'existing webid(-tls) user base' which i still think includes < 15 people
# melvster1 i dont know where you get those stats
# elf-pavlik reading http://webid.info/
# elf-pavlik and searching for *Try it!* similar to one on https://indiecert.net/
# elf-pavlik most likely inspired by *Try it!* on https://indieauth.com/ which would take one to 1. 2. 3. done! https://indieauth.com/setup
# melvster1 elf-pavlik: read the spec, why not try and create the user experience, if you like it, why didnt indiecert support the existing work and converge, rather than trying to diverge, i dont respect you trying to belittle a community for being small, with made up statistics ...
# elf-pavlik melvster, do you refer to fkooman's choice of requiring HTTPS for WebIDs which want to delegate IndieAuth to https://indiecert.net ?
# elf-pavlik bblfish, http://indiewebcamp.com/indieauth does
# elf-pavlik currently https://indiecert.net/ pretty much enables people to use IndieAuth protocol with their client certificates
# melvster1 yes
# elf-pavlik what do you mean 'one web site only' ?
# elf-pavlik one can use it with *any* relying party which implements https://indiewebcamp.com/distributed-indieauth
# elf-pavlik see for example this Micropub client (server side one) https://reader.kylewm.com/
# elf-pavlik you can enter there: https://wwelves.org/perpetual-tripper
# elf-pavlik bblfish.net needs to show me input field where i can enter URI of my online identity
# elf-pavlik bblfish, after you add HTTPS to you website try: https://indiecert.net/ and enter https://bblfish.net
# elf-pavlik indiecert supports sites which use https://www.cacert.org/ for HTTPS
# elf-pavlik cool, you'll see that indiecert.net will get you going in < 5 minutes
# melvster1 bit it's centralized
# elf-pavlik it may still have bug for identities with # but i will ask fkooman to work on fixing it
# melvster1 webid is decentralized
# elf-pavlik melvster, how centralized ?
# melvster1 it depends on indiecert.net
# elf-pavlik no!
# melvster1 webid doesnt have any dependency
# melvster1 webid just depends on web standards such as HTTP and follow your nose
# melvster1 there's no trusted third party there
# elf-pavlik melvster, possibly you don't understand https://indiewebcamp.com/distributed-indieauth
# elf-pavlik trusted third party != centralized
# elf-pavlik i can choose my trusted third party including running one myself
# melvster1 compared to webid it is
# elf-pavlik and it all works by 'follow your nose'
# melvster1 webid just uses http and x.509
# melvster1 if indiecet.net went down no one would able to log in anywhere
# melvster1 that's centralization
# melvster1 yes
# elf-pavlik melvster1, i can host my own <link rel="authorization_endpoint" >
# melvster1 yes but at this point in time its not convergent
# elf-pavlik sorry but i find what you talk nonsens, IMO based on not taking time to understand particular technology before developing opinion about it
# melvster1 bblfish++
# elf-pavlik nonsense i refered to http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-05-16/line/1431782993007
# 
bblfish This http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol looks very much like OpenId
# elf-pavlik sorry but i will not try to explain it here :|
# elf-pavlik runs to prepare salad
# melvster1 if indiecert.net went down no one would be able to log in, at this point in time, with webid tls, you'd need the whole internet to go down
# melvster1 yes
# melvster1 true
# melvster1 but if they supported webid then the whole webid community could reuse the work
# melvster1 its another example of divergence
# melvster1 me too
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# 
melvster elf_pavlik_: I would not recommend your pattern of self hosting to casual users, but GOLD contains a cert gen ... please dont expect individual 1 on 1 support, there's a mailing list for webid, which is the best place to go for questions, i believe you've posted support queries on there before, and they've been answered quickly https://databox.me/,system/newCert
# 
aaronpk http://indiewebcamp.com/IndieAuthProtocol looks kind of like OpenID Connect because both are an identity layer on top of OAuth 2.0
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# elf-pavlik melvster, can you point me to site supporting WebID-TLS login and using Nginx? I would like to take a look at how one configures Nginx for WebID-TLS
# elf-pavlik bblfish, maybe you have link to configuring WebID-TLS login with Nginx? ^
# elf-pavlik melvster, any simple guide comparable to https://indiecert.net/rp
# elf-pavlik 'new' ?
# elf-pavlik i hope you understand why i don't consider WebID-TLS a technology ready for wide adoption
# elf-pavlik while i very much like it as pioneering experiment
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# elf-pavlik hopes melvster noticed dates from 2012
# elf-pavlik melvster, have you looked at https://indieauth.com/gpg
# elf-pavlik aaronpk, i think IndieCert should use rel="publickey" instead of rel="me"
# elf-pavlik eg. this line on my homepage <link rel="me" href="ni:///sha-256;Jppu8cEVKIdh-1MqyL3IIMJG5gwI3cb6kA-NmznmPS4?ct=application/x-x509-user-cert" />
# elf-pavlik melvster, If you use gpg from the command line you can sign a text message with the following command.
# elf-pavlik $ echo '(message from indieauth)' | gpg --sign --armor
# elf-pavlik needs to catch some sleep and tomorrow start preparing for http://dtn.is/
# elf-pavlik gnight melvster!
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