#social 2015-06-10
2015-06-10 UTC
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# 
jasnell melvster: just fyi, urn:example is defined within RFC 6963 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6963). It's usage within spec examples is correct. That doesn't mean the identifiers can't be improved. That point was raised 6 months or so ago but no one ever got around to fixing them
# jasnell ben_thatmustbeme: thanks for the PR, I'll review it in detail when I'm back from vacation. fwiw, I never said that reverting would be difficult, just that it wasn't simply a matter of a quick revert, the additional changes would need to be factored in and I didn't have time or inclination to do that particular bit of work. If someone commits to helping keep the purely informative examples up to date and correct, then I've no problem keeping tho
# 
ben_thatmustbeme I will commit to working on them and rhiaro had mentioned similar
# ben_thatmustbeme The PR was a revert only. I know the examples will need top be updated as well
# ben_thatmustbeme Actually any name changed I tried to reflect as well
# jasnell my key challenge with the microformats examples specifically is that (a) they are lossy, (b) they do not reflect what implementers are actually doing (which, as I understand it, is a key rule of microformats)... I literally pulled some of the bits out of thin air and (c) the actual syntax of the examples was incorrect.
# jasnell so at best, even if the examples are updated to show "correct" microformats, a note should be added saying that the example is (1) purely informationational and (2) likely does not reflect any actual implementation at least until a spec describing a reasonable mapping of the AS2 model into microformats exists
# jasnell ben_thatmustbeme: if you and rhiaro are willing to step up to handle those, I would be willing to give you both commit access to the repo so that you can make those changes directly. However, I would ask that you use PR's to land (as opposed to commits directly to master) and cc me on the PR's so that I'm aware of and can track the changes
# ben_thatmustbeme To be clear you are talking mf2 to jsonld mapping. Why would jsonld mapping to mf2 be needed?
# ben_thatmustbeme The idea is to give examples that will convert to the base json-ld. Not the other way around
# ben_thatmustbeme Regarding not committing to master, That's certainly fair
# ben_thatmustbeme On mobile right now so not so easy to give long responses
# ben_thatmustbeme That's mainly because these would require numerous new tags. I may just do these as prefixed tags and thus for now it would be valid mf2 and not be lossy
# ben_thatmustbeme Ideally anyway
# ben_thatmustbeme Yes that's my handle and no I only ended up with the vocabulary document
# ben_thatmustbeme Understandable. And I'll update the pr with that
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AnnB a big sunny Seattle good morning to the #social world!
# AnnB thanks elf for setting the topic
# 
elf-pavlik hi AnnB
# elf-pavlik today i can only join on IRC :(
# AnnB I don't seem to be able to do that from within browser
# AnnB oh, darn
# AnnB I'm proposing the IG 'hang out' in this channel, for general chat
# AnnB but that we scribe our meeting in #socialig
# elf-pavlik if we scribe here, people who follow log will know what happens in IG
# AnnB elf suggests we should hold our meeting here
# AnnB various people have said one or the other ... I'm not clear which is preferred
# elf-pavlik and it seams that only common members of both IG and WG stay on IRC between meetings
# AnnB they could, elf, just as easily follow along on #socialig
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# elf-pavlik it takes checking 2 channels instead of just one... plus other channels people already check
# AnnB I understand
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# elf-pavlik Zakim, what conferences?
# AnnB it's just a matter of taking over the channel, when others may want to be talking about stuff
# elf-pavlik Zakim, this will be SOCIG
# AnnB ok, here's a suggestion... we'll hold our meeting here, right now, and see what happens
# elf-pavlik +1
# AnnB trackbot, start meeting
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# 
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/10-social-irc
# elf-pavlik Zakim, this will be SOCIG
# AnnB uh oh .. that's not OK .. trackbot has to get aligned to the IG meeting
# elf-pavlik i just told zakim which meeting happens here :)
# AnnB you're good on those commands
# elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
# elf-pavlik Zakim, code?
# elf-pavlik looks like it works fine
# AnnB trying to dial ... getting busy signal
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# guangyuan Zakim, ?P3 is me
# guangyuan zakim, ??P3 is me
# Lynn zakim, who is on the call?
# Lynn zakim, ??P1 is me
# elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
# Lynn hi elf!
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# AnnB agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-06-10
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# AnnB zakim, .aaaa is Lloyd_Fassett
# Lynn zakim, who's on the call?
# Lloyd_Fassett zakim, +1.541.848.aaaa is me
# EdK_ zakim, aabb is EdK
# Lloyd_Fassett zakim, aaaa is Lloyd_Fassett
# elf-pavlik (IRC only) since we have next general telecon in 2 weeks, maybe worth mentioning Zakim going down in 20 days? http://www.w3.org/2015/07/zakim.html
# AnnB yes, that's true
# elf-pavlik action-7
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# elf-pavlik oops we still used W3C IG trakcer for that :D
# AnnB Sandro is trying to find out the WebEx info
# elf-pavlik sandro++
# AnnB Harry had the action, but is off at a class or somethign
# AnnB minutes from last meeting:
# AnnB one change: Guangyuan and Amy were both at the Paris F2F as well
# elf-pavlik Zakim, who's on the call?
# AnnB ok
# elf-pavlik also IRC only today
# AnnB Guangyuan: <gives his overview of how F2F was for him>
# AnnB oh no, lost you!
# EdK_ Guangun: From F2F, Vocabulary could have interaction with microformats and activity streams
# AnnB s/Guangun/Guangyuan/
# guangyuan I will connect again, it seems like happen all the time.
# AnnB darn
# elf-pavlik i moved this out of W3C tracker "existing alignment between h-event / ical: & h-card / vcard: & h-geo / geo": - https://github.com/w3c-social/social-vocab/issues/13
# EdK_ AnnB: 3 different technical communities discussed social api with code examples, and Guangyuan noted that it could be useful in considerations for vocabulary
# guangyuan zakim, ??Ps is me
# guangyuan zakim, ??P3 is me
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# EdK_ AnnB: CAll to approve minutes as corrected (who was at F2F)
# EdK_ +1
# guangyuan +1
# EdK_ AnnB: minutes approved.
# EdK_ AnnB: Last week was Use Case TF, will next week be Use Case or Vocabulary call?
# AnnB for the upcoming agenda, we need to know
# AnnB who's meeting when
# AnnB ?
# AnnB EdK: proposes we just stick on Use Case TF for a few weeks, so we make progress
# AnnB AnnB: +1
# EdK_ EdK: propose making more progress on Use Cases and provide continuity, especially as we get up to speed on GitHub.
# guangyuan +1
# AnnB OK .. next meeting will be Use Case TF
# EdK_ AnnB noted no proges over the week on Use Cases (by looking at GitHub)
# AnnB anyone find GitHub tutorials they liked?
# elf-pavlik i just sent my super over due tips to mailing list: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-interest/2015Jun/0010.html
# guangyuan This might help: https://guides.github.com/
# EdK_ Thanks elf, read your email and it really helps!
# elf-pavlik KevinMarks, could you please reply to User posts a file use case? https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr/issues/5
# AnnB cool, thanks elf!
# AnnB thanks on that Guangyuan
# AnnB it's not that hard, but regardless, always a barrier to learn a new tool
# AnnB Vocabulary TF .. status?
# EdK_ AnnB: Anyone able to give status on Vocabulary task force?
# EdK_ Some discussions are going on in GitHub
# elf-pavlik KevinMarks, also please give feedback on https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr/issues/3
# EdK_ Arnaud is one of the chairs in the Working Group and very welcome to the meeting!
# AnnB cool, Harry
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# elf-pavlik BTW working with a friend on live demo for https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Groups
# AnnB elf, there are some social IG open issues in GitHub .. are those active?
# AnnB or are those your personal to-do's
# AnnB yes
# AnnB status on those?
# elf-pavlik i work step by step on many of those, glad if other participants help with issues they find important
# EdK_ Arnaud: need to establish a protocol about what tool for what effort.
# elf-pavlik e.g. Extract Vocabulary requirements from API User Stories
# EdK_ SocialIG group has defined GitHub for resolving Use Cases with minor objections, we're just trying to get up to speed on the tool itself.
# EdK_ Need to discuss future of IG - what is our goal, is it in support of WG or independent, ir is there even a real role for the IG
# elf-pavlik this one we could close i hope: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-interest/issues/7
# EdK_ We do have a different constituency, but we need to gain traction and focus or call it a day
# EdK_ Sandro will be taking on some of the W3C responsibilites and was asking what the IG effort is
# AnnB oh darn, guangyuan
# EdK_ Lynn: feeling like working on the fringes, social isn't core to her expertise
# EdK_ Key business need is to use these technologies to improve our workflow.
# EdK_ Some may be straight forward logistics, but some can be improved with social. And specific value comes when there is discussion involved, such as trip justification
# elf-pavlik Lynn, http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams2-vocabulary.html#dfn-relationship relates directly to our conversations in https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs/issues/12
# EdK_ Perspective from financial use cases will add value too
# EdK_ Lloyd: use case sounds like more of a vendor issue, perhaps our place in the world is when organizations cross each other.
# EdK_ Opportunity is for group to discuss more implementation.
# EdK_ Don't have a lighthouse organization saying how we need to connect across organizations
# EdK_ q+
# Lynn What Lloyd is saying makes sense to me
# AnnB +1
# EdK_ AnnB: Tantek regularly points out how important implemented code is to keep from theoretical that may never happen.
# elf-pavlik Lloyd_Fassett it looks like you still didn't accept invite to https://github.com/w3c-social
# Lynn elf, yes for sure, have been studying AS2.0
# EdK_ Lloyd: IG could/should be more of a business flavor, and defining more future based, problems.
# EdK_ Making connections across organizations, having external interactions is a big gap - there is no way to do so today,
# elf-pavlik EdK_ could you please later give me your github username?
# EdK_ Sure elf
# AnnB Lloyd: interested in 'social' for HR development
# AnnB EdK: longer-term interest is how social capabilities are federated
# AnnB ... ok to start with single-instance capabilities
# AnnB ... but we (big companies) will be stuck with interoperability problems, inhibiting federation across companies
# AnnB ... if we don't get to the federation standards
# AnnB ... we cannot ever use just one vendor solution
# AnnB ... we (Ford) don't want to have to do the integration
# AnnB ... how do we do the "internet of social"?
# AnnB Lynn: I work with peer-to-peer orgs ... same problems
# AnnB Arnaud: reacting to Lloyd's comments, saying that AnnB's travel workfloww could be solved by one vendor
# AnnB ... actually harder than you think; need solution that needs to be integrated
# EdK_ Arnaud: First in response to Lloyd re travel approval use case. while it could be solved with current solution, the bigger question is can we solve in broader method?
# AnnB ... IBM has same problems
# AnnB ... tools from many vendors
# AnnB ... therefore need standards
# elf-pavlik do we have use case for that *travel approval* ?
# AnnB or any workflow, elf
# EdK_ ... enabling product across vendors, across platforms, across use cases
# elf-pavlik i remember hearing this 'travel approval' use case during F2F, sounds like something possibly worth to capture...
# EdK_ Arnaud: history of IG was it was a public area where WGs wre closed. Now that WGs are more open, so IGs don't play the same role.
# EdK_ ... usefullness will come from trying to achieve goals like use case effort
# EdK_ ... does provide broader discussion base, so WG can be focused and more narrow
# EdK_ There was a generic purchasing approval developed by the original business community, prior to the IG forming
# EdK_ ...purchasing approval use case
# elf-pavlik we have this old issue originaly captured on IG wiki: "Not duplicating vocabulary work with the Social Business Working Group" https://github.com/w3c-social/social-interest/issues/1
# AnnB is back
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# AnnB EdK: one of particular interests of this use case is that the participants aren't necessarily in same system or company
# AnnB ... social environment becomes the aggregator for the ordering process
# AnnB ... in "scenario" format
# EdK_ Wrapup: a lot of examples and contribution, AnnB appreciates the examples people bring as well as how they might contribute to the vocabulary
# EdK_ Lynn volunteered to start an issue in GitHub.
# EdK_ Next meeting is on use cases
# EdK_
# AnnB trackbot, end meeting
# RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/10-social-minutes.html trackbot
# AnnB 541.410.aaaa was Lynn Foster
# AnnB 313.594.aabb was Ed Krebs
# AnnB ------------------------------------------------
# AnnB so, will be interested to hear from #social folks, if you liked or were annoyed or were neutral on having IG meeting scribed in this channel?
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# ben_thatmustbeme AnnB: really makes no difference to me, I am always in both chats
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# AnnB ben_thatmustbeme, and Arnaud, -- I saw your comments in #socialig this morning, thinking the meeting would be scribed there
# AnnB sorry for the confusion; I thought the same
# AnnB elf felt strongly we should scribe the meeting here ... bringing peace and love to the world
# AnnB (well, he didn't quite say it like that)
# AnnB so I agreed, thinking we could try it out
# AnnB if WG people objected, we could go back to #socialIG for meetings
# AnnB thanks to you tantek and ben_thatmustbeme, for your follow-on support comments
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