melvsterhi all, I sent a mail to the list ... regarding the creation of an architecture document for the social web ... anyone in this channel interested in helping? rhiaro, interested?
melvsterelf-pavlik: an excellent start, but what I envision is a stand alone document for those familiar with the web, that builds on this, and talks about building people centric and relationship driven systems
melvsterelf-pavlik: so that's an excellent start, what I would suggest is to think about the importance of the social graph, when I was asking about boeing they have some really interesting use cases around profiles, relationships, discovery and search -- which are all read only operations -- then we can talk about what the ability to write to the social graph brings ... and how to do this using HTTP, URIs etc.
rhiaro_hey melvster. Interesting discussion.. you've mentioned prerequisites to social web or user stories a couple of times, I've been meaning to ask, where are these prerequisties derived from?
melvsterrhiaro_: some of the things we talked about in paris, ie following, friending, two way relationships, does two way following equal a friend? how do co-workers fit in etc. ie relationship driven
rhiaro_melvster: I know what you suggest the prereqs are, and a the things you suggest make sense, just wondering if you're getting these from somewhere specific
melvsterrhiaro_: no, it's work that needs to be done, my experience of it was coming to the user stories and trying to implement them, then noticing in several cases that previous assumptions are stated, in a sense it would be good to collate previous assumptions and document so that everyone can start from the same point
rhiaro_So for example, the section you added to API Reqs on the wiki seems kind of backwards. I mean, the reqs are derived *from* the user stories, not the other way around. You could probably get very similar results from working through the friendship graph user story to derive as requirements what you have called pre requisites
bblfishmy fear melvster is that there are three groups that are part of the Social Web WG that come from different points of view, so there is not really much you can do to find a common starting point
melvsterrhiaro_: yes it's really important to learn from experiences, it was very interesting yesterday to learn how boeing is using social for their 180,000 employees, people can find other people based on expertize and self defined interests, ask questions in a group, or globally, and other cool stuff
melvsterelf-pavlik: because it's already a REC. I like JSON LD also, but my understanding was that this group has not yet decided whether to use JSON LD or JSON, so many of us are waiting on that to give concrete recommendations ...
elf-pavlik"his specification describes a JSON-based [RFC7159] serialization syntax for the Activity Vocabulary that follows the conventions defined by the [JSON-LD] specification. While serialization forms other than JSON-LD are possible, alternatives are not discussed by this document."
melvsterso for example .jsonld files in gh-pages would break etc. while it may have a common syntax, it would not be JSON LD, it would be a competing media type
sandroThat probably makes sense, but it's not something that excites me right now. (Personally, I don't feel we know what we're doing well enough to document it for others yet. I know lots of folks disagree with me on this.)
melvstersandro: thanks, yes that's true. Hence my suggestion to keep it pretty short and cover basics, such as the social graph and why it's valuable, why we need extensibility etc.
melvsterbblfish: Hi, I'm Jon - I work on OpenPGP support at Facebook. I thought you might be interested to hear that we now support fetching public keys via the Graph API.
melvsteri think you can get all confused with definitions like silo, monoculture etc. and end up becoming what you oppose ... a true test of a silo is whether or not it allows connections, and this can be quite easily observed
tilgovi, bblfish, elf-pavlik and the_frey joined the channel
aaronpkif you manage to actually get a curl request through (by setting the user agent to a browser) then you just get a blob of javascript crap and html comments
melvsterKevinMarks: ah ok, I guess maybe they did it before but not sure they still do, that's good for a federated profile, but it's better if you can crawl it, rel="me" doesnt scale either, where facebook have a restrictive policy is person to person relationships that may exist outside of facebook ... which is a shame, but I understand the business case
melvsteraaronpk: curl request to public key works rather well, it even sets the correct mime type 10/10 to facebook on that front, it's more disappointing the way oauth tokens are now needed for stuff that wasnt before
melvsterwhat's interesting to me about public key is that not only is it a pointer to another identity, but it's a token that can be used for authentication
melvsteraaronpk: you can link *in* to facebook from another place, using web standards, if the *policy* allowed you to link out it would have two way relationships, but the policy is restrictive, so there are only one way relationships
melvsterI think that's going to be a good way to divide up the social architecture doc. instead of "data model" we can have 1. People 2. Relationships 3. How that creates a Social Graph <-- elf-pavlik ... some food for thought
melvsterit's really helpful to have that type in there as you scale, because then processors can branch and do different things with different types of data that they come across
elf-pavlik melvster, sure
melvster elf-pavlik: so that's an excellent start, what I would suggest is to think about the importance of the social graph, when I was asking about boeing they have some really interesting use cases around profiles, relationships, discovery and search -- which are all read only operations -- then we can talk about what the ability to write to the social graph brings ... and how to do this using HTTP, URIs etc.
rhiaro_ So for example, the section you added to API Reqs on the wiki seems kind of backwards. I mean, the reqs are derived *from* the user stories, not the other way around. You could probably get very similar results from working through the friendship graph user story to derive as requirements what you have called pre requisites
Loqi Pelf made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social syntax/User Stories]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85833&oldid=85037
KevinMarks you can link outside from facebook, you just can't see the links unless you have an api key
pdurbin melvster: sorry, what discussion? did slvrbckt post something about federated identity?