#social 2015-11-03

2015-11-03 UTC
jasnell, jasnell_ and JonathanC joined the channel
bblfish, the_frey and jasnell joined the channel
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melvster
cc: bigbluehat
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raucao
melvster: we're using the irc npm module from them
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melvster
very cool
ShaneHudson joined the channel
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melvster
IRCAnywhere has the roots to create a powerful plugin system capable of modifying the back and frontend applications with ease, allowing you to provide more functionality for your users.
ShaneHudson joined the channel
elf-pavlik, jasnell, MarkS_, cwebber2, timbl, timbl_, bblfish, bblfish_, timbl__, bblfish__ and melvster joined the channel
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cwebber2
I just releasec v0.1 of ActiviPy
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cwebber2
er, released
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cwebber2
pretty excited about it
shepazu, melvster and tilgovi joined the channel
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jasnell
cwebber2: awesome!
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jasnell
love it
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cwebber2
btw what's the current process for putting things on the agenda
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cwebber2
does it happen in the big block pre tracking issues stuff?
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cwebber2
it sounds like things changed and I'm quasi uncertain
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aaronpk
everything gets added to the end, and the chair can rearrange, iirc
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cwebber2
aaronpk: thanks for the clarification!
the_frey, eprodrom, tantek, Shane_, rene and hhalpin joined the channel
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hhalpin
waves
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Loqi
hhalpin: kevinmarks left you a message on 10/20 at 1:30pm: do you have the slides from https://youtu.be/BOLIuBr_2uM online? http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/social/2015-10-20/line/1445373024315
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hhalpin
Note everyone, the webex password has changed
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hhalpin
due to MIT having issues with the password and so WebEx being misued.
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Arnaud
trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot
is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
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trackbot
RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent
I have made the request, trackbot
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trackbot
Zakim, this will be SOCL
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Zakim
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
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trackbot
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot
Date: 03 November 2015
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Shane_
Made dinner, ready at 1 minute to the hour. That is good timing!
azaroth joined the channel
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azaroth
Present+ Rob_Sanderson
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aaronpk
present+
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Arnaud
present+
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Shane_
present+
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cwebber2
present+ cwebber
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aaronpk
someone is really noisy on the call
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azaroth
I think it's Rene
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cwebber2
Zakim, who's making... oh
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Zakim
I don't understand 'who's making... oh', cwebber2
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cwebber2
we miss you Zakim !
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azaroth
cwebber2++
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Loqi
cwebber2 has 51 karma
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tantek
present+ tantek
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wilkie
present+ wilkie
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sandro
present+ sandro
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rene
present+
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Shane_
I can scribe
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eprodrom
Sorry, is the code still SOCL?
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Arnaud
no, you need to follow the link from the meeting page
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Arnaud
we can't type it here or it will be public
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Shane_
scribeNick: Shane_
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aaronpk
it's in the channel topic O.o
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wilkie
haha it's in the title
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Shane_
Hah
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eprodrom
present+ eprodrom
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hhalpin
Yep, I put in there just while people we're dialing in - will change it once we get everyone in.
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jasnell
present+
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cwebber2
yeah I got in with no password
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Shane_
I normally need don't need a password but did this time
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sandro
RRSAgent, pointer?
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Arnaud
PROPOSED: Approval of Minutes of 2015-10-20
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eprodrom
Scanning now
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cwebber2
I think the standard procedure is drop on irc and everyone scrambles to review :)
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ben_thatmustbeme
present+ ben_thatmustbeme
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eprodrom
+1 looks complete
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tantek
cwebber2++
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cwebber2
+1 on approval
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Arnaud
RESOLVED: Approval of Minutes of 2015-10-20 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-10-20-minutes
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Loqi
cwebber2 has 52 karma
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Shane_
Arnaud: Quickly another reminder about face to face meeting, if you haven't done so please indicate your attendance.
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sandro
still hasn't gotten a hotel room. Any advice?
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Shane_
... we will soon start working on logistics for the face to face
hhalpin_ joined the channel
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tantek
with AnnB and rhiaro !
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Shane_
... Tantek entertained a breakout session at TPAC, about 25 people or so at the session
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tantek
rhiaro took minutes
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Shane_
...Not much to take away from the working group, but worth reading through the minutes
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Shane_
tantek: The discussion was very lively and had interest for participation in the WG
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Shane_
...Photo there, you can see lots of people there. You can see Tim Berners-Lee attended, it was very animated
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Shane_
Arnaud: The primary goal was to advertise the WG and any new members so much the better
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Shane_
... Trying to streamline the discussion on the agenda
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Shane_
... Evan has voluntered to be a co-editor
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jasnell
+1 to Evan being co-editor
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Shane_
... If anyone is concerned, let us know
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cwebber2
massive +1 to Evan being co-editor
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azaroth
+1 and Evan++
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hhalpin_
+1
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rene
+1
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Shane_
Evan: My only question is if there is any conflict with being a chair and co-editor?
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cwebber2
I'm also happy to be an editor if that would be helpful, though I think Evan + James is more than sufficient
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hhalpin_
Its unusual but three chairs is also unusual.
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Shane_
Arnaud: If you are willing to put in the time it takes, you are very welcome
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eprodrom
+1
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eprodrom
Thanks everyone
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cwebber2
INFORMALLY_RESOLVED :)
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hhalpin_
I would suggest that if you feel there is a conflict of interest between the two roles, you simply tell the other chairs and editor.
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Shane_
Arnaud: I sent an email about the agenda, there was a lot of different proposals regarding AS 2.0 and it would be time consuming to go through them one by one
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jasnell
in the batch of "proposed to accept", let's pull [Activity Streams 2.0] Proposal: Remove @context from all examples - https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/233 (Ben) out separately.
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azaroth
+1 to separating 233, per email
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hhalpin_
present+ hhalpin
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Shane_
... I took the liberty to bunch together some propsals, proposing to approve all as a batch
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Shane_
... If you have any concerns with any one proposal, say so. No need to justify now
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Shane_
... Please speak up, otherwise we will vote on the rest and hopefully agree these are the proposals, then focus on the others on a more systematic approach
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cwebber2
yay to the idea of resolving many proposals at once :)
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Loqi
woot
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ben_thatmustbeme
q+ removal of @context example
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Zakim
sees m4nu, removal, of, @context, example on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ben_thatmustbeme: heh!
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ben_thatmustbeme
q- removal of @context example
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Zakim
sees m4nu on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
q- removal
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Zakim
sees m4nu on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Arnaud: There are proposals from a few people
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ben_thatmustbeme
that one has had a fair number of -1s
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cwebber2
q- m4nu
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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jasnell
The Proposal then is to approve: #220, #218, #225, #226, #227, #213, #229, and #232
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Shane_
Arnaud: Is there any request for removal from that batch?
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Arnaud
PROPOSED: Approve the following proposals: #220, #218, #225, #226, #227, #213, #229, and #232
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azaroth
+1
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rene
+1
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Shane_
+1
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ben_thatmustbeme
wait, that list is missing 223
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aaronpk
that's correct
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tantek
it's missing 233
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cwebber2
ben_thatmustbeme: that's up for seaprate discussion
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tantek
the remove @context from all examples - postponed to specific discussion after this poll
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ben_thatmustbeme
wasn't sure the way it was nested
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Shane_
Arnaud: Ben, we can look at that one next
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Arnaud
RESOLVED: Approve the following proposals: #220, #218, #225, #226, #227, #213, #229, and #232
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eprodrom
+1
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tantek
FYI I edited the minutes from 2 weeks ago to add a few more topic subheadings: https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?title=Socialwg%2F2015-10-20-minutes&diff=86648&oldid=86072
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cwebber2
whooo, talk about getting stuff done!
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tantek
Aside: I think that was a reasonable improvement on the flat/FIFO agenda building.
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Arnaud
[Activity Streams 2.0] Proposal: `mediaType` on Content objects - https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/223#issuecomment-151176900 (James)
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kevinmarks
present+
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kevinmarks
was confused looking for a new dial-in code, when that didn't change
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Shane_
jasnell: This proposal is from Elf, he may be able to explain it better. It is about whether we need object types for Blob, such as image data. We already have Image and Video but that is for describing metadata of the image. The proposal is about the actual data.
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Shane_
Arnaud: Elf is not on today
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Shane_
jasnell: Defer it until he is here
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cwebber2
elves with invisibility cloaks
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Shane_
Arnaud: Unless anyone else wants to speak up?
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Shane_
jasnell: #229 should cover it, but will wait for Elf
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Shane_
Arnaud: There is the @context, do we want to start with that one?
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hhalpin_
kevinmarks, did you get in without a dial-in code?
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kevinmarks
just the 9 digit one
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ben_thatmustbeme
q+ to say that I'm okay to waiting for this on non-telcon time
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Zakim
sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Arnaud: Happy to leave it to those who are involved in the discussion, if they would gain from using the teleconference time
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Zakim
sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack ben_thatmustbeme
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Zakim
ben_thatmustbeme, you wanted to say that I'm okay to waiting for this on non-telcon time
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kevinmarks
POTS via google
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees tantek, jasnell on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack tantek
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Zakim
sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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Shane_
ben_thatmustbeme: I'm ok with not wasting time on it. Sounds like annotations group are going to go other direction on it
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Shane_
tantek: The only thing I was going to add is since we have rob and ben on the phone it may be good to have the chance for them to discuss it
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Rob: The annotations group originally left them off to make samples clearer, we reversed it on the grounds of developers being likely to cut and paste and make sure their code produces code that looks like the samples. Which is not what we wanted to end up with
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Shane_
... We haven't yet published the reversal
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Arnaud: Ben, since the discussion is still going do you want to respond?
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jasnell
fwiw, I'm -1 on #233. having the @context there doesn't hurt and is beneficial
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Shane_
Ben: I'm ok with leaving them there, there have been several -1s so I would be ok leaving them there
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jasnell
paying attention to @context is optional for *some* users
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jasnell
not all
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Shane_
... James has said context is optional in the past, based on other arguments people say it must be there for JSON-LD
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Zakim
sees tantek, cwebber on the speaker queue
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wilkie
shouldn't it use a default context when absent?
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Arnaud: There are people pushing for just JSON. We should not tie this question to the bigger issue
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jasnell
wilkie: it does
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Shane_
... We should separate the discussions
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Arnaud
ack tantek
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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wilkie
jasnell: ok. that makes it seem like less a big deal either way then.
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jasnell
+1 to keeping @context
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azaroth
+1
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rene
+1
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cwebber2
I agree taht we need to have that other discussion
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ben_thatmustbeme
i can live with it
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Shane_
+0 I have no reason not to, not a big fan though
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azaroth
q+ to clarify
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Zakim
sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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Shane_
jasnell: The annotations working group have the option of requring JSON-LD things, in this WG we decided to say JSON as in charter but never required JSON-LD
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cwebber2
tantek: I think the points you're raising are important, I agree with Arnaud that we need to have that larger conversation to clarify this
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jasnell
Shane_ that's not me talking
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Shane_
Oh whoops, it is ben then?
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cwebber2
Shane_: it was tantek
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azaroth
that was tantek :)
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Shane_
oops, sorry!
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rene
looking at the current drafts it seems a lot like JSON-LD is the primary serialization the WG is looking at
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Shane_
Arnaud: It was approved by the working group
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Shane_
tantek: Then we have a difference between a couple of the chairs, we can discuss later
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kevinmarks
at the time we discussed JSON-LD we were told that @context was optional
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Shane_
Arnaud: I can live with a 0 and so will call it resolved
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cwebber2
kevinmarks: it is optional still
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azaroth
q-
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
kevinmarks: maybe it can be better clarified in the docs, I need to re-look
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Shane_
Arnaud: A proposal to remove href lang
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cwebber2
the context is implied, so
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tantek
right kevinmarks, we only ever resolved that optional JSON-LD was ok. I don't remember ever resolving to require JSONLD in AS2. If we did then we have bigger problems. :/
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azaroth
kevinmarks, cwebber2: +1 to clarifying. 1.2 of AS-core implies it's required, at least to me
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cwebber2
what we resolved in boston iirc
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Shane_
cwebber2: The object wasn't designed to have parity, the justification for removing it hasn't been made
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Zakim
sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
was that the context was implied
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kevinmarks
right, cwebber2 - the implied @context was the way to map the JSON to JSON-LD for those who want it
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Shane_
Arnaud: Ok, anyone wants to speak to the flip side?
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Arnaud
ack ben_thatmustbeme
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
and that way
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cwebber2
you could have json-ld
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cwebber2
but someone who just has json can just use json
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azaroth
q+ to agree with jasnell that it's useful
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Zakim
sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Ben: I can't see how it is useful, yes it is in html but so is a lot of things. We should prove useful not what's not useful. You can't prove a negative
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tantek
+1 on being required to prove that it is useful
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hhalpin_
I think you can prove a 'negative' if its not used by developers in the wild.
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cwebber2
so simultaneously it's both json-ld but not needing to be json-ld
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hhalpin_
That's an empirical question, but we're a bit early here.
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hhalpin_
We could see if href was heavily used in Atom though.
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hhalpin_
s/href/hreflang
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Shane_
Ben: I didn't see anything very conclusive, I didn't see anything in the language spec/best practises spec that was published
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azaroth
q?
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Zakim
sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Arnaud: Are you saying you don't buy it as being valid?
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hhalpin_
q+
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Zakim
sees azaroth, hhalpin_ on the speaker queue
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wilkie
if you remove this, how does an extension add it back?
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Shane_
Ben: Not really
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Arnaud
ack azaroth
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Zakim
azaroth, you wanted to agree with jasnell that it's useful
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Zakim
sees hhalpin_ on the speaker queue
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tantek
can we postpone it from AS2? whose implementation needs this?
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Shane_
azaroth: We had the same use case with the same outcome, we useful DC language but the result is the same
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Shane_
... The language are not available by content negotiation
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Arnaud
ack hhalpin_
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Shane_
...The annotation might be the only source of language, you may not know which source to use
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wilkie
there needs to be some space for this functionality for this exact thing as extension if it is removed
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kevinmarks
+1 on deleting things not used in practice
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Shane_
hhalpin_: Examples are easy to make. We may be premature in using hreflang, if there are elements that are not used once we go through them then they should be removed from the AS 2.0 spec or the vocab
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tantek
melvster: JSON LD generic processing is not a requirement for any our WG deliverables
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Shane_
Arnaud: If there are certain features that no one wants to implement then we will delete them
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tantek
therefore it cannot assert requirements on any specs
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hhalpin_
That being said, making the spec as simple as possible in the beginning (rather than as complex as possible, as we get with some specs) helps you get implementers for CR!
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Shane_
Ben: I'm ok waiting till CR
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cwebber2
+1 to revisiting at CR
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azaroth
q+ to suggest maintaining at-risk list
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Zakim
sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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azaroth
heh
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azaroth
q-
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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hhalpin_
Marking it 'at risk' makes sense
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rene
+0
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Shane_
+1 to at risk
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hhalpin_
+1
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Arnaud
PROPOSED: keep "hreflang" - https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/219, marking it "AT RISK"
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azaroth
+1 to keep, at risk
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cwebber2
+1 to keep and put it at risk
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cwebber2
that seems reasonable to me
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wilkie
if we remove it, and yeah maybe it shouldn't be in core, but it's too hard someone to put back in, then that'd be bad for international implementations and bilingual usages.
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jasnell
+1 to keeping, -0 to marking at risk
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Shane_
+1
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tantek
+0 would prefer to drop early, but ok with at-risk to keep things moving forward
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wilkie
+1 keep, 0 to mark at risk
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Shane_
Arnaud: It allows you to drop things without cycling through the whole discussion again
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Arnaud
RESOLVED: keep "hreflang" - https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/219, marking it "AT RISK"
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wilkie
I only want it because it makes it more obvious there can be multiple representations of objects :)
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Shane_
Arnaud: We don't have Amy on the call today
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Shane_
jasnell: Previously we had a memberOf property, that was removed as there wasn't any interest at the time. When we revisited the paging model, part of that was indicating the model of the current page.
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Shane_
Arnaud: So it is two-fold, should we have this information back should we piggy back or bring old name back
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kevinmarks
how is this different from using categories/tags?
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Shane_
jasnell: There are memberOf in other vocabs, so could use one of those as extension
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azaroth
q+
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Zakim
sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Arnaud: It sounds like she wants the relationship but doesn't care about the name
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Arnaud
ack azaroth
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek
q+ to ask which one is closer to AS1/JSON if either?
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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jasnell
tantek: AS1 did not have a memberOf property at all
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Shane_
Rob: It would be valuable, regarding the memberOf and other vocabularies, my understanding is that AS has long since decided to create its own vocabulary regardless of other exisiting. So it shouldn't affect us here.
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Arnaud
ack tantek
#
Zakim
tantek, you wanted to ask which one is closer to AS1/JSON if either?
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Shane_
...With my annotations WG head on, this would be very useful to us
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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kevinmarks
in AS1 it was implicit
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eprodrom
unfortunately I have to drop off
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kevinmarks
as there were many streams
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eprodrom
Will read the minutes
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Shane_
Tantek: I was wondering if there is any precedant in AS 1 that could help our decision
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Shane_
jasnell: Nope
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jasnell
in my opinion, this is easily something that can be done via an extension
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rene
if we reject the proposal with the reason that other vocabularies can be used, I would suggest to keep a hint somewhere in the spec how this specific case should be treated with an extension
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jasnell
if it's absolutely necessary
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azaroth
-1 to tagging/categories
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tantek
that was kevinmarks speaking about tagging/categories
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Shane_
jasnell: Folks can do it with tags and categories but this is more about the current properties
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Shane_
Arnaud: There is no backwards compatibility, the question is do we add it or not
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Shane_
... It can be done as an extension and sounds like the annotations working group will do that
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ben_thatmustbeme
+1 to Defer for Amy
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Shane_
Arnaud: I don't want to close it without Amy being here. Let's move on
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cwebber2
Arnaud: evan had to drop off
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wilkie
he left I think
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cwebber2
time to defer!
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Shane_
Arnaud: I missed the fact Evan had dropped off. He has a bunch of issues
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Shane_
Arnaud: Evan and Elf next week
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Zakim
sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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Arnaud
ack jasnell
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek
what did AS1/JSON use for media type?
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azaroth
q+ to note discussion with IETF last week
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Zakim
sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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Shane_
jasnell: The short summary is that currently the AS spec defines the slot, the argument is the build upon the JSON-LD type with a profile parametre
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jasnell
application/ld+json; profile="http://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams"
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rene
There seems no consensus on that we are actually building on JSON-LD
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tantek
really dislikes profile params because backends/frameworks don't typically support "profile"
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tantek
rene - correct, no consensus that we are building on JSONLD
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tantek
rene - the charter only dictates JSON for the Social Syntax
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hhalpin_
+1 jasnell
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Zakim
sees azaroth, cwebber on the speaker queue
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Shane_
jasnell: We are not supporting all JSON-LD mechanisms, we are not requiring all implementers to use it. I think using JSON-LD is the correct way to do it. There is a discussion on going
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Arnaud
ack azaroth
#
Zakim
azaroth, you wanted to note discussion with IETF last week
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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tantek
-1 on JSONLD media type
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Zakim
sees cwebber, jasnell on the speaker queue
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Shane_
Rob: At TPAC we had a discussion, at IETF meeting there has just been a discussion about having media types at the same weight as the regular media types
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Shane_
... If that was a concern then the annotations group will be pushing them on it, it should be possible
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Shane_
... We considered that we also have a bunch of restrictions, the profile was sufficent to add in the requirements in a machine processable and normative fashion. You must do JSON-LD and use this frame, can't say that normatively of course.
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Shane_
... Not to push this group one way or another, but worth considering
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Arnaud
ack cwebber
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Zakim
sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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Shane_
cwebber2: I think this ties in partly with what tantek was discussing about requiring @context, we agreed that there would be an implied @context with JSON-LD under the hood.
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tantek
with *optional* JSON-LD under the hood
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melvster
under the hood == out of band
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Shane_
... If someone with a scripting language is just hacking away, they will know it will be provided without having to worry about it. Keeping it simple.
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jasnell
example: {"@context": "http://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams", "@type": "Place", "coordinates": [[1,2],[3,4]]} is valid Activity Streams 2.0 but is not valid JSON-LD because JSON-LD does not support GeoJSON lists of lists
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azaroth
q+ to ask if *every* schema should register a media type?
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Zakim
sees jasnell, azaroth on the speaker queue
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Shane_
... It seems weird as the core doesn't do much without the core vocab, the way I understood before is that we would deliver it based on having a mime type. If there are other ways to express it, technically it was always possible.
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Shane_
...I think it is useful to have some way to say to teh users that there is a simple document, it is technically JSON-LD but no need to overcomplicate it
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tantek
cwebber2++ this is exactly what I was distinguishing between this WGs approach and AnnotationsWG
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Loqi
cwebber2 has 53 karma
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Arnaud
ack jasnell
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Zakim
sees azaroth on the speaker queue
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Shane_
jasnell: A valid AS 2.0 document is not a valid JSON-LD, it allows things to be used that are not valid. It does say there is additional processing required for some features
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Shane_
... Advertising that as a JSON-LD document is a bit of a lie, because it is not
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Shane_
... There is enough differences between the two that warrants AS having its own media type
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Shane_
... Okay we can address it with a profile but that is optional for implementors to support
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cwebber2
jasnell: manu was telling me there was some likely possibility that the nested lists issue might be handled
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Shane_
... The JSON-LD spec only says what a implementation SHOULD do
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cwebber2
in json-ld
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cwebber2
in some way
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hhalpin_
Also, rss and atom had their own media-types, so there is precedent
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tantek
hhalpin_ indeed
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rene
if it is true that a valid AS 2.0 document doesn't have to be a valid JSON-LD document, than the profile is no solution
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Shane_
Arnaud: The JSON-LD portion appears to be controversal, some people want more linked data. This is loosing sight of the fact that the spec was written for two possible views of the world, not force one view on everybody
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cwebber2
jasnell: is there any blocker from the "it's technically a compacted json-ld doc" other than the geojson example
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Zakim
sees azaroth, jasnell on the speaker queue
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Shane_
... The pressure I see on both sides are pushing for one view or another, the current draft is trying to carve a compromise
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Arnaud
ack azaroth
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Zakim
azaroth, you wanted to ask if *every* schema should register a media type?
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Zakim
sees jasnell on the speaker queue
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Shane_
... It would be wise to bring up things if they are required to be tuned, try not to get into religious debate about linked data or not
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tantek
it sounds like james's proposed media type allows for the two possible views of the world, not force one view on everybody
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rene
I wonder whether it is necessary to allow AS 2.0 documents that look like JSON-LD but are not valid due to subtle differences
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Shane_
Rob: Given was James' said, it seems justified that a different media type be used, but I would propose that any features that are not JSON-LD compatible will be called out so that people know what would be lost
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Arnaud
ack jasnell
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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rene
+1 to rob
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cwebber2
+1 to having the mimetype and also saying it SHOULD be considered a profile
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azaroth
+1 to jasnell suggestion of equivalent profile
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Shane_
jasnell: For leaving in the application activity + json activity type, but should treat with profile as being equivalent. If they don't care then it is fine.
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cwebber2
because then implementers can ignore that
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cwebber2
but technically, it's true
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cwebber2
I think it's a good route
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azaroth
Propose that profile doc might be good place for listing non-round-trippable content?
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Shane_
Arnaud: We will not close this issue yet, hoping we are starting to see the light
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ben_thatmustbeme
perhaps a note of how to convert AS2 to JSON-LD ?
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Shane_
... There are two more items on the agenda, will use the last minute to let cwebber2 make an announcement
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rene
if there are two worlds, why not express that in using different media types?
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tantek
q+ to remind folks about IndieWebCamp MIT Nov 7-8! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT please sign-up on the Guest List if you want to come (no charge, no need to be member of WG) https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT/Guest_List
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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Shane_
cwebber2: I have a very short announcement which is I just posted to the list an implementation of AS 2.0 that tries to implement as simplified so that it uses JSON-LD behind the hood
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Arnaud
ack tantek
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Zakim
tantek, you wanted to remind folks about IndieWebCamp MIT Nov 7-8! https://indiewebcamp.com/2015/MIT please sign-up on the Guest List if you want to come (no charge, no need to be
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Shane_
tantek: Just a quick announcement, this week coming up is IWC MIT 7th 8th all day, posted a URL into IRC. Can sign up by adding to wiki page, no charge. Welcome to bring any friends, don't need to be a member of WG
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Shane_
Arnaud: Let's close on this, thank you all for joining
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jasnell
I will have an updated WD ready to review by next week
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wilkie
thanks
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azaroth
Thanks all!
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Shane_
Arnaud: Evan should be chairing on Nov 10th
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Loqi
I added a countdown for 11/10 12:00am (#5735)
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cwebber2
thank you Shane_ !
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cwebber2
Shane_++
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tantek
Shane_++ for scribing!!
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Loqi
Shane_ has 1 karma
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wilkie
Shane++
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cwebber2
Arnaud++ for chairing
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Arnaud
trackbot, end meeting
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trackbot
is ending a teleconference.
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trackbot
Zakim, list attendees
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Zakim
As of this point the attendees have been Arnaud, csarven, rhiaro, aaronpk, shanehudson, sandro, elf-pavlik, kevinmarks, wilkie, eprodrom, jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme, cwebber,
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Loqi
Shane_ has 2 karma
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Loqi
Shane has 3 karma
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Loqi
Arnaud has 27 karma
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Loqi
Shane has 4 karma
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Zakim
... tantek, hhalpin, james, tsyesika, wseltzer, akuckartz, shepazu, Rob_Sanderson, Shane_, rene
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Shane_
Sorry about the slight name mismatches heh
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cwebber2
btw jasnell
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trackbot
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
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RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/11/03-social-minutes.html trackbot
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trackbot
RRSAgent, bye
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RRSAgent
I see no action items
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cwebber2
jasnell: the link I just posted
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cwebber2
how to do lists of lists json-ld, being proposed
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jasnell
cwebber2: yep, I've commented on that ;-)
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jasnell
I think that proposal is making it far too complicated
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azaroth
Did you consider GeoJSON-LD ? https://github.com/geojson/geojson-ld
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cwebber2
azaroth: I'm not sure adding another layer is going to simplify this group... :)
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Shane_
Hah
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cwebber2
I thought this was an additional processing step
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cwebber2
which would be a nightmare
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cwebber2
azaroth: so this is suggesting how to encode geojson type data into json-ld?
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cwebber2
and just use existing json-ld processors?
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cwebber2
this looks like a pretty reasonable design
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aaronpk
how are they handling multipolygons?
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aaronpk
or just linestrings
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aaronpk
oh there's a whole giant thread about it https://github.com/geojson/geojson-ld/issues/32
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Shane_
Took me long enough to write a JSON parser
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azaroth
cwebber2: hehe
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Shane_
Are these minutes alright? Not done it in a while, so the process has changed a bit. https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-11-03-minutes
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azaroth
Yeah it's a -ld mapping, though I'm not sure how sgillies handled the list of lists issue
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azaroth
(sorry, was moving to my next meeting)
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Shane_
*GEOJSON parser, not JSON!
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rene
I always thought using WKT would be a reasonable way to represent it in any data format
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cwebber2
since Activipy 0.1 was announced at end of meeting
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cwebber2
again, I'd really love and appreciate feedback!
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Shane_
cwebber2: I really like it at a brief glance. So much easier to visualise with code than just data structures, though that might just be me!
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cwebber2
Shane_: :)
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cwebber2
tantek: btw, http://activipy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/about.html kind of speaks to the thing being said today on the call I THINK
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cwebber2
oops my shift sticks sometimes
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cwebber2
> And simple is good, because let’s face it, most users of most web application APIs are like poor Billy Scripter, a kid who has some scripting language like Ruby or Python or Javascript and some JSON parser in a toolbox and that’s about it. Billy Scripter knows how to parse JSON pulled down from some endpoint, and that’s about all he knows how to do. Poor Billy Scripter! But it’s okay, because ActivityStreams is simple enough that
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cwebber2
Billy can make it by. And because the ActivityStreams Core serialization specifies that the ActivityStreams Vocabulary is always implied and that those terms must always be available, Billy will always know what a Like object or a Note means. Horray for Billy!
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cwebber2
as an aside also
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cwebber2
I'm pretty sure Activipy says "ActivityStreams" but it's pretty generic at representing a vocabulary
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wilkie
I'm imagining Billy as a goat in my head. a kid jumping around. bumping into things.
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cwebber2
so maybe over the next week or two I can try out ben_thatmustbeme's json-ld context and also set it up as an implied context
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cwebber2
poor billy
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cwebber2
and see how well MF2 vocab fits
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cwebber2
I have a sense that JF2 with an implied microformats vocabulary is a pretty similar design to AS2 with an implied AS2 vocabulary
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wilkie
evan talked about a weekend of hacking. is that a thing?
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cwebber2
wilkie: I think it hasn't been scheduled
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wilkie
at any rate, working on code this weekend sounds good. I'll try to look at the channel during.
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cwebber2
maybe time to start a mailing list thread
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cwebber2
wilkie: I think I'll be around doing relevant hacking
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wilkie
there was a doodle poll I think. or maybe I was just dreaming doodle polls
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cwebber2
I vaguely remember such a thing
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cwebber2
dreaming of polls seems familiar too
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wilkie
cwebber2: then, informal hacking weekend thing this weekend :)
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cwebber2
be careful of filling out polls in your dreams
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wilkie
so many polls
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cwebber2
who knows what you might write in
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wilkie
so much obligation
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tantek
doodle poll was in the agenda and minutes from two weeks ago
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tantek
(link to)
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kevinmarks
wilkie: indiewebcamp MIT is a weekend of hacking, you can remote attend
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tantek
indeed, wilkie - hacking on anything for your own site is welcome obv - including AS2!
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tantek
we'll hopefully get a talky-io setup for remote participation too
ShaneHudson joined the channel
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wilkie
maybe!
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tantek
cwebber2: if you're going to be hacking this weekend, might as well stop by MIT (you're nearby-ish right?)
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ben_thatmustbeme
cwebber2: right now it IS mf2 vocabular with a few minor changes since it literally just grabs the MF2 and converts it to a trimmed down JSON format, the @context i made just points to appropriate wiki pages for those values
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cwebber2
tantek: I wish! I live in Madison, WI
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cwebber2
ben_thatmustbeme: that's all it needs to do :)
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tantek
then hopefully remotely!
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cwebber2
tantek: I'll try to make it remotely! we have a (late) halloween party but then I think I'm free otherwise this weekend
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jasnell
sorry, not working draft
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jasnell
updated editor's drafts
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tantek
jasnell++
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Loqi
jasnell has 32 karma
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ben_thatmustbeme
that was fast
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Loqi
jasnell has 33 karma
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jasnell
had everything queued up already
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aaronpk
suspected as much :)
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aaronpk
jasnell++
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Loqi
jasnell has 34 karma
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jasnell
note a key change in this round of edits is that the "@id" and "@type" are now "id" and "type". for json-ld processors, this change will be transparent
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cwebber2
jasnell: oh, I'd better update Activipy to handle that
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