#social 2015-12-08

2015-12-08 UTC
#
Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Github]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87140&oldid=84359
tommorris_ and bblfish joined the channel
#
Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-12-08]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87143&oldid=87139
#
Loqi Rhiaro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-12-08]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87144&oldid=87143
jaywink, bblfish and kevinmarks2 joined the channel
#
Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-12-08]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87145&oldid=87144
#
rhiaro F2F summary blog post: http://rhiaro.co.uk/2015/12/socialwg4-summary
kevinmarks, bblfish, the_frey, shepazu, cwebber2 and Arnaud joined the channel
#
Loqi Rhiaro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-11-24-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87146&oldid=0
tantek and eprodrom joined the channel
#
Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-12-08]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87153&oldid=87145
jaywink joined the channel
#
Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-12-08]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87158&oldid=87153
#
KevinMarks_ why are the top 2 items red links?
#
cwebber2 whew! I can finally talk about it in a public setting :) https://stripe.com/blog/open-source-retreat-2016-grantees
#
KevinMarks_ nice cwebber2
#
cwebber2 :D
#
aaronpk added group photo! https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-01
#
tantek aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 19 karma
#
eprodrom Bravo!
#
eprodrom That came out well
#
eprodrom aaronpk++
#
Loqi aaronpk has 20 karma
#
Loqi Aaronpk made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-12-01]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87163&oldid=87083
#
eprodrom trackbot, start meeting
#
trackbot is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
#
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/12/08-social-irc
#
trackbot RRSAgent, make logs public
#
RRSAgent I have made the request, trackbot
#
trackbot Zakim, this will be SOCL
#
Zakim I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
#
trackbot Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
#
trackbot Date: 08 December 2015
#
eprodrom present+ eprodrom
#
ben_thatmust present+
#
ben_thatmustbeme present- ben_thatmust
#
ben_thatmustbeme preset+
#
ben_thatmustbeme present+
#
eprodrom So close
#
ben_thatmustbeme i have no idea if that works present- that is
#
eprodrom absent+
#
aaronpk present+
#
rhiaro present+ rhiaro
melvster joined the channel
#
wilkie present+
#
ben_thatmustbeme I'll scribe
#
eprodrom ben_thatmustbeme++
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 127 karma
#
eprodrom scribenick: ben_thatmustbeme
bengo joined the channel
#
eprodrom I think that's the right incantation
#
ben_thatmustbeme we have usable internet now at the office, so thats a possibility :)
#
eprodrom Sometimes it's a colon and sometimes it's a comma
#
ben_thatmustbeme scribe:Ben Roberts
#
bengo present+
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: as it is 5 minutes after the hour, lets get started
#
eprodrom https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-08
#
ben_thatmustbeme agenda is linked in the topic
#
tantek present+ tantek
#
ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: approval of minutes
#
cwebber2 oops
#
cwebber2 sorry, dialing in now
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: two sets of minutes to approve last telcon and F2F
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: approve minutes of Nov 24 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-11-24-minutes
#
KevinMarks_ present+
#
eprodrom +1
#
tantek +1
#
wilkie +1
#
aaronpk +1
#
tsyesika +1
#
tsyesika present+
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... unless there is a minus 1 we will move on quickly
#
rhiaro +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme +1
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: approve minutes of Nov 24 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-11-24-minutes
#
rhiaro read them, don't know about anyone else :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: next order of business is minutes from F2F, these are significantly longer
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: approve minutes Dec 1 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-01-minutes
#
cwebber2 present+ cwebber2
#
ben_thatmustbeme was reading them as they were happening, but hasn't read the minuted copy
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: lets treat both days as a single proposal
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: approve minutes Dec 1 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-01-minutes and https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-02-minutes
#
rhiaro +1
#
cwebber2 +1
#
aaronpk +1
#
eprodrom +1
#
cwebber2 rhiaro++
#
Loqi rhiaro has 191 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: we have had some problems with F2F minutes before so bravo Amy
#
eprodrom rhiaro++
#
Loqi rhiaro has 192 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... any objections?
#
rhiaro thanks to whoever bot-wrangled sufficiently to mean there were no problems with the minutes!
#
tantek +1
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: approve minutes Dec 1 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-01-minutes and https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-02-minutes
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... barring any objections we'll mark this resolved
#
wilkie +1
#
eprodrom https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/resolutions
#
tantek ben_thatmustbeme++ for the resolutions summary!
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... while we are on the subject of minutes, ben_thatmustbeme has taken the time to group resolutions from previous minutes
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 128 karma
#
cwebber2 present+
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... if it possible i would love to see this kept up to date
#
wilkie ben_thatmustbeme++ this is great
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... moving on with admin tasks
#
Loqi ben_thatmustbeme has 129 karma
#
ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: github procedure
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: one of the controversies going in to F2F is how github procedure works and if we were being fair and how that was documented
#
aaronpk who just joined the call?
#
eprodrom https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/github
#
KevinMarks_ me
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... at the F2F amy put together a basic set of procedures and we hammered on them
#
tantek present+ kevinmarks
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we approved these at the F2F but wanted to bring them up since not everyone was at the F2F
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we have already resolved this as the law of the land for github, but wanted to bring it up in telcon
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... any comments or questions on this?
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... no, given that, lets move on
#
ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: ActivityStreams 2.0
#
tantek we had resolved to publish a new WD ASAP at the f2f
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: james updated the editors draft, but did not publish a new WD
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... would like to move toward CR in Jan
#
tantek I don't see jasnell in IRC
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... there was some editorial issues around adding eprodrom as a co-editor
#
rhiaro I think there is a new WD? http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams-core/index.html
#
rhiaro Looks updated
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... he is not on today so i am trying to fill in in my co-editor role
#
rhiaro Oops I mean http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/
#
tantek rhiaro, I think James has to just pull the trigger because we already resolved to publish
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we cleared up a lot of things at F2F, i don't think we have significant blocking issues right now
#
rhiaro Never mind
#
KevinMarks_ that is updated, yes
#
eprodrom https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... the idea is to go to a new editors draft in the next few days
#
ben_thatmustbeme you mean working draft?
#
eprodrom http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams-core/ http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams-vocabulary/
#
tantek "RESOLUTION: publish a new WD of AS2 drafts as of / by Friday. " from https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-12-02-minutes
#
ben_thatmustbeme s/editors draft in the next few days/working draft in the next few days/
#
KevinMarks_ so http://jasnell.github.io/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/activitystreams-core/index.html should move to http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: the hold up may be on my end
#
eprodrom ACTION eprodrom get w3cid to jasnell asap
#
trackbot is creating a new ACTION.
#
trackbot Created ACTION-85 - Get w3cid to jasnell asap [on Evan Prodromou - due 2015-12-15].
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: can you take an action to get this fixed?
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: anything on the queue for AS2?
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: love the rapid progress
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i think everyone does
#
rhiaro http://w3c-social.github.io/social-web-protocols/social-web-protocols
#
ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: social web protocols
#
melvster rhiaro: FYI: SoLiD is now called Solid
#
ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: this morning i closed a bunch of issues that were opened at the F2F as they looked like there was concensus
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... if anyone feels this is inadiquate please bring it up
#
KevinMarks_ can you add links?
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... I added a section on relation between different documents
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... i would like feedback on what people think about it
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... ask for FPWD issues be posted on Github
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... would like to ask if there are none to go to FPWD by next call
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: we'll put on agenda for next call to move this FPWD
#
tantek q+ to ask didn't we ask for that last week to be done by this week?
#
Zakim sees tantek on the speaker queue
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees tantek on the speaker queue
#
eprodrom ack tantek
#
Zakim tantek, you wanted to ask didn't we ask for that last week to be done by this week?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... assuming people will put in there issues there before next call and hopefully close them
#
ben_thatmustbeme s/issues/FPWD blocking issues/
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: reviewing the minutes from F2F we made that same request for today already
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... are you asking to extend?
#
ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: yes, they were not posted until very recently, and feel it should have a week
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
tantek shall we re-resolve on that then?
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: thats reasonable, other editors should take note to do this as well
#
rhiaro https://github.com/w3c-social/social-web-protocols/issues
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: we are collecting issues on github?
#
KevinMarks_ hm, do we need a profile type discovery like post type?
#
ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: yes (gives link)
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
tantek PROPOSED: make any FPWD- issues on Social Protocols Comparison visible before next telecon 12/15
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: thank you
#
KevinMarks_ "The subject of a profile document can be a person, persona, organisation, bot, location, … the type of the subject of the profile is not required."
#
tantek go for it
#
rhiaro Social Web Protocols
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: make any FPWD- issues on Social Web Protocols visible before next telecon 12/15
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: lets update that for the correct name
#
tantek copy / pasted from /Socialwg/2015-12-01-minutes
#
tantek +1
#
eprodrom +1
#
rhiaro +1
#
KevinMarks_ +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: we had a similar proposal at F2F, we are updating to push it another week
#
ben_thatmustbeme +1
#
aaronpk +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i think that makes sense since the minutes just came out
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: make any FPWD- issues on Social Web Protocols visible before next telecon 12/15
#
cwebber2 +1
#
cwebber2 late ;p
#
ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: one last thing to add, i am going to be opening a bunch of issues i would like WG to review, its not just for me its that I don't know where to go with some of them
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... if people could keep an eye on that
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i just talked to myself with my microphone off :)
#
ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: webmention
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: after the f2f all the issues that we discussed i have incorporated issues in to the doc and closed others
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... there are some remaining issues i want to discuss on the call and close a batch of them
#
KevinMarks_ files issues
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... I commented on each issue with the diff so you can see exactly what the differences are
#
aaronpk webmention issues that have been addressed: #22, #18, #17, #13, #12, #5
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... they are all linked in the agenda
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... i would like to propose closing all those on the call here
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i'm not quite sure what the proposal is, these have been closed?
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: they have been addressed, but not closed
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i don't want to get rules-wordy about this, but by my understanding, unless there is some objection by the people in the thread or by the requester
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we don't need to address them
#
tantek sounds good aaronpk eprodrom - let's go with explicit resolution on this one, and in the future we can be more efficient.
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: my understanding was the opposite, and i thought we all had to agree but i'm happy to close them proactively
#
aaronpk PROPOSED: close webmention issues #22, #18, #17, #13, #12, #5 as resolved either having incorporated feedback or rejected with justification
#
rhiaro +1
#
eprodrom +1
#
cwebber2 +1
#
aaronpk +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: lets just do this really quickly and in the future we can be more efiicient
#
ben_thatmustbeme +1
#
tantek +1
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: close webmention issues #22, #18, #17, #13, #12, #5 as resolved either having incorporated feedback or rejected with justification
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i'm going to mark resolved
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: in the future i will be proactive about closing them unless there are explicit objections
#
tantek right, bring objections to the wg telcon
#
KevinMarks_ +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: as the editor its mostly up to you unless there are objections to your mechanism to close them
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: on issue #21 is in regards to the .well-known
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... i feel there are good reasons for allowing and not allowing, we don't need to discuss on the call but did want to bring the attention to the group
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: do you think its a FPWD blocker?
#
eprodrom q+
#
Zakim sees eprodrom on the speaker queue
#
eprodrom ack eprodrom
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
eprodrom https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6415
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: it might be as it requires a change for the sender and that can be a significant change for the implementor
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: postmeta uses the well-known
#
ben_thatmustbeme s/postmeta/hostmeta/
#
tantek q+ to note that in practice host-meta has also been broken by the big sites that have asked for this, e.g. Google
#
Zakim sees tantek on the speaker queue
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: that might be the most efficient way
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... without setting up a whole new well-known endpoint
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: this looks like it adds even more work for senders
#
eprodrom ack tantek
#
Zakim tantek, you wanted to note that in practice host-meta has also been broken by the big sites that have asked for this, e.g. Google
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: anyway, i'll add that to the thread and you can see why i don't have an obvious path to closing this right now
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: To be clear, you don't have to close all issues to go to FPWD
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... or even have them all documented, though its nice to have
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... regarding this in particular, i don't think its a FPWD
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... maybe in the draft list it as an open issue
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... historically this type of discovery has been requested by large companies who break their own host-meta by themselves for months at a time
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... as an editor you should consider that no current implmentations have yet to use this
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... and also that those requesting it often break it themselves
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... I don't think we can do that on the call, but i wanted to bring that up, but it may require synchronous discussion
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: i like the plan of not having it as a FPWD blocker and just making sure to note it as an open issue
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: there are a lot of ways to go from a link relation to an endpoint
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... that discovery process does get rather complicated as there are a lot of methods to do it
#
bengo not a FPWD blocker but IMO "one big company messed up one time" isn't a good reason to ignore the use case
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... it might not be necessary to actually specify them in webmention either
#
KevinMarks_ it's more like "all big companies that supported it dropped it"
#
tantek bengo - hence worth keeping as an open issue
#
bengo yep
#
bengo cool with me
#
tantek - not ignoring
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: I also wanted to call for FPWD blockers to be added by next week
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... same as the Social Web Protocols document
#
wilkie you just need to realize that to do practical interop you'll need to implement 3 or 4 different methods of discovery because everybody thinks every other method is dumb
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: make any FPWD- issues on Webmention visible before next telecon 12/15
#
aaronpk wilkie++
#
Loqi wilkie has 25 karma
#
tantek +1
#
aaronpk +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme +1
#
eprodrom +1
#
KevinMarks_ +1
#
wilkie +1
#
rhiaro +1
#
KevinMarks_ wilkie: or makes up their own
#
tantek wilkie, or we pick the most common subset (HTTP LINK header and HTML a/link rels) and go with that
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: make any FPWD- issues on Webmention visible before next telecon 12/15
#
KevinMarks_ grumbles at about.me again
#
ben_thatmustbeme and i read the host-meta description a week or so ago and forgot and wrote postmeta,.... my brain some times
#
ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: Post Type Discovery
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: I feel like PTD is a very constrained spec, there are only a few issues
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... I don't need to discuss any specific issues
#
ben_thatmustbeme .... I too would like to request anyone with FPWD blockers to make them visible by next week
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... and also to request people to continue to just raise issues and look at the doc, I do appreciate those that have thus far
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: that makes sense
#
eprodrom PROPOSED: make any FPWD- issues on Post Type Discovery visible before next telecon 12/15
#
ben_thatmustbeme +1
#
eprodrom +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: this does mean that we have 3 documents to review before next telcon but that may get us working more
#
aaronpk +1
#
cwebber2 +1
#
KevinMarks_ +1
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: and with any luck we'll have 3 documents to bring to FPWD next week, which will be a great note to end the year on
#
tsyesika +1
#
eprodrom RESOLVED: make any FPWD- issues on Post Type Discovery visible before next telecon 12/15
#
rhiaro bengo's use case for .well-known seems pretty solid. If this discovery mechanism is the only way bigger/media/cms-constrained orgs can even implement webmention, I think we should avoid excluding them.. otherwise we go from 'probably will not implement / will screw it up' to 'definitely will not implement' and lose out a whole bunch. Particularly as these are orgs who are likely to benefit from federation, as it is optimising for their customers and probably
#
rhiaro isn't damaging their business interests.
#
ben_thatmustbeme TOPIC: tracker actions
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: there are no raised issues right now
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we have no issues pending review either
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... only pending review actions
#
tantek rhiaro I don't see the evidence for "is the only way bigger/media/cms-constrained orgs can even implement webmention" - such claims were made in the past about webfinger etc. and either have shown to not be true, or even if they do implement it that way, it's fragile and fails anyway.
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... a lot of these are on you tantek from a few days ago, do you want to take a look at these?
#
rhiaro tantek: based that comment from what bengo said, he's the one with experience with these orgs
#
aaronpk it looks like a lot of those are about adding things to the f2f agenda so they are done by default now
#
rhiaro Can we close ACTION 74 and 75?
#
ben_thatmustbeme tantek: yes I claim i did all these
#
tantek actions 76-79
#
tantek in particular
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: can you close those actions please
#
tantek close action 76
#
tantek close action-76
#
trackbot is closing action-76.
#
trackbot Closed action-76.
#
tantek close action-77
#
trackbot is closing action-77.
#
trackbot Closed action-77.
#
tantek close action-78
#
trackbot is closing action-78.
#
trackbot Closed action-78.
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: amy you had a question about 74 and 75
#
tantek close action-79
#
trackbot is closing action-79.
#
trackbot Closed action-79.
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... aaronpk and rhiaro are those complete?
#
tantek has to drop off the phone. will monitor IRC.
#
tantek thanks all!
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
ben_thatmustbeme rhiaro: I added a section to the SWP document that i think completes it, so long as everyone is happy with that
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: any other questions?
#
ben_thatmustbeme aaronpk: the webmention page has been updated, so that is done as well
#
aaronpk close action-81
#
trackbot is closing action-81.
#
trackbot Closed action-81.
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i love closing issues
#
KevinMarks_ did evan just hang up?
#
cwebber2 it sounds like it
#
cwebber2 eprodrom: ping
#
eprodrom Augh
#
wilkie i think so
#
eprodrom I was giving a really good speech too
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we are now at 45 minutes, i think we have done pretty well here.... (evan's phone dies)
#
wilkie tantek: can't pick a subset. others don't agree wrt interop.
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: alright, back in the game
#
wilkie tantek: i enjoy your boundless optimism though :)
#
tantek just noticed eprodrom dropped off. I can rejoin if needed.
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we are at 45 minutes, i'm happy to give the rest of the 13 minutes back
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... however if anyone has any issues we should discuss
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... in particular i'd like to ask in cwebber2 has an update on activitypump
#
tantek wilkie - in practice no one does "only" host-meta, thus picking a subset of HTTP LINK and HTML rel can work in practice.
Arnaud1 joined the channel
#
ben_thatmustbeme cwebber2: this weekend was kind of crazy for me, but i plan to spend this week closing as many issues as i can, i hope i will have things to report by next call
#
tantek wilkie - happy to be disproven with documented examples of real-world host-meta *only* implementations.
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i don't know that we are at the FPWD request yet for this or micropub
#
aaronpk do we have a call on 12/22?
#
KevinMarks_ progress on jf2?
#
ben_thatmustbeme it may be that we don't get much more work done on these in the next few weeks
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: i believe we do have calls scheduled for 12/22 and 12/29
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... we have cancelled those last year
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... do we want to cancel one or both of those calls?
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... specifically for tantek...
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... actually i and the other chairs will talk about that
#
ben_thatmustbeme ... and we will discuss next week
#
ben_thatmustbeme q+
#
Zakim sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
#
tantek ok by me
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees ben_thatmustbeme on the speaker queue
#
eprodrom ack ben_thatmustbeme
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
tantek mostly I want to give the opportunity for cwebber2 and aaronpk to ask for FPWD on ActivityPump and Micropub
#
tantek so for me it is up to their preference
#
rhiaro doesn't do much else with her life other than socialwg, so calls throughout holidays are fine by me :p
#
tantek to 1) call for FPWD- issues by a certain date, and then 2) ask for resolution to publish FPWD by a later date after that
#
wilkie tantek: host-meta is prioritized in my code. i'm not even sure how to get certain endpoints (dialback, salmon) on just page links or headers. i don't think I do.
#
tantek wilkie - good to know - is that in rstatus or ?
#
eprodrom q?
#
Zakim sees no one on the speaker queue
#
ben_thatmustbeme ben_thatmustbeme: do we want make it a workflow that scribe should move resolutions to the /resolutions page in the future?
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: yes sure, can you do that for F2F and this week
#
ben_thatmustbeme ben_thatmustbeme: sure
#
eprodrom trackbot, end meeting
#
trackbot is ending a teleconference.
#
trackbot Zakim, list attendees
#
Zakim As of this point the attendees have been Arnaud, csarven, rhiaro, aaronpk, shanehudson, sandro, elf-pavlik, kevinmarks, wilkie, eprodrom, jasnell, ben_thatmustbeme, cwebber,
#
Zakim ... tantek, hhalpin, james, tsyesika, wseltzer, akuckartz, shepazu, Rob_Sanderson, Shane_, rene, cwebber2, Benjamin_Young, bengo, ben_thatmust, KevinMarks_
#
trackbot RRSAgent, please draft minutes
#
RRSAgent I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/12/08-social-minutes.html trackbot
#
trackbot RRSAgent, bye
#
RRSAgent I see no action items
#
ben_thatmustbeme phew
#
wilkie tantek: rstatus for sure. newer code tries harder to negotiate more. should something look for rels that match xrd/jrd entries on profile pages??
#
tantek that's a great question - perhaps we can document xrd/jrd entries in use and see if equivalent rels would make sense / be desirable?
#
wilkie at any rate, i certainly see clients that do discovery as burdened to do all of the above since nobody is going to publish all means of discovery anyway
#
bengo should define webmention link relation and then make service discovery of resource links more general-purpose
#
bengo a la webfinger
#
tantek bengo - smells a bit like WS-deathstar
#
KevinMarks_ rels in the head are very common
#
aaronpk so the whole parsing host-meta thing seems like it's asking senders to do a lot more work
#
tantek any time a new "general-purpose" "discovery" mechanism is brought up
#
wilkie discovery in social space isn't about handling the 65% of the time case. it is about handling 100% of cases imo. otherwise people can't communicate.
#
KevinMarks_ after adding them it the mf2 parsing,I have been surprised by how many show up
#
tantek ironically, it's not necessarily a bad thing to ask senders to do more work
#
aaronpk of the two, my preference would be to have the last fallback be just send the webmention to .well-known/webmention
#
wilkie it's a very frustrating problem
#
tantek in terms of spam dynamics
#
aaronpk so not even an extra discovery step
#
tantek though any spam-fighting solution that burdens non-hostile actors 99% of the time instead tends to fail anyway
#
ben_thatmustbeme eprodrom: if james gave you commit access to the repo you can add the w3cid to the doc yourself
#
tantek wait a minute (re: host-meta) - I am recalling that at the March f2f we specifically had a discussion about discovery mechanisms, and RESOLVED to use follow-your-nose style discovery mechanisms, not others, and I believe host-meta was even brought up at the time and rejected by the WG
#
tantek does anyone else remember that discussion?
#
tantek https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-18-minutes#resolution04
#
tantek "RESOLVED the WG will prefer follow-your-nose architecture in the API candidates we consider "
#
tantek adding to github issue https://github.com/aaronpk/webmention/issues/21
#
wilkie prefer doesn't mean the only mechanism specs can consider clarifying
#
bengo Having a well-known scheme as last in the discovery protocol seems compatible with prefer
#
tantek wilkie, bengo - in the context of that meeting it did - as we used it to drop consideration of other methods
#
bengo Looks in the minutes like other methods involving URI templates and such
#
bengo which I'm not proposing
#
tantek prefer as in given multiple proposals, the follow your nose proposals were preferred
#
tantek not prefer as in fallback in an algorithm
#
tantek bengo - and webfinger
#
tantek which was the poster-child for host-meta
#
wilkie that's a little baffling. but nonetheless, a waste of time to fight for either way. implementers will need to implements many forms of discovery for interop.
#
KevinMarks_ been there, got the t-shirt
#
bengo Well that's a bummer of a resolution. I think it is prioritizing pedantry and buzzwords over ease-of-adoption and I'm more interested in the latter
#
KevinMarks_ (I wore the t-shirt to socialwg, though under another shirt)
#
tantek wilkie - fair enough - it does provide an axis for market consideration of multiple approaches
#
tantek bengo - I see it the opposite
#
tantek basing webmention discovery on *only* link rels (HTTP + HTML) has made adoption go much more quickly
#
tantek (not needing host-meta etc.)
#
KevinMarks_ this t-shirt https://www.flickr.com/photos/jyri/3180283257
#
bengo Alright. The use case is at least on the record on that GitHub issue. Not doing anything about it (and just insisting orgs find a way of doing link headers or HTML) is the WG prerogative.
#
Loqi Benthatmustbeme made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-12-08-minutes]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87182&oldid=0
#
bengo and not the end of the world
#
KevinMarks_ (an example of why 'stack' is a bad framing)
#
tantek bengo - it's a way forward, and we may still iterate in the future based on new information
#
bengo yep
#
tantek I tried to make that clear in my github comment, feel free to additional comments if you think it woudl help.
#
tantek lol typo
#
tantek fixed
fortilap joined the channel
#
tantek bengo++ for documenting the realworld use-cases in that issue thread.
#
Loqi bengo has 11 karma
tantek joined the channel
#
Loqi Benthatmustbeme made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/resolutions]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87187&oldid=87066
#
Loqi Benthatmustbeme made 2 edits to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87191&oldid=87135
#
Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87192&oldid=84067
#
Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87195&oldid=87194
#
Loqi Benthatmustbeme made 2 edits to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87194&oldid=87191
bengo joined the channel
#
Loqi Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=87204&oldid=87195
bengo and bblfish joined the channel