2016-03-08 UTC
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# 17:04 jtilles Hey, I heard that the WG would really appreciate help with AS2 & tests, but it's not clear to me how to get involved. # 17:05 jtilles Should I just submit PRs that add more example files? # 17:06 eprodrom jtilles: exactly that # 17:06 eprodrom Also, please make sure that the files you add are OK to redistribute under the W3C license # 17:06 jtilles eprodrom: alrighty then Karli joined the channel
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# 17:57 Zakim I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot azaroth joined the channel
# 18:00 azaroth present+ Rob_Sanderson # 18:02 wilkie Arnaud: we will wait a few minutes to see who else will join. sandro and eprodrom for instance should be on their way # 18:02 wilkie Arnaud: we don't have a loaded agenda so we aren't pressed for time # 18:03 wilkie tantek: I think it's up to you if you think we have enough # 18:03 wilkie I think I have the power to make things beep when I say Arnaud # 18:04 wilkie Arnaud: first the approval of the minutes from last meeting # 18:04 eprodrom just rejoining, sry # 18:04 shevski looking now :) # 18:04 wilkie Arnaud: seeing no objections I declare them approved # 18:05 wilkie Arnaud: next week's meeting for tuesday will be skilled for travel for the F2F # 18:05 wilkie Arnaud: the following week there will be conflicts and that will be skipped as well # 18:06 wilkie Arnaud: people are asked to go to the F2F wiki and note any dietary restrictions or concerns # 18:06 eprodrom present+ eprodrom # 18:06 wilkie rhiaro: yes. also favorite foods and preferences should be noted. it's a small group. # 18:06 wilkie Arnaud: before we get into the agenda, one piece of info # 18:07 Zakim Present: wilkie, bengo, Arnaud, Rob_Sanderson, tantek, dmitriz, AnnB, aaronpk, Ira, sandro, rhiaro, eprodrom # 18:07 wilkie Arnaud: some people requested instead of webex we use uberconference, which is a free alternative # 18:07 wilkie Arnaud: some tried it and we were able to use it for about an hour with 4 people on the call # 18:07 wilkie Arnaud: it was ok and there were some echos and such but overall it worked # 18:08 wilkie Arnaud: though we don't know how it would scale. we think as a next step we can experiment at the F2F since there will be more than 4 on the call but less than normal # 18:09 wilkie Arnaud: you may want to experiment and make sure you can connect to uberconference before the meeting # 18:09 wilkie Arnaud: there are a few things about the AS2 spec to get it to CR # 18:10 wilkie eprodrom: there are some things on that section I need to run by jasnell and will hopefully get that done before the F2F # 18:10 wilkie eprodrom: one critiques about the validator is that AS2 is very permissive and an empty JSON document is a valid AS2 document # 18:11 wilkie eprodrom: the work with the validator is to have a spectrum of recommendations # 18:11 wilkie eprodrom: and to advise good style and what is likely to interop well # 18:11 wilkie bengo: I have two PRs on the test documents repo. is there anything wrong with those? # 18:12 wilkie eprodrom: I have not seen them but I will check them out and get them pulled before next week. I'll look after the meeting # 18:12 wilkie Arnaud: sandro put together a page to capture the list of documents we have in the works # 18:13 wilkie Arnaud: and the status on each document. I've looked at this page and it hasn't gotten much love. no edits since sandro put it together # 18:13 wilkie Arnaud: I wanted to raise this issue. not sure if people forgot about it, but we should update this page maybe each editor takes responsibility for the section they are editing # 18:14 wilkie Arnaud: are there any issues with this page to be raised? I see amy didn't see that it was there so hopefully it was that people didn't get a chance to see it or review it. cwebber joined the channel
# 18:14 cwebber sorry I'm late # 18:14 cwebber present+ cwebber2 # 18:14 wilkie Arnaud: there was an agenda put together by the chairs and sandro # 18:15 wilkie Arnaud: trying to figure out how to make this meeting productive and efficient # 18:16 wilkie Arnaud: is seems unreasonable to pick a winner among various specs. what seems reasonable is to note what the differences are and what strengths each have. # 18:16 wilkie Arnaud: something to guide a developer to choose one solution over another. this seems like something we can defend. something where people can work on specs in parallel and such that people can choose appropiately which to use. # 18:17 wilkie Arnaud: the working group charter will expire at the end of the year and it is unknown if there will be any extension # 18:17 wilkie Arnaud: the money is thin and it is unsure if there is any expectation of extension and we should assume we will end at the end of the year and how to best use the time we have left # 18:18 wilkie Arnaud: there are specs we can get to CR by june and publish at the end of year # 18:18 wilkie Arnaud: we should focus and not let differences of opinion to sidetrack us and we all agree not having anything to show is the worst case # 18:18 wilkie Arnaud: so we should note and focus on what specs are good for and when they are appropriate # 18:19 shevski that sounds good, where would this guidance live? in the social web protocols doc? # 18:19 wilkie Arnaud: and defer to fellow chairs and open it to the rest of the group for suggestions # 18:19 wilkie Arnaud: as always the agenda is a wiki and one can feel free to add items to that agenda # 18:20 wilkie Arnaud: I see rhiaro has +1 and she should be able to help us with this task with her work comparing and aggregating the specifications in her guiding document # 18:20 wilkie Arnaud: no one is on the queue so nobody is dying to speak # 18:20 wilkie Arnaud: so that's about it for the agenda. is there anything else anybody else wants to bring up today? # 18:21 wilkie bengo: couple of weeks ago I mentioned I might not be able to get to Boston # 18:21 tantek q+ to request demos, and spec progress at f2f # 18:21 Loqi @daviderwin :: @bengo @losowsky @gjbarb It is in development. I'll ping you soon. Thanks for the #w3 links. Will strongly consider adjusting to conform. # 18:21 wilkie bengo: I missed the call because I was meeting with the Coral project leads # 18:21 wilkie bengo: Coral is a mozilla project about making open source tools for online media # 18:21 wilkie bengo: there are factors where social web specs would fit with them # 18:22 wilkie bengo: they were intrigued and we discovered mozilla is a w3c member # 18:22 wilkie bengo: and they said they would look at implementing some of the specs for their socialweb usecases # 18:22 wilkie AnnB: I was wondering if that guy is located in the east can he come to the f2f? # 18:22 wilkie bengo: I think in NYC and I will remind them about the F2F next week # 18:23 wilkie tantek: also the indiewebcamp. he is at mozilla so he can talk to the people in charge of standards # 18:23 wilkie tantek: I've emailed the coral folks in the past and got some positive noises but sometimes it takes somebody from the outside to get attention # 18:24 wilkie bengo: I talked to them a while ago and there were just getting things going # 18:24 wilkie bengo: I sent several specs and will send them the document status page # 18:24 Zakim tantek, you wanted to request demos, and spec progress at f2f # 18:24 wilkie Arnaud: alright thank you. tantek is on the queue? # 18:24 cwebber I just put our demo on the agenda # 18:25 wilkie tantek: yes. there is a demo section on the [f2f] agenda and want to see the activitypump federation. ah thank you chris. # 18:25 wilkie tantek: if you can update it to use activitypub that would be more awesome hint hint # 18:26 wilkie tantek: we will also discuss drafts to publish so there is a required reading section which has only 3 things right now # 18:26 wilkie tantek: if you want to discuss more add things to that list # 18:26 wilkie tantek: we want very much to help editors to move forward with documents. any questions about that process, reach out to us # 18:26 cwebber tantek, sorry, that won't happen by then, but we'll instead be able to demonstrate what will change between that and AP # 18:26 wilkie tantek: we want to use the f2f to move this forward and empower editors to do so # 18:27 wilkie Arnaud: if not, I think we'll be able to close the call early # 18:27 wilkie Arnaud: I don't think we have anything in the tracker, do we?? we copy and paste this over but I'm not sure it is useful anymore. # 18:27 wilkie Arnaud: anyone want to give an update to the actions listed. there are a bunch still listed and I've been probing to have people clean that up. # 18:28 wilkie Arnaud: with actions... either you complete the action, bring it up to the group, or there is something blocking you. # 18:28 wilkie Arnaud: so maybe with the f2f, you should take a look at that list and assess what is blocking you # 18:29 wilkie shevski: hey. I have a question: is there a list of where these specs are implemented. # 18:29 wilkie shevski: should we push to have more people using them # 18:29 wilkie tantek: there is a list for activity streams somewhere off the homepage that lists implementations # 18:29 wilkie tantek: most of those are a little outdated or about AS1 # 18:30 wilkie Arnaud: btw when we go to CR we have to be formal about this. there is an implemention report we have to present to show the specs are implemented. # 18:31 wilkie shevski: is it worth having one of the agenda items to update that doc or create a new doc for that? # 18:31 wilkie shevski: and talk about what/who is in the pipeline for implementation and start that work # 18:32 wilkie tantek: right now we need volunteers, we need that document to be cleaner. can people (looking at bengo) add new items to this list or move this to a more general location. # 18:32 wilkie tantek: should we make that an action, Arnaud? # 18:33 wilkie Arnaud: we aren't doing that good at tracking those actions. for me it is really for bengo to figure out if this is useful to him... the formal action. not doubting the importance of this page. # 18:33 bengo Maybe have implementation links/lists in the Document Status page sections? # 18:33 wilkie aaronpk: not on the queue but I want to jump in. I have implementations listed in the spec. so you can see how many implementations there are right now. # 18:34 shevski great! +1 to adding to document status # 18:34 wilkie Arnaud: maybe what we need is to put these on the document status page and we can add a link or a list # 18:34 shevski and to getting that updated before the f2f # 18:34 wilkie sandro: you would rather not use a wiki for this aaronpk? # 18:34 wilkie aaronpk: I have no trouble with the current method and will take PRs # 18:35 wilkie sandro: going forward it cannot be in the spec because the list will change but the spec cannot change # 18:35 wilkie sandro: it surely is convenient, but we should aim to have it out of the spec at some point # 18:35 wilkie tantek: perhaps when we go to CR we can have a list "at the point of CR" and link to a wiki for more # 18:36 Zakim sees sandro, shevski on the speaker queue # 18:36 wilkie Arnaud: in the spec? it can be in the wiki, but it cannot be in the spec. we have to freeze the spec. it can have a pointer to implementations. # 18:36 bengo q+ to wonder "Has there been a call for implementations for AS2 yet?" # 18:36 wilkie sandro: what comes to mind is w3 wiki slash implementations and that would be nice to have all implementations of specs but maybe a wiki isn't good enough and editors want more control # 18:37 wilkie tantek: wiki pages don't work because people can put things there and they disappear # 18:37 wilkie sandro: good pages have commentary but also will have test results # 18:37 cwebber AS2 has some implementations # 18:37 wilkie Arnaud: I think a page of informal list of implementations so we know what's there. and then there is the CR list which shows a formal knowledge of what is capable but not let the world add whatever # 18:38 wilkie Arnaud: it would be useful to gather that information regardless # 18:38 cwebber but not AP, AP has predecessor implementations in pump.io # 18:38 Zakim bengo, you wanted to wonder "Has there been a call for implementations for AS2 yet?" # 18:38 wilkie aaronpk: has there been a call for implementations for AS2? # 18:38 tantek wiki pages for implementations lists by themselves in particular seem kind of ineffective # 18:39 wilkie tantek: there hasn't been a formal call for implementations at the w3c but these days usually there is some degree of implementation throughout # 18:40 wilkie tantek: it is your and your company's call when to implement # 18:40 wilkie bengo: I've burned some social capital with older specs but the spec is currently very good # 18:40 wilkie Arnaud: that's the risk which is why formally there is that CR spec where people have agreed upon much of the spec and issues are closed # 18:40 tantek it's a trade-off. in the past we'd (W3C) also get unimplementable specs because no one tried. # 18:40 shevski sandro: re implementations, i was thinking something more human readable with context on use cases too # 18:41 wilkie Arnaud: and there is a tradeoff between the two approaches where you wait too long to implement fully and are more likely to find issues # 18:41 wilkie Arnaud: anything else? if not I'll give back the time and we'll meet next at the F2F meeting # 18:41 wilkie Arnaud: although I personally will not be attending # 18:41 AnnB scribes are angels # 18:42 cwebber one more thing! # 18:42 cwebber so to anyone interested # 18:42 cwebber LibrePlanet is right after our meeting # 18:42 Zakim As of this point the attendees have been wilkie, bengo, Arnaud, Rob_Sanderson, tantek, dmitriz, AnnB, aaronpk, Ira, sandro, rhiaro, eprodrom, KevinMarks, cwebber2, tsyesika # 18:42 cwebber you may wish to come! # 18:43 cwebber it's the FSF's major conference, and has always been good in my experience # 18:43 cwebber especially the last few years # 18:43 wilkie I'm a fast typist. when I was in school we weren't allowed to call it 'typing' because it wasn't a typewriter it was a keyboard. so at that time it was being a 'keyist' # 18:43 wilkie I think we have eventually thrown out that distinction?? # 18:43 cwebber now we need to through out all the e- stuff # 18:44 cwebber e-mail is just mail, e-meetings are just meetings # 18:44 tantek cwebber: especially throw out all the email ;) # 18:44 shevski cwebber: i was planning to come to libreplanet, but need to find monies # 18:44 cwebber shevski: if you are an FSF associate member, it's gratis to attend # 18:44 wilkie cwebber: I would have but I have a wedding to go to D: # 18:44 cwebber wilkie: ah, well weddings are good (usually!) # 18:45 cwebber tantek: free as in free software, not as in free beer :) # 18:45 shevski Well, unless i'm somehow magically an associate member? # 18:45 cwebber shevski: you can also two-for-one sign up ahead of time # 18:45 cwebber associate member # 18:45 cwebber it's $120/year iirc # 18:45 cwebber gotta go for a few, brb jaywink joined the channel
# 20:30 Loqi Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next # 21:12 Zakim excuses himself; his presence no longer seems to be needed bblfish joined the channel
Loqi Sandro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2016-03-16]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=97679&oldid=97661
jtilles Hey, I heard that the WG would really appreciate help with AS2 & tests, but it's not clear to me how to get involved.
RRSAgent logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-social-irc
KevinMarks present+
tantek https://www.w3.org/wiki/Activity_Streams#Implementations <--- outdated implementations
sandro Here's my idea of an Implementation Report: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/reports/index.html