#social 2017-11-14

2017-11-14 UTC
rowan, timbl and cdchapman joined the channel
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cwebber2
nightpool: Gargron: cool to read https://github.com/tootsuite/mastodon/issues/177#issuecomment-344056590 ... I'm really interested in helping to see if we can find a good direction, assuming you'd welcome my input on the direction you'd go.
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Loqi
[nightpool] Me and @Gargron and a couple other developers had a chat on Saturday, and we decided that this is currently the highest priority enhancement for us as a project. We hope to have at least partial fixes for this emerge soon, things that address some of...
xmpp-social, cdchapman, bengo and JanKusanagi joined the channel
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puckipedia
https://dl.puckipedia.com/up/ooh_fancy.png this looks so niiiice
jankusanagi_, timbl and rowan joined the channel
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cwebber2
puckipedia: !!
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cwebber2
puckipedia: exciting!
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puckipedia
I know! it's only getting better btw :P now that I know what to have and what not to have
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puckipedia
note that I'm also really building my own templating system now
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puckipedia
I only just added support for nested object-getting inside one template, because it was getting absurd
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puckipedia
also help people that announce OStatus posts crash my server lol
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cwebber2
puckipedia: I am glad you are having fun with it and building cool things!
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puckipedia
working on a "reply" page
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puckipedia
226 | 2017-11-14 16:08:41.060096 | 2017-11-15 18:40:37.532654 | 23 | DeliverToActivityPubTask | {"TargetInbox":"https://puckipedia.com/inbox","ObjectId":"https://octodon.social/users/cwebber/statuses/99003407965803437/activity"}
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puckipedia
I blame you
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puckipedia
huh. mentioning a non-AP user also explodes
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puckipedia
oh finally, the mystical non-upgrade mastodon
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cwebber2
hey puckipedia, can you comment on the two "missing" slots on https://activitypub.rocks/implementation-report/
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cwebber2
you can hover over the names on the left for the description
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cwebber2
I wonder if you actually do have both of those but they were just added later so
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puckipedia
I check if the attributedTo/actor of the object is equal to the actor for Update (and only local objects), and I trim down incoming objects to only their Origin (when pushed, I might not do this if you manually GET it, this is a bug)
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cwebber2
puckipedia: you also check http signatures iirc right?
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puckipedia
yes. one small exception, because I don't have json-ld signatures: if you POST to the sharedInbox, the post has an http signature, *but* doesn't equal the actor in the object, it will remove its knowledge of the incoming object and only use the ID
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puckipedia
this is for Mastodon's federated replies
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cwebber2
this test wasn't about the sharedInbox anyway
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puckipedia
yeah
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cwebber2
so I think both of these can be marked "yes"
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puckipedia
just mentioning it :P
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cwebber2
cool thanks puckipedia !
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cwebber2
that's two more components with 2 implementations marked "yes"
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cwebber2
which is the bar we need for each of these
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cwebber2
suddenly realizing that server:security-considerations:filter-incoming-content is misfiled
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cwebber2
that one should have been client: ...
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cwebber2
because we don't require (or even desire) that you "change" an incoming object
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cwebber2
just that you protect the user when displaying
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cwebber2
oh well I'll fix that today
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cwebber2
puckipedia: oh I'm guessing you're getting close to being able to fill out the client section too, huh?
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puckipedia
mmmmaybe
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Loqi
nice
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cwebber2
well I still need to get soci-el up there
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puckipedia
aaand I have replies working :P
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Loqi
yay!
rowan joined the channel
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Loqi
[Flammekueche Sournoise ‮✨?☕] oh. my. god. "behind the scenes it is using screen" omg please help https://github.com/sebbekarlsson/systemctl
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aaronpk
did you put an RTL control character in your name?
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puckipedia
that's not me, but someone else, but yes
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aaronpk
that's amazing
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puckipedia
fun fact, others can view the public posts in my inbox as well https://puckipedia.com/inbox (... I may have not yet added CW support)
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puckipedia
it's a miracle
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puckipedia
Delete's actually Delete an object
cdchapman and ajordan joined the channel
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ajordan
do we have a telecon today? my primary IRC bouncer is down :/
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ajordan
is currently in the web interface
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cwebber2
ajordan: we do have one
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aaronpk
there is no agenda page
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cwebber2
but it is listed on the wiki page!
bengo, timbl, JanKusanagi and ajordan joined the channel
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rhiaro
hello hello
eprodrom joined the channel
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cwebber2
it's that time again, eh?
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rhiaro
someone else beat me to the agenda
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eprodrom
seems like it
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cwebber2
it says I'm the first one! is it true or did I dial into the wrong thing :)
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cwebber2
oh I hear someone
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eprodrom
can we get a scribe?
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eprodrom
trackbot, start meeting
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trackbot
is preparing a teleconference.
RRSAgent joined the channel
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trackbot
RRSAgent, make logs public
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RRSAgent
I have made the request, trackbot
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trackbot
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
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trackbot
Date: 14 November 2017
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eprodrom
I'm going to wait till 5 after the hour
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rhiaro
present+
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cwebber2
present+
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ajordan
present+
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ajordan
IRC only for 5-10 minutes
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ajordan
sorry (again)
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eprodrom
present+
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eprodrom
scribe please?
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rhiaro
I can scribe
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rhiaro
scribenick: rhiaro
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rhiaro
sandro is gonna be 10 mins late
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cwebber2
sandroooooo
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cwebber2
just jokin
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rhiaro
Zakim, who is here?
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Zakim
Present: tantek, cwebber, npdoty, annbass, hadleybeeman, snarfed, torgo, rhiaro, ajordan, eprodrom
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Zakim
... cwebber2, adam, dlongley, DenSchub, jungkees, jaywink, raucao, saranix, bwn, erincandescent, jet, rhiaro, ben_thatmustbeme, Gargron, sknebel, melody, mattl, bigbluehat,
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Zakim
... surinna, bitbear, howl, dwhly, tsyesika, sandro, nightpool, trackbot, puckipedia
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Zakim
On IRC I see RRSAgent, eprodrom, ajordan, JanKusanagi, bengo, cdchapman, rowan, xmpp-social, csarven, dlehn, flackr, KjetilK, hadleybeeman, Zakim, Chocobozzz, Loqi, aaronpk, er1n,
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ajordan
dialing in!
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rhiaro
roll up roll up everyone
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aaronpk
present+
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ajordan
it took less time than I thought to finish the poem I have due in an hour :P
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bengo
present+
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cwebber2
bad poetry / oh noetry
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rhiaro
there are a bunch of presents that aren't right
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cwebber2
poem done!
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ajordan
cwebber2: oh my god
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cwebber2
not an original poem
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rhiaro
TOPIC: Last week's minutes 31st Oct
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eprodrom
PROPOSED: Approve https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-10-31-minutes as minutes for 31 Oct 2017 telecon
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ajordan
cwebber2 love it
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cwebber2
scroll scroll scroll
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sandro
dialing
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rhiaro
<rhiaro> +1
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eprodrom
+1
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rhiaro
eprodrom: any objections?
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ajordan
two minutes after dialing in and I've already nerdsniped cwebber2 with something else yikes
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eprodrom
RESOLVED: Approve https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2017-10-31-minutes as minutes for 31 Oct 2017 telecon
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sandro
present+
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cwebber2
is easy to nerdsnipe let's be honest
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Switching the agenda around. Starting with TPAC, then WebSub then AP
tantek joined the channel
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rhiaro
TOPIC: TPAC update
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rhiaro
... can Chris and/or sandro tell us what happened?
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rhiaro
sandro: I missed my flight, I wasn't at that part
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ajordan
cwebber2 same tho
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rhiaro
cwebber2: It was more of a social CG gathering, but still interesting and relevant
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rhiaro
... Off the top of my memory, we started off with introducing people and what's happening in this space
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rhiaro
... including one of the mastodon node hosters was there, toot.cafe
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tantek
regrets+
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rhiaro
... we demo'd two mastodon sites interoperating
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tantek
Zakim, who is here?
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Zakim
Present: tantek, cwebber, npdoty, annbass, hadleybeeman, snarfed, torgo, rhiaro, ajordan, eprodrom, aaronpk, bengo, sandro
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rhiaro
... it was adhoc
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Zakim
... aaronpk, er1n, cwebber2, adam, dlongley, DenSchub, jungkees, jaywink, raucao, saranix, bwn, erincandescent, jet, rhiaro, ben_thatmustbeme, Gargron, sknebel, melody, mattl,
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Zakim
sees on irc: tantek, RRSAgent, eprodrom, ajordan, JanKusanagi, bengo, cdchapman, rowan, xmpp-social, csarven, dlehn, flackr, KjetilK, hadleybeeman, Zakim, Chocobozzz, Loqi,
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Zakim
... bigbluehat, surinna, bitbear, howl, dwhly, tsyesika, sandro, nightpool, trackbot, puckipedia
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rhiaro
... we then moved to discussing anti abuse tooling
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rhiaro
... and what we could do to get the ideas effective. a lot about distributed block lists and other things
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rhiaro
... and then it went into something that's not currently work in the socialcg but a favourite rathole of mine
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rhiaro
... what would it bel ike ifyou had a federated MUD or other federated game
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rhiaro
... There may have been other things
timbl joined the channel
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rhiaro
... But people were excited about social spaces with rules
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tantek
(we discussed Vouch a bit too as part of anti-abuse)
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rhiaro
... any questions?
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Loqi
Social Web Incubator Community Group Meeting at TPAC https://www.w3.org/wiki/images/3/36/2017-11-06-socialcg-f2f.jpg
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rhiaro
eprodrom: was there any discussion by any Members who showed up about either of the specs that we're working on right now?
jankusanagi_ joined the channel
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rhiaro
cwebber2: there were some people from the TAG who were interested in this stuff
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rhiaro
... There were two separate meetings! I'm mixing them up
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rhiaro
... We had a conversation where the TAG showed up and I'm tryign to remember everything that happened there. We spent more time talking about .. we also had somebody from bridgy (snarfed Ryan Barrett)
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rhiaro
... that's where most of the conversation about the anti abuse tooling happened
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tantek
eprodrom, there were questions about like should brands/companies just install and launch their own Mastodon instances? and we discussed the Monoculture problem
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rhiaro
... The TAG didn't know mastodon were using our protocol
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tantek
(like if everyone "just runs Mastodon", then AP becomes the Mastodon API instead of an open standard)
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rhiaro
... The majority of the conversation was anti abuse tooling
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rhiaro
eprodrom: I'm pretty surprised about that
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rhiaro
... it doesn't seem like the network is active enough that abuse is a problem
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rhiaro
cwebber2: there's a LOT of active moderation on mastodon
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rhiaro
... that's one of the biggest topics
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rhiaro
... a lot of mastodon users are pretty happy is because mastodon builds in a lot of tooling
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Zakim
sees ajordan on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
... there has been a culture clash between people from different communities
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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tantek
unfortunately had a conflict this morning, meeting at work
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rhiaro
... people are concerned about making sure it keeps working
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tantek
small (very small) little launch today at work
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Talking about tooling, you mean like spam filters? Or is it more like stuff that's built into particular networks like silencing and so on?
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rhiaro
cwebber2: people are interested in all of that across the board
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ajordan
tantek congrats anyway!
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rhiaro
... there's the general feeling that we have to explore a number of different approaches and it's not clear which arethe most accessible or that we might need a combination ot really get the job done
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees sandro on the speaker queue
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ajordan
what're y'all launching?
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rhiaro
... a lot of people are really interested in federated block lists and a web of trust and distrust
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rhiaro
... There was one more topic that was pretty big
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Loqi
[nightpool] Me and @Gargron and a couple other developers had a chat on Saturday, and we decided that this is currently the highest priority enhancement for us as a project. We hope to have at least partial fixes for this emerge soon, things that address some of...
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rhiaro
... and is increasing because it looks like this is going to be the next major topic in mastodon
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rhiaro
... is account migration
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rhiaro
... still a big issue that people are really intersted in
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rhiaro
... how to handle if your server goes down or you want to move for whatever reason
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rhiaro
... maybe you want to move becus eyou're not happy with the moderation policies, or you're not happy because.. or you want to host your own
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rhiaro
... These remain the two biggest conversations in the CG
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
... interesting also to see that the people who showed up without prior experience also wanted to talk about these issues
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rhiaro
eprodrom: really interesting
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rhiaro
... definitely interesting questions
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rhiaro
... migration is a pretty fun one
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rhiaro
... a lot of stuff that does not necessarily seem to be standards questions
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rhiaro
needs to go
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rhiaro
one sec
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rhiaro
someone scribe
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eprodrom
scribe?
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bengo
I will
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eprodrom
scribenick: bengo
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bengo
shakes off dust
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bengo
eprodrom is there a cg meeting tomorrow?
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bengo
cwebber2 no, next week
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Zakim
sees sandro on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
is back sorry
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rhiaro
my landlady wanted rent
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bengo
eprodrom there will be some things that are patterns, some are one-off APIs, other things that might be standardized
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eprodrom
ack sandro
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
sandro my perception of mastodon is that the community there polices in a way that there are good people and bad people
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rhiaro
ohai bengo
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tantek
rhiaro uh, isn't it the *14th* ?!?
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bengo
rhiaro (take scribe back?)
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bengo
sandro I happen to agree with their notion of good peopel and bad people, but not their policing
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rhiaro
tantek huh?
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rhiaro
oh yeah I moved in on the ~14th of June
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bengo
sandro obviously you could have a fork where someone uses a fork and deploy a node cut off from mian network
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rhiaro
scribenick: rhiaro
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tantek
rhiaro usually rent is due the 1st ?
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rhiaro
eprodrom: it's interesting to see how these patterns work out
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rhiaro
... I think those are things we can talk about at the CG
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ajordan
eprodrom: wondering if we can do AS2 since I have to leave
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rhiaro
... tantek, anything about TPAC?
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ajordan
we can postpone too
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ajordan
no no no
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tantek
rhiaro, sounds like cwebber2 covered it :) just dropped in the wiki page for our first SocialCG f2f! https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2017-11-06
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Loqi
Social Web Incubator Community Group Meeting at TPAC https://www.w3.org/wiki/images/3/36/2017-11-06-socialcg-f2f.jpg
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Loqi
[tantek] hey hey we're in the SocialCG f2f at TPAC!!!
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rhiaro
TOPIC: WebSub
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rhiaro
eprodrom: sandro, upate?
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rhiaro
sandro: I'm a little confused about process here. There are two comments and I believe they are technically member confidential
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rhiaro
... I don't know how the group is supposed to respond to that
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rhiaro
... they both request the change but don't require it
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tantek
sandro, I believe there is only substantive comment (HTTPS must vs should)
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tantek
s/only/only one
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rhiaro
am I scribing this or not?
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tantek
the other is editorial about the WBS system vs what the spec says
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rhiaro
guess it's not confidential any more
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rhiaro
sandro: one is that HTTPS should be a MUST rather than a SHOULD
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rhiaro
... our reply to that is that we can't for back compat
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tantek
which we should log in GitHub and discuss
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tantek
yes exactly. agreed with sandro
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rhiaro
eprodrom: have we talked about this before?
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rhiaro
aaronpk: I don't think we have
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tantek
we can even resolve on that if someone can create the issue in GH fast enough :)
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
aaronpk: I agree we don't have to require it because it uses the secret to verify the payload
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rhiaro
... HTTPS just provides privacy on the transport, which is not a guarantee that we are claiming to make
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rhiaro
... The spec should be concerned about successfully delivering notifications, which can be verified by HTTPS or the secret
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rhiaro
sandro: but if you don't use https when you send the secret?
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tantek
The compat argument is the strongest one IMO
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rhiaro
aaronpk: the hashing mechanism verifies the payload even over http
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rhiaro
cwebber2: it's a SHOULD in AP because it might have some sort of use inside a corporate network with http
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rhiaro
... 2 is that you may use it with a scheme that's not http at all. At Rebooting WoT something about ids
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rhiaro
... URIs have schemes beyond http and https. I feel like that's a reasonable justification here
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rhiaro
eprodrom: in AP they act as identifiers so that's fine
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rhiaro
... in websub we're talking about actual endpoints that are being used for posting and retreiving things
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rhiaro
... so it's a bit more important
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rhiaro
... it sounds like the question is is the verifiability of http with extra parameters in websub sufficient that we don't need to make this a MUST
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rhiaro
... and I think that that's the case
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rhiaro
... should we open and close an issue?
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rhiaro
aaronpk: I guess so
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rhiaro
eprodrom: Or we can have a resolution right now
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rhiaro
aaronpk: let's resolve it on the call then we can reference a link
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eprodrom
PROPOSED: retain HTTPS as a "should" or "recommended" requirement in WebSub
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rhiaro
<rhiaro> +1
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eprodrom
+1
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rhiaro
sandro: I don't agree with the security claim but I do agree with the back compat
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rhiaro
aaronpk: you don't agree that the hash is enough to verify the paylaod?
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rhiaro
sandro: on the delivery it is but on the earlier part it isn't
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bengo
+1
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rhiaro
... We don't say the hub must either do we?
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rhiaro
... it would be higher priority to make the hub do it
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sandro
+1 for backward compatibility, extensibility
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rhiaro
eprodrom: basically we say it is strongly recommended
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rhiaro
... to use https for all requests
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eprodrom
"It is strongly recommended to use HTTPS for all requests."
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rhiaro
sandro: the notification endpoint, there's not that much reason but still probably a good idea
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rhiaro
eprodrom: any objections?
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cwebber2
no objection
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cwebber2
I'd better not object then!
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eprodrom
RESOLVED: retain HTTPS as a "should" or "recommended" requirement in WebSub
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cwebber2
+1 with serious objections jk jk
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ajordan
s/LOL/lol/ oops capslock makin me seem overenthusiastic
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rhiaro
sandro: second issue is editorial regarding editors list
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rhiaro
lost audio, is it me?
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ajordan
rhiaro just you, I hear it
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rhiaro
missed a minute there
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eprodrom
PROPOSED: add invited expert status for author and editors of WebSub
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eprodrom
+1
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rhiaro
<rhiaro> +1
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sandro
+1 as affiliation, in head matter
ajordan_ joined the channel
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rhiaro
eprodrom: any reservations to that?
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eprodrom
RESOLVED: add invited expert status for author and editors of WebSub
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rhiaro
eprodrom: do we need a proposal to publish?
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rhiaro
sandro: at this point it's up to director not the WG
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rhiaro
... any other editorial changes?
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tantek
uh, if they're employees of W3C members I'm not sure we can do that
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tantek
like folks that work for Google
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rhiaro
aaronpk: still a couple of open issues which might result in editorial changes
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rhiaro
sandro: we should resolve that we'd like these changes
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rhiaro
... if we can do that in the next 10 minutes
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tantek
sandro, perhaps ask if they could join the WG?
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aaronpk
tantek, just julien and me
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sandro
tantek, as if who could join the WG...??
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tantek
sandro, Brad?
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rhiaro
aaronpk: one review we got I split up into issues and we haven't talked about them yet
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rhiaro
eprodrom: what are our options for incorporating those?
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rhiaro
... something we need to decide here or should we discuss as we go to PR
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rhiaro
sandro: we're already at PR
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rhiaro
eprodrom: REC
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rhiaro
sandro: we should solve before we ask for transition to REC
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tantek
we have to come up with responses to all the comments on the PR
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rhiaro
eprodrom: so what is outstanding?
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tantek
including the issues that aaronpk split-up from that one mega-issue
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rhiaro
aaronpk: it's a bunch of really small things, should be editorial
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rhiaro
... but we do need to respond to all of them
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sandro
tantek, feel free, but I'd be surprised if they'd do it, and I don't see why it would matter at this point
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rhiaro
eprodrom: there are 17 items. I'm not sure we have time
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tantek
we need 1) answers to those issues (either by aaronpk, or discussed here), and 2) resolutions from the WG on those answers
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tantek
do we need a telcon next week for this?
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rhiaro
has mega lag
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rhiaro
needs a mniute
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cwebber2
just linking things
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cwebber2
let us know when we can continue
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rhiaro
i thought my last messages hadn't gone but they did
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rhiaro
TOPIC: AP
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rhiaro
cwebber2: there are two open issues, one is a personal TODO so I'll move it out
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rhiaro
... The implementation reports for mastodon is also not an issue, we're just trying to wrap up their implementation reports
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rhiaro
... so no open issues left, just two things for the editors' sake that won't affect the spec
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rhiaro
... hoorraaayyy
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rhiaro
... Good news, we have implementation reports page and 5 submissions, and 1 more pending
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rhiaro
... things that don't yet have two submissions ^
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rhiaro
... Most do
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rhiaro
... 6 client ones
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rhiaro
... 6 inbox delivery issues
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rhiaro
... and two security considerations
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rhiaro
... the bad news is it's today and we still have these
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rhiaro
... the good news is I think if I took a week we could get them
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bengo
I can probably add some stuff to distbin where it helps get to 2
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rhiaro
<rhiaro> I need to catch up my implementation too :s
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rhiaro
cwebber2: I assume we want to wait til next week to move to PR
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rhiaro
sandro: we can't move forward until we have time
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rhiaro
cwebber2: that's the state of things
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rhiaro
... bot for WebSub and AP we need a call next week
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rhiaro
s/bot/both
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rhiaro
eprodrom: working backwards, if we approve PR next week will that count?
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rhiaro
I thinkw e're fine cos sandro and I sneakily built in a little buffer?
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rhiaro
sandro: technically we only have to go to PR by the end of the WG. It looks bad, but we can technically do it
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rhiaro
... to actually go to REC by the end of the WG maybe next week we can still do it
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rhiaro
... let's try for next week, but it's not the end of the world if we can't
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rhiaro
cwebber2: I'm in favour of everything ready for PR next week
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rhiaro
... I'm very confident that will happen
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rhiaro
eprdrom: will get mine in
#
rhiaro
eprodrom: will get mine in
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bengo
evan can make activitypubcoin
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rhiaro
... Seems like we're moving along
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ajordan_
if I go *really* hard I might be able to land AP in pump.io master
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ajordan_
don't want to commit though because I have some papers due lol
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rhiaro
eprodrom: it doesn' thave to go to master AJ, just has to exist
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rhiaro
... Anything else about AP?
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rhiaro
cwebber2: not as far as I know
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bengo
Ooh!
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tantek
present+
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bengo
I have a thing
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rhiaro
eprodrom: any other business?
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bengo
I bought activitypub.com
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bengo
where should I redirect it?
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Zakim
sees cwebber, ajordan_ on the speaker queue
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bengo
activitypub.rocks?
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bengo
or spec?
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sandro
ajordan_, it sounds like you don't need to do that for next week, but instead plan to have that for the REC announcement
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ajordan_
lolllll
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cwebber2
bengo: I guess activitypub.rocks would be good!
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rhiaro
cwebber2: why didn't i buy that...??
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bengo
I will
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bengo
but for now...
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rhiaro
eprodrom: hold onto it and sell it when AP is huge
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ajordan_
sandro: noted, that's nice to know
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cwebber2
bengo: thank youuu
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bengo
activitypub.rocks
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eprodrom
ack cwebber
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Zakim
sees ajordan_ on the speaker queue
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bengo
will do this week
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Zakim
sees ajordan_ on the speaker queue
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eprodrom
ack ajordan_
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
eprodrom: it looks like we have 10 minutes so ajordan_ are you here?
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rhiaro
ajordan: was something else
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tantek
q+ to note concern about outstanding issues on WebSub
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Zakim
sees tantek on the speaker queue
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tantek
mutes
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rhiaro
... I'm almost done weith a webmention implementation and websub shouldn't be too far off
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rhiaro
... something automatically do the right thing.
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rhiaro
... AS2 is really close to shipping in pump.io
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rhiaro
... There's one issue on the agenda
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rhiaro
... and AP isn't far behind that
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eprodrom
ack tantek
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Zakim
tantek, you wanted to note concern about outstanding issues on WebSub
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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rhiaro
TOPIC: AOB
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rhiaro
tantek: we have quite a few number as the result of comments on websub
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rhiaro
... I think we need to promptly have answeres to those that the group resolves on, either resulting in no changes or editorial changes, assuming there isn't an actual implementation problem
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rhiaro
... I feel a sense of urgency on that
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rhiaro
eprodrom: we agreed earlier that aaron and julien are going to look through these, identify ones that don't require WG input and then we will next tuesday have another meeting where we'll vote on the rest of them
#
rhiaro
sandro: can we plan for next week being 90 mins?
#
rhiaro
tantek: I agree
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cwebber2
+1 to a long meeting next week
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ajordan_
I can't do longer than 60 minutes as usual but by all means go for it
#
rhiaro
tantek: Second thing.. because we're trying to wrap up our normative documents and there's a lot of activity going on, and stuff beyond in the CG
#
rhiaro
... there are a lot of implementations that interoperate in ways that we ight not have fully covered
#
rhiaro
... I think there's opportunity here if interest to close out the year with a few informative notes that are kind of capturing the state of interop of extensions or additons to existing specs
#
rhiaro
... just want to put it out as something to think about
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rhiaro
... Thinking about treating PTD that way because it's evolving
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rhiaro
dropped again
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cwebber2
scribenick: cwebber2
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cwebber2
eprodrom: one thing the CG is discussing is what's missing, maybe we can talk about what can be done there and move to a note, or move that work to the CG
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ajordan_
there's already a wiki page
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cwebber2
tantek: I'd love to have the CG have a note about what topics are worth exploring
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cwebber2
eprodrom: ok great, I want to move to ajordan_'s topic of discussion... if you want to bring it up now before 2:00?
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cwebber2
ajordan_: I'll bring it up to the CG tomorrow
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cwebber2
we don't have one tomorrow do we?
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cwebber2
ajordan_: AS2 doc says how to transform AS1 -> AS2 but says nothing about the vocabulary
#
tantek
in particular I'd like to see us publish a number of "interop NOTEs" where we document uses of our specs with 3+ more interop impls
#
cwebber2
ajordan_: pump.io has to transform as1 to as2 as last step of response handler, but some of them have no equivalent in as2
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
#
Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
eprodrom: my first response is if we need to do that we'll do an extension vocabulary... I'm pretty suprised we have stuff in pump.io that didn't make it into as2 but sometimes that happens
#
cwebber2
ajordan_: I have no data on what verbs people are actually using, so I don't know if there's data out there for it
#
cwebber2
ajordan_: my assumpiton is a lot of verbs were dropped due to low evidence of implementation
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cwebber2
eprodrom: why don't you and I talk about this, if parts of pump.io don't have a match we'll do an extension vocab
#
cwebber2
we have an extension mechanism in as2 too
#
cwebber2
ajordan_: I was just consulting as1 stats
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cwebber2
sandro: I encourage you put them in the as2 namespace, that's what the CG is meant to do
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cwebber2
eprodrom: I don't think there's time for next week
#
cwebber2
sandro: I don't think there's time pressure
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cwebber2
eprodrom: you had asked me about this earlier ajordan_, we'll deal with it soon
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cwebber2
eprodrom: any other business?
#
cwebber2
eprodrom: no CG meeting tomorrow so we'll deal with this 1 on 1 ajordan_
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cwebber2
eprodrom: we have a meeting same time same place but longer next week
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cwebber2
eprodrom: tantek, can you chair?
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cwebber2
tantek: ACK, can chair
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ajordan_
s/as1 stats/thee as1 spec/
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cwebber2
eprodrom: thanks everyone!
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ajordan_
thanks all! hope the noisy hallway wasn't too bad lol
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ajordan_
goes to class
#
eprodrom
ha
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eprodrom
OK, thanks everyone
#
cwebber2
trackbot, end meeting
#
Zakim
As of this point the attendees have been tantek, cwebber, npdoty, annbass, hadleybeeman, snarfed, torgo, rhiaro, ajordan, eprodrom, aaronpk, bengo, sandro
#
trackbot
is ending a teleconference.
#
trackbot
Zakim, list attendees
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
#
RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2017/11/14-social-minutes.html trackbot
#
trackbot
RRSAgent, bye
#
RRSAgent
I see no action items
#
rhiaro
's internet took a nap
#
eprodrom
cwebber2: so
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tantek
present+
#
eprodrom
places.pub is a server that exposes places in the physical world as AS2 objects at an HTTPS URL, as AP requires
#
cwebber2
eprodrom: that's so cool!
#
eprodrom
Yeah, it's getting there
#
eprodrom
There's also a search interface
#
eprodrom
So you can look up places in a bounding box and with a particular name pattern
#
eprodrom
I had to set up my own OpenStreetMap API server because apparently things like "searching by name" are too gruesome for the public API servers
#
eprodrom
And the search is sloooooowwwwww
#
eprodrom
But it works
#
eprodrom
The API is documented here https://places.pub/api
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tantek
regrets-
#
eprodrom
With places.pub and tags.pub we start having some AS2 services that can be used for naming things globally
#
tantek
hmm, maybe too late? will leave it to cwebber to fix it in post
cdchapman joined the channel
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bengo
sweet evan
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bengo
does/will places.pub receive notifications in an AP inbox?
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bengo
eprodrom
#
puckipedia
bengo: just for reference, my server really doesn't like not having an ID on the object, and/or IDs not being http
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eprodrom
bengo: the goal is yes
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eprodrom
not yet
#
bengo
"distbin:activityPubDeliveryFailures": [
#
bengo
{
#
bengo
"message": "Got unexpected status code 406 when requesting https://places.pub/osm/node/343490371 to determine inbox URL"
#
bengo
}
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bengo
"name": "TargetRequestFailed",
#
bengo
],
#
bengo
cool
#
eprodrom
bengo: same with tags.pub
#
eprodrom
bengo: what Accept header are you using?
#
bengo
mmm
#
eprodrom
Aha
#
bengo
great question
#
eprodrom
OK
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puckipedia
my guess is application/ld+json with the # after the activitystreams
#
bengo
yeah I probably do, I implemented from like spec form a year ago
#
eprodrom
Huh
#
eprodrom
oh, with a profile defined? Hmm
#
eprodrom
so places.pub checks for activity+json, ld+json or just json, and after that it gives up
#
bengo
puckipedia were you one describing issues in posts on distbin.com? https://distbin.com/activities/f96043af-94e9-42a9-b6ff-9428d8e45530
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eprodrom
But if it's ld+json with a profile, I might not be checking that well
#
puckipedia
bengo: yup. I'm going to fix the inbox thing so Kroeg'll deliver to anything with an inbox
#
bengo
sweet
#
puckipedia
but stuff like replies being an inline collection, object not having an ID, and the activity not being a proper ID are things that my server won't support
#
puckipedia
(also you miiight want to define a proper context, e.g. ["https://www.w3.org/ns/activitystreams", {"distbin": "https://distbin.com/ns#"}]
#
Loqi
[Amy Guy] ActivityStreams 2.0 Terms
#
bengo
puckipedia how is that improper?
#
eprodrom
Yeah, that should be OK
#
eprodrom
string, array, or object is OK for @context
#
puckipedia
well, I mean, it's a proper ID, but it isn't dereferencable
#
eprodrom
oooooh
#
tantek
but is it a DID?
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bengo
I'll make it a DID to make tantek so happy
#
tantek
apparently they're all the rage now, or you would think from the blockchainers at TPAC
rowan joined the channel
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puckipedia
bengo: imagine if I said "to": ["urn:uuid:bb259a57-0c04-4f3b-acc0-589204cd8209"]
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puckipedia
how would you deliver to that
#
tantek
I just figure it's the hype TLA of the year, like DHTs were last year
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bengo
just... don't
#
bengo
puckipedia you can look at .url
#
bengo
puckipedia I'll switch to https id's sometime
#
puckipedia
bengo: and please add a separate ID to the object and replies
#
bengo
k
#
puckipedia
... my single-user AP instance already knows 353 users
#
puckipedia
nope there's duplicates
#
puckipedia
http://unicode.org/reports/tr31/#hashtag_identifiers hmm. time to implement this, lol
timbl joined the channel
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cwebber2
puckipedia: huh!
#
cwebber2
I had no idea
timbl and bengo joined the channel