#social 2019-10-09

2019-10-09 UTC
lanodan, puck, xmpp-social, achim[m], KjetilK, KjetilK_, BitBot and dmitriz joined the channel
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jesopo
meeting today?
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jesopo
just looked at the wiki
hellekin and cwebber2 joined the channel
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cwebber2
socialcg meeting in 1.5 hours, eh?
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hellekin
yes!
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cwebber2
if you want something added to the agenda, I can add it (though in about half an hour, have to run an errand real quick)
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cwebber2
oh great
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hellekin
I updated the https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/last-tasks-before-launch/78 with the exhaustive list of topics that need love: if we can get a handful of people to step up, we can launch today.
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jesopo
holá
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melody
people can't step up if they can't get in because you haven't launched
dmitriz and kaniini joined the channel
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kaniini
for whatever reason i never got around to adding this when i switched to quassel
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kaniini
oh well, fixed
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nightpool[m]
probably because in march you said you were boycotting this channel, and haven't been back since
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jesopo
i prefer personcott
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kaniini
which march
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jesopo
of the penguins
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hellekin
melody: we have launched among the people present at APConf, and we have launched with this group here. You can be invited, but I need to know what email you want to use (pm).
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hellekin
anyone on this channel can request early access to https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/ if they want to add their software of help around.
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hellekin
s/of/or
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kaniini
nightpool[m]: well i do not wish to rehash old conflict, but suffice it to say that the situation has evolved since then
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hellekin
kaniini: you're welcome. I hope this is an agonist space, where differences can be listened to and heard.
bengo joined the channel
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kaniini
that is what it is -- now, when litepub was started, this group was extremely biased toward JSON-LD and other semantic web technology, and also biased toward theory instead of what is actually happening in production. but, in many cases, both sides are able to work together and collaborate.
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hellekin
It would be useful to have a litepub discussion on SocialHub kaniini, if you want to lead it.
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kaniini
what the philosophical difference is (was?) is simple -- the litepub group want to incrementally move the protocol toward correctness in tangible ways. in my opinion, APconf marked a reset, because most of the proposals were about incremental fixes that are actually accomplishable
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kaniini
(but litepub will continue to be a vendor-first group, focused on real-world development of the activitypub protocol)
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nightpool[m]
```
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nightpool[m]
/invite zakim
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kaniini
i think, ultimately, everyone in both groups want the same thing. a fediverse with robust, easily understood security properties
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hellekin
kaniini: It would be useful to have a litepub discussion on SocialHub kaniini, if you want to lead it.
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kaniini
the fact that members of the litepub group and the SocialCG have been (and continue to) collaborate on issues like OCAP show this imo :)
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kaniini
hellekin: maybe. i don't know, i have a lot on my plate right now
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hellekin
everybody has. It's a matter of organizing collectively.
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nightpool[m]
stepping aside from this discussion for a minute, these are the steps to start the meeting with proper minutes:
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nightpool[m]
sent a long message: nightpool[m]_2019-10-09_14:33:00.txt <https://matrix.cybre.space/_matrix/media/v1/download/cybre.space/JzUzJhTNoqWfhrZUAMiRvlWG>
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nightpool[m]
(hopefully that comes through okay on IRC)
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jesopo
apropos of nothing, is there any docs of what html can be expected to be found in a Note?
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kaniini
you should expect *any* html in a note and strip it to what you are willing to support
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jesopo
right
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jesopo
what things are common
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jesopo
<p> ofc
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Loqi
agreed.
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jesopo
<br>?
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kaniini
one sec.
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jesopo
<em>, <s>, ?
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jesopo
oki
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jesopo
gotta do html->irc translation for them :|
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kaniini
https://git.pleroma.social/pleroma/pleroma/blob/develop/lib/pleroma/html.ex#L160 is what is accepted by pleroma, friendica, hubzilla and some others
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bengo
jesopo: `curl -H "Accept: application/json" https://distbin.com/activitypub/public` will give you 971 'Create Note' activity examples
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jesopo
brill, thanks
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jesopo
kaniini: ty
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jesopo
i thought masto doesn't do markdown? got a toot sent from Tusky to masto that has _underline_ in the `content` and `contentMap` just have it as raw _ _ and the masto web ui do the underline correctly?
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jesopo
or does masto support a small subset of markdown
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jesopo
soz, lotta dumb Qs ;P
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cwebber2
sets up for the call
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kaniini
my actually good headset is packed away, so i apologize for potato quality
sl007 joined the channel
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cwebber2
nightpool, do you remembe rhow to invite / start trackbot?
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kaniini
jesopo: some mastodon forks use text formatting -- glitch and pleroma worked on the extension to mastodon api together
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cwebber2
whatever the bot is
Zakim and RRSAgent joined the channel
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bengo
I can scribe
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cwebber2
scribenick: bengo
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cwebber2
TOPIC: Evergreen Recs (followup if any after cwebber reached out to w3c staff) (DELAYED)
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bengo
cwebber2: Let's start. First topic is I'd said I'd reach out about evergreen spec stuff. I've been busy and haven't been able to, but hopefully will be next meeting.
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cwebber2
TOPIC: socialhub.activitypub.rocks
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bengo
hellekin: Status update: there are a number of tasks before launch, e.g. creating categories, but we can make them later.
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bengo
hellekin: nightpool is now an admin btw
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bengo
hellekin: We still have a few topics to fill on datashards, OCAP, relationsihp between ActivityPub SIG and SocialCG
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bengo
hellekin: We are ready to launch any time, but we can also wait a bit longer for cwebber2 and serge to start nice topics
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bengo
hellekin: There is a poll about whether to launch or wait ^
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cwebber2
q+ to address ActivityPub special interest group
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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bengo
hellekin: We need more people to get involved and fill more roles, so we have a team and no one person burns out. Other than that, it's pretty much ready.
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cwebber2
ack cwebber
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Zakim
cwebber, you wanted to address ActivityPub special interest group
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: Explaining if people want attention to type 'q+'
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bengo
cwebber2: hellekin are you talking about the ActivityPub W3C CG, chaired by Evan?
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bengo
hellekin: No I'm referring to the discussion we had in Prague about what the role of this socialhub.activitypub.rocks forum would be.
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bengo
cwebber2: Got it. The reason I was unsure is because all before ActivityPub was worked on by w3c SocialWG, Evan had made a w3c cg called ActivityPub. Nevermind then.
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bengo
cwebber2: The general conversation we had in Prague was that this SocialCG maintains more than just ActivityPub
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bengo
cwebber2: But we discussed it could be useful to have a more detailed collaboration space for ActivityPub since there is no SocialCG mailing list, and in there ideas related to ActivityPub could be discussed and percolate, and then could be brought to SocialCG.
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bengo
cwebber2: I am A+ in on that. We could do a vote to give socialhub an official purpose, but I'm not sure it's needed.
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cwebber2
q+ emacsen
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Zakim
sees emacsen on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack emacsen
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
rigelk joined the channel
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bengo
emacsen: I was at this discussion, but didn't fully have the background. I request a quick clarification because datashards came up.
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cwebber2
q+ to answer emacsen about datashards and socialhub
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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kaniini
(that was Pleroma, but not me directly)
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sl007
q+
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Zakim
sees cwebber, sl on the speaker queue
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bengo
emacsen: Datashards isn't an AP protocol, but there are some AP implementors eager to integrate datashards into their projects. But that's a separate activity from AP. So is datashards discussion allowed/encouraged on socialhub.activitypub.rocks
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cwebber2
ack cwebber
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Zakim
cwebber, you wanted to answer emacsen about datashards and socialhub
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Zakim
sees sl on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: 1) socialhub.activitypub.rocks is going to be "the" AP forum and sicuss issues, then raise important topics to SocialCG as needed.
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bengo
cwebber2: 2) The people running socialhub, including hellekin and nightpool[m] want to bootstrap the forum with topics of interest to AP community before opening it to general public
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hellekin
+1
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bengo
cwebber2: One topic might be OCAP w/ AP, another might be Datashards w/ AP.
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Zakim
sees sl on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack sl007
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Zakim
sees sl on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
sl007: As hellikin already wrote on the forum, discourse will eventually implement AP, so the forum will be federated via AP. Also wrt datashards, there are categories in the forum, so to discuss datashards you could use #fediverse tag.
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cwebber2
q+ to suggest how emacsen could help with the datashards stuff
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack cwebber
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Zakim
cwebber, you wanted to suggest how emacsen could help with the datashards stuff
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bengo
sl007: In general the forum is interesting for all kinds of 'fediverse' people, so it would be useful to have a summary of datashards there.
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: I think emacsen and I should have a conversation offline about getting this stuff going on the forum. I could use help since I'm timestrapped, emacsen is too. So emacsen and I should coordinate offline ASAP after call.
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bengo
cwebber2: hellekin there has been a question about when forum is open to public. Do you want to respond to that?
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bengo
hellekin: There is a poll in the forum. nightpool[m] and I think we're ready to go. Other, we're not sure. We have options: e.g. 15th of October fixed date.
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bengo
hellekin: I'm okay with going as we are and launching right now.
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bengo
proposal... launch socialhub.activitypub.rocks right now
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bengo
cwebber2: My personal attitude is 'release early, release often'
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: But I leave it up to forum admins
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hellekin
q+
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Zakim
sees hellekin on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack hellekin
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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kaniini
(i can't see what is on it, as i haven't asked for an account yet)
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bengo
hellekin: Melody earlier didn't ask for invitation, but was wondering why people here couldn't participate
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bengo
q+
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Zakim
sees bengo on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack ben
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack bengo
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
bengo: I typed a proposal suggestion earlier
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kaniini
i couldn't hear any of that
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cwebber2
PROPOSED: Launch socialhub.activitypub.rocks as soon as possible
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bengo
+1
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rigelk
+1
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sl007
+1
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hellekin
+1
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jesopo
+1
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bengo
cwebber2: You can type +1 if you are in favor. -1 if you are against. or +0, 0, -0 if youa re wishy washy
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kaniini
+1
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cwebber2
emacsen: +1
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cwebber2
RESOLVED: Launch socialhub.activitypub.rocks as soon as possible
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hellekin
it's online :)
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: Let us enjoy having the liveness of it
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bengo
cwebber2: <claps>
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
TOPICS: Introductions
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cwebber2
TOPIC: Introductions
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bengo
cwebber2: I realize we have some people who are new to the call. It's a tradition to have everyone introduce themselves.
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cwebber2
bengo: hey I'm bengo / benjamin goering (sp?) and I used to be part of the socialwg and did two small implementations and happy to be here
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bengo
emacsen: Hi I'm serge (emacsen). This is my second call. Im very interested in AP, no current implementations, but I hope to soon. And I'm interested in tangentially related technologies like datashards
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bengo
hellekin: Hi I'm Hellikin. I run a nonprofit in Brussels caled petit singularity (?). I've been catherding, and work for a nonprofit that helps fund free software like ActivityPub
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jesopo
I'm jess. this is my second meeting. communication protocol nerd and writing a AP server implementation in an IRC that almost federates!
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jesopo
got the name bang on cwebber2
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jesopo
je so po
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hellekin
Petites Singularités participates in the NGI0 consortium (see https://nlnet.nl/discovery)
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bengo
kaniini: Hi. I'm me, kaniini. I work on Pleroma. I've also worked on Mastodon in the past. And also GNU Social very very very long time ago.
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bengo
kaniini: I also started the litepub group, which is kind of like the opposite of the SocialCG.
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bengo
melody: I'm melody. I'm working with a small team at my cooperative on potential AP implementation. I'm mostly concerned with anti-harassment and anti-abuse online.
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hellekin
melody: you're super welcome to the well-being.team :)
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bengo
rigelk: I'm rigelk. I'm working at a University in the East of France on Olki, a social platform for scientists that federates
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bengo
sebi: Hi this is Sebastian. You might know me from the Prague conference. Aside from that I'm doing redaktor, a multimedia CMS that is based on ActivityPub. I'm trying to push self-hosting.
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bengo
sebi: You can read about this in the forum's software category. Before, I worked as a photojournalist for 20 years, but unfortunately my camera sank to the Pacific ocean.
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bengo
sl007: I posted some grants on the forum. If you want to help with redaktor it uses TypeScript, node.js
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bengo
(hope sl007 is sedi)
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cwebber2
present+
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jesopo
present+
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melody
present+
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hellekin
present+
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rigelk
present+
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bengo
cwebber2: I forgot another thing to start the meeting with the bot. we need to type 'present+' if you are present
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bengo
present+
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cwebber2
present+ emacsen
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sl007
present+
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cwebber2
chair: cwebber2
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bengo
cwebber2: That way the logs will pick you up as having attended the meeting
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kaniini
present+
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bengo
cwebber2: Let's move forward to next topic: "Issue Triage from GitHub". First I want to talk about how we deal with it.
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bengo
cwebber2: We've handled github issues in other groups. We usually ask people to raise issues ahead of time, and if they don't, we just go through the tortuous process of going one by one
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bengo
cwebber2: Im interested in the metaconversation about how to handle these. The W3C Wiki is hard to edit for everyone and add topics to the meeting page
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bengo
cwebber2: So I wonder if there is another way to raise issues to the group. Maybe we could have a thread before the meetings, including issues.
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bengo
q+
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Zakim
sees bengo on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack bengo
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
scribe: cwebber2
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kaniini
q+
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
bengo: it seems like the github is where most of the conversations would happen for a few years, I found it disillusioning in the past that I would raise things and then they would never get addressed
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hellekin
q+
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Zakim
sees kaniini, hellekin on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
bengo: I think a real question is whether or not the ideal point of a forum to have "issue zero" level of issues, have them all resolved
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Zakim
sees kaniini, hellekin, cwebber on the speaker queue
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bengo
q?
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Zakim
sees kaniini, hellekin, cwebber on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees kaniini, hellekin, cwebber on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack kaniini
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Zakim
sees hellekin, cwebber on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
scribenick bengo
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bengo
kaniini: One of the larger frustrations I've noticed amongst implementors who try to interact with the SocialCG (which led to litepub becoming a thing)
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Zakim
sees hellekin on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: Traditionally there have been these meetings that people go to every once in awhile. People are supposed to open a GitHub issue. But then there are no facts or figures about when consensus is going to be reached.
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cwebber2
q+ to suggest how github should be used vs how socialhub should be used
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Zakim
sees hellekin, cwebber on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: e.g. someone files a bug, but there is never a response like 'we will discuss this issue at this time'
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bengo
kaniini: Now that there is this socialhub forum, I think that's a better way to go. What you can do is to create the issue on GitHub, which tracks the issue. Then we can have a corresponding discussion on the forum that references it.
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bengo
kaniini: That way there is a paper trail about what has been discussed, when consensus is made, and that way the entire reasoning behind each conslusion is clearly documented.
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bengo
kaniini: If we can leverage socialhub to coordinate how issues are addressed, I think that would be optimal.
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Zakim
sees hellekin, cwebber on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack hellekin
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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bengo
hellekin: I want to add to that. Discourse comes with GitHub integration. It's possible to allow discourse to write into GitHub
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rigelk
+1 hellekin
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack cwebber2
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack cwebber2
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack cwebber
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Zakim
cwebber, you wanted to suggest how github should be used vs how socialhub should be used
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: For me, socialhub.activitypub.rocks hopefully points to a much happier future for the issue tracker.
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bengo
cwebber2: I think we do want to aim for 'issues zero' and address/resolve all issues in some way
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bengo
cwebber2: (as an ideal, if not in practice)
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bengo
cwebber2: I think it was a mistake in this community that we kind of said 'now that the specs done, the issue tracker is both for discussion and issues we want resolved in the spec'
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bengo
cwebber2: It made it very hard to sort through issues that need action vs open places for discussion
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kaniini
+q
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: Now we have a big opportunity with socialhub forum to move not-actionable discussions to the forum. Before we worry about issue-zero, we should try to dequeue all conversational issues and move them to socialhub.activitypub.rocks
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bengo
cwebber2: I think it would be a clean separation
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack kaniini
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: It would be helpful to have volunteers to filter open issues and identify conversational ones that might be best moved to the forum
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cwebber2
q+ to respond to crickets in the socialcg
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: As implementors of large deployments of AP (e.g. Mastodon/Pleroma), we have at times attempted to engage the SocialCG for guidance, and it's basically crickets. Some issues are more urgently actioned than others.
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sl007
q+
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Zakim
sees cwebber, sl on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: I'd like there to be an 'urgent, actionable' status on these issues.
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bengo
kaniini: Sometimes when we've engaged the socialcg for guidance, it's because we have ongoing problems.
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bengo
kaniini: which means that we have users that are rightly angry because there is some defect in the way that the federated network works.
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bengo
kaniini: ocap, key rotation are things we're pushing for because people are asking for answers.
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bengo
kaniini: Ultimately what we need is some workflow for urgent items.
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bengo
kaniini: The best thing we could get out of socialcg is support for getting these things accomplished.
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bengo
q+
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Zakim
sees cwebber, sl, bengo on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack cwebber
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Zakim
cwebber, you wanted to respond to crickets in the socialcg
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Zakim
sees sl, bengo on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: In liu of that support, we sometimes resort to quick-fixes. And having a priority queue would help us avoid quick fixes.
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bengo
cwebber2: I think you're right that socialcg has not been the most responsive to issues people want to address. In some ways it's possible for the community to help us do better. You're right there could be better workflow, which we could discuss on the forum.
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bengo
cwebber2: Here is my interim workflow proposal: If it's a conversational issue, post on socialhub.activitypub.rocks. It's an issue with a spec, raise it on the issue tracker.
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bengo
cwebber2: If one of those things looks like we need to have a conversation, raising it for these calls would be helpful, and say that explicitly so it gets on the agenda.
puck joined the channel
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bengo
cwebber2: We've had these meetings in the past, and the agendas are empty. I think not being able to edit the wiki has been a barrier. But we can work around that with people saying on issues or forum posts as 'please put on agenda for next call'
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bengo
cwebber2 +1
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bengo
cwebber2: Was that a sufficient response kaniini ?
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Zakim
sees sl, bengo on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: yeah i think we're on the same page. As long as there's a workflow for something when things are on fire we need a solution now.
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bengo
kaniini: Traditionally we haven't had that.
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bengo
cwebber2: Let's work on it
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Zakim
sees bengo on the speaker queue
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bengo
hopes sebi is sl007
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cwebber2
bengo, yes
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cwebber2
ack bengo
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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jesopo
where's the issue tracker?
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kaniini
+q
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
jesopo, yes
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jesopo
thanks
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cwebber2
bengo: there's a lot of issues that have a lot of conversation but don't move quite to something actionable
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cwebber2
bengo: most of them aren't things that are quite at a point to be able to be yes/no voted on a spec change
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack kaniini
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: I agree many issues aren't actionable. That's one thing that makes litepub group different from socialcg. It's more close-door, but when we release something it's more in the form of a full specification.
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bengo
kaniini: That's kind of due to the background of how that group formed. But I think we can document a lot of what we've learned in litepub (e.g. how to write a good specification), and that help us move toward actionable specification on the issue tracker. Like how IETF does RFCs
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: I think if we can shift toward that model for SocialCG, it could be really productive
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bengo
kaniini +1
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bengo
kaniini: (without the closed-door aspect)
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bengo
cwebber2: closed-door wrt socialcg or litepub?
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bengo
kaniini: litepub. The way litepub has made most specs, some developers in the group get together, talk privately, and someone makes a spec (usually me)
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bengo
kaniini: e.g. pixelfed and pleroma work well on many topics. Mostly because we get together, bang out interop, and release something
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bengo
kaniini: That's how our work on OCAP got released
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bengo
kaniini: That's what I mean about closed-door: one or two people get together and bang out a draft and get it done
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bengo
kaniini: socialcg seems to be the opposite: conversation, consensus, etc. I think we need the best of both worlds.
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sl007
[lost connection]
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sl007
did i understand right that implementations having most users should
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sl007
I do understand the anger of "great implementations"
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sl007
First off and don't get me wrong
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sl007
be treated first?
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bengo
kaniini: COnversation and consensus discussions a solid draft, not vague ideas.
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sl007
then it raises a broader question to me which is about democracy
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sl007
base democracy is important for the AP community.
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sl007
[ the same than with one very great very white man currently ]
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sl007
I just mean : Diversity means to put weaker on the same level and
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sl007
And we should treat Issues important for protocol itself first …
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Zakim
sees cwebber on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: There are people who come in and are idea people, but someone also has to turn ideas into specs. If you let idea people dominate the conversation without having actual spec-work, without being able to prove things out in an actual document that has revision/thought-process, then you ultimately hit the ground but the wheels are spinning instead of actual traction
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bengo
kaniini: What I think is necessary is balance between ideas and hardened polished drafts.
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cwebber2
sl007, I will relay your statement after kaniini finishes
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bengo
kaniini: I think that socialhub could come into that. What we can do is have threads on socialhub for ideas. Then people who know how to turn ideas into specifications can do so.
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bengo
cwebber2: <encourages to look above at what sl007 typed>
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kaniini
+q
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Zakim
sees cwebber, kaniini on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack cwebber2
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Zakim
sees cwebber, kaniini on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack cwebber
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: I think the call to make things more actionable is being said all around. Sounds like there in consensus. And that everyone also wants a place for conversations.
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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hellekin
cwebber2: I would help, but need access to the repo
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bengo
cwebber2: Any volunteers to identify conversational issues and propose they be moved to the socialhub forum
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hellekin
cwebber2: for Oauth access from Discourse
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cwebber2
ACTION: give hellekin authority to open/close issues on activitypub
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RRSAgent
records action 1
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Zakim
sees kaniini on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
ack kaniini
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
Can we start a socialhub forum thread for a megaproposal to close a list of github issues an dencourage refiling as forum threads? People can then raise concerns (if any) and we can vote all at once
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bengo
kaniini: I want to address what sl007 said about democracy
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cwebber2
bengo, I am completely +1 on that. can you do it? :)
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hellekin
bengo: sure
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cwebber2
q+ emacsen
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Zakim
sees emacsen on the speaker queue
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bengo
kaniini: In practice I agree. But also we're trying to make something that people depend on in the real world. So a balance is necessary. Can't have complete democracy without the actual userbase [having a say].
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hellekin
bengo: you may paste the URL to the issues list on Github in the topic title, then describe the topic. There's a #todo tag ;)
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bengo
kaniini: Implementations of all sizes and maturity level should be equally at the table. At the same time, when you have bad actors in the fediverse going around harassing people utilizing security vulnerabilities in the design of the protocol or caused by unclearness, I do believe that those issues do need more urgent triage
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bengo
kaniini: Because the fediverse is based on trust, but if users cannot trust that their data is being processed in a secure way, then there is no fediverse anymore. Or maybe there is, but people wont use it if they don't trust it.
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sl007
About "security issues" is what I would strongly consider as "we should treat Issues important for protocol itself first …"
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cwebber2
note kaniini that we are running over time
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bengo
kaniini: In terms of implementations needing to come to consensus on an extension, I think they can just follow the new socialcg process we're working on.
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hellekin
kaniini: do you think we need a private space to discuss these security issues urgently?
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Zakim
sees emacsen on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
PROPOSAL: extend meeting by 10 minutes to wrap up this conversation and then schedule next meeting
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bengo
+1
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kaniini
+1
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sl007
q+
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Zakim
sees emacsen, sl on the speaker queue
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rigelk
+1
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hellekin
+1
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melody
+1
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sl007
+1
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cwebber2
emacsen: +1
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jesopo
+1
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cwebber2
RESOLVED: extend meeting by 10 minutes to wrap up this conversation and then schedule next meeting
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kaniini
hellekin: i don't. because by the time these security issues are being discussed, they are likely being exploited in the wild already
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cwebber2
ack emacsen
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Zakim
sees sl on the speaker queue
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sl007
q-
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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hellekin
sounds good to me
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bengo
emacsen: To volunteer to help triage issues, should I coordinate with hellekin
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bengo
cwebber2: Yeah and bengo
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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kaniini
(and besides, there is litepub group for mature implementations to privately discuss security matters)
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cwebber2
TOPIC: Next meeting scheduling
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bengo
cwebber2: We had a discussion about litepub how and how to work on specs and stuff, and think we might continue that discussion in next meeting. For now let's talk scheduling next meeting
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bengo
cwebber2: A couple weeks ago we discussed doing this every other week, not just monthly.
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bengo
cwebber2: We had also discussed switching between wednesdays and saturdays. Because some people can't make some days
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bengo
cwebber2: I'd like a vote on those topics
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cwebber2
PROPOSED: Continue bi-weekly (every second week) meetings of the SocialCG for the interim
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bengo
+1
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rigelk
+1
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jesopo
+1
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hellekin
¿1
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kaniini
+1
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sl007
+1
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hellekin
+1
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cwebber2
emacsen: +1
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jesopo
i think hellekin was aiming for some kinda cheat code
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cwebber2
RESOLVED: Continue bi-weekly (every second week) meetings of the SocialCG for the interim
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hellekin
yeah, wrong keymap :P
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cwebber2
PROPOSED: Continue with rotation between wednesday and saturday meetings, with next meeting occuring on October 26th
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hellekin
+1
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bengo
-0
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jesopo
+0
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cwebber2
emacsen: +0
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rigelk
+1
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sl007
+1
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jesopo
might be more palatable if there were a reminder system
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kaniini
+0
#
melody
+0
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rigelk
jesopo, there are now events on the forum
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cwebber2
RESOLVED: Continue with rotation between wednesday and saturday meetings, with next meeting occuring on October 26th
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jesopo
does that send out emails?
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jesopo
or so
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hellekin
if we put the meetings on socialhub, there's an agenda
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rigelk
not that I know of - hellekin ?
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bengo
cwebber2: This raises a meta-conversation about how do we schedule meetings in the future across wiki/forum/irc.
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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bengo
cwebber2: Let's discuss later. Until then, people should feel free to propose topics on the forum, and I will move them to the wiki
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Zakim
sees no one on the speaker queue
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cwebber2
Zakim, bye
Zakim left the channel
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Zakim
leaving. As of this point the attendees have been cwebber, jesopo, melody, hellekin, rigelk, bengo, emacsen, sl, kaniini
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kaniini
i would also like to see a working group established for security / anti-abuse concerns (and mitigation) in the protocol itself
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cwebber2
RRSAgent, create minutes
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RRSAgent
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2019/10/09-social-minutes.html cwebber2
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cwebber2
RRSAgent, bye
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RRSAgent
I'm staying, cwebber2; no access has been specified for the meeting record
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kaniini
for example, spam is a serious problem right now
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bengo
rigelk: Historically, there are 'topics' section on this wiki (if you have an account): https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2019-10-09
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lain_soykaf
*amateur and rare porn lover liked this*
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jesopo
um
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kaniini
lain_soykaf: well, that spam issue is pretty easily resolved by just blocking sinblr/humblr ;)
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kaniini
hellekin: how do i get this pleroma swag that lanodan has on socialhub?
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kaniini
Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges
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kaniini
:)
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cwebber2
I put up https://www.w3.org/wiki/SocialCG/2019-10-09/minutes based on my irc logs again because insufficient access privileges :P
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cwebber2
I need to email w3c staff anyway so
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cwebber2
I'll ask about it when I do so
tantek joined the channel
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bengo
cwebber2: I missed discussion last week about 'evergreen' spec status. If there isn't already a forum post about it, will you please make one?
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cwebber2
bengo: yes
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kaniini
hellekin: ping again about socialhub pleroma forum thingy
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kaniini
(:
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hellekin
kaniini: I'm on it
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hellekin
kaniini: you got it
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kaniini
thx
sl007, sl0071, dmitriz and hi joined the channel
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hi
hello!
Guest84 joined the channel