#social 2021-01-21

2021-01-21 UTC
Luke, lanodan, sl007, dmitriz, pIOt, jacky, hellekin, timbl, includeals, tenma, someonewithpc, KjetilK, tantek and RaphJ joined the channel
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@keithjgrant ↩️ These standards already exist. What a waste of resources in service of NIH syndrome. https://www.w3.org/TR/social-web-protocols/ (twitter.com/_/status/1352318473020424193)
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tantek wow that tweet was deleted (relatively) quickly
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tantek now I wonder what it was in-reply-to, in case anyone had it open
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sl007 tantel : I had it open and informed the author that twitter has named ActivityPub. Then it was deleted.
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sl007 tantek (sorry) ^
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tantek do you remember who or what it was in response to?
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sl007 of course ! https://twitter.com/bluesky/status/1352302821140549632
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Loqi [@bluesky] Working virtually through the pandemic, this group self-organized, invited additional experts, and created a review of the ecosystem around protocols for social media. You can read it here: https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/twitter.modular.im/981b258141aa0b197804127cd2f7d298757bad20
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nightpool[m] has twitter named ActivityPub? the last I heard they were still considering proposals
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sl007 "I do not know", please ask Chris !
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sl007 The original question was in response to the report which is linked above …
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tantek 🙄 yet another "review" of something about the web ... in PDF. Do folks publishing these things not see how such actions are reputationally disqualifying as to their expertise to be speaking on such a matter?
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tantek They might as well post something about decentralization on Medium.
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sl007 Look at the report. If they list diaspora under "applications" and not "protocols" - I would not call it "expertise" ;)
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tantek except there are a few names on the report of smart folks that hang out here, like csarven, that I assume had no input into this being produced as a static PDF instead of an actual HTML web page that could be live updated as necessary
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sl007 yes, same
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sl007 I mean they wrote it on matrix, maybe matrix only got PDF export ;)
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sl007 But also agreed that csarven and chris are "smart folks"
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aaronpk wonders how they managed to completely fail to include any indieweb protocols in the list?
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aaronpk i know cwebber2` and csarven know about webmention and such
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sl007 aaronpk agreed seeAlso https://twitter.com/sandhawke/status/1337024696706080768
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Loqi [@sandhawke] @evanpro Friendly amendment: ALL the @W3C Recommended social web protocols. They'd be highly motivated to evolve the standards, but that's okay.
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sl007 + my response
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sl007 But hey, the world population thinks activitypub === mastodon - there seems to be little interest in telling the truth …
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sl007 HOPE!
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sl007 and considering that I begged the SOLID people for joining any SocialCG meeting (for a reason) report says “and Solid does not yet have a social network application” which is unfortunately true now …
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cwebber2` oh nice, good to see that document live... Jay Graber put a ton of work into it. FWIW per my involvement in that document, it was basically that they asked me clarifying questions about activitypub, and I answered them.
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cwebber2` (busy on a deadline though, so can't really chat much more atm)
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csarven All, please take what I say with a grain of salt because I haven't been actively involved in that document as much as I would've liked and also I don't speak for anyone or the report. I've found out about this report (in PDF) earlier.. although I was aware of the draft in the works. As far as I know, the folks that are leading / working on the research/documentation are genuinely trying to understand the initiatives/projects that are out there.
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csarven As for all the discussion around on "why don't they use X because it is 'standardised'" .. again, not speaking for anyone.. but the group that's documenting are not implementing. I don't know if/what happens exactly after.
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csarven They mean well! For the content on Solid, it was mostly pieced together by people that's not in/around the Solid project. I've given some high level descriptions and links long ago but indeed there are many inaccuracies and old links etc.. But this is not on them, I didn't get around to help out properly. Any way.. I believe feedback is much welcome so take it as draft and get involved as you see fit.
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sl007 cwebber2 https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/21/22242718/twitter-bluesky-decentralized-social-media-team-project-update
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tantek thanks for the insights csarven
timbl joined the channel
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sl007 yes, thank you “Although not part of the ActivityPub spec, in practice WebFinger is used to discover actor profiles.” meaning also practice === mastodon – ROFLCOPTER
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GregoryKlyushnikov But at this point everyone is testing their implementations against Mastodon first and foremost
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GregoryKlyushnikov But then Mastodon actually breaks the AP spec by using the username@domain as a unique id, as opposed to the actual ID in the object
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GregoryKlyushnikov I'm going to make changeable usernames at some point. Yes, that will break Mastodon. Not that I care much.
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sl007 full ack !
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sl007 tantek at least: “Bridgy Fedis a project to connect IndieWeb sites with the ActivityPub and OStatus federated networks.”
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tantek good find sl007! thank you
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sl007 funny - just copied and pasted it: Visually it says "Bridgy Fed" not "Fedis" - the magic of PDF ;)
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aaronpk pdf--
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Loqi pdf has -1 karma in this channel over the last year (-2 in all channels)
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sl007 lol
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GregoryKlyushnikov And I thought bots that do weird things were a telegram thing
dmitriz joined the channel
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sl007 also: “The IndieWeb protocols and community are also related […]”
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aaronpk irc bots have been doing weird things long before telegram existed :)
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sl007 To be true about the mastodon section they exactly share my critcisms. Apart from centralized identity:
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sl007 “For user verification …”, “through the unilateral decisions of an admin” (totally intransparent), “heavy burdens on admins to address harassment and spam”, “no search”
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sl007 “Anyone can run a Mastodon instance, but in practice, the majority of users have concentrated within a few” - very good document!
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sl007 please everyone, attend the SocialCG meeting on Saturday: https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/2021-01-23-socialcg-meeting-new-fediverse-users/1305
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tantek kevinmarks++ for https://twitter.com/kevinmarks/status/1352386164959944704
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Loqi kevinmarks has 1 karma in this channel over the last year (63 in all channels)
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Loqi [@kevinmarks] @arcalinea @bluesky This looks like it was written on a wiki, yet published as a pdf. Is it available in a more web-friendly form anywhere to send notes on particular sections, or a repo that accepts issue and pull requests?
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tantek csarven++ thanks for getting some actual consensus-based multi-project standards represented in the doc. you too cwebber2++
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Loqi csarven has 1 karma over the last year
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Loqi cwebber2 has 1 karma over the last year
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tantek also pdf--
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Loqi pdf has -2 karma in this channel over the last year (-3 in all channels)
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sl007 rhiaro++ for all the incredible work behind the stage (e.g. SocialCG)
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Loqi rhiaro has 4 karma in this channel over the last year (7 in all channels)